Advice Needed for my 2+ yr old Chameleon - Please help

[Guest 144]

Hi,

2 years ago, I adopted a baby veiled chameleon from someone who was moving and couldnt take it with her. She told me she has a "complete setup" After getting the chameleon, and reading these forums, I found it was vastly inadequate. I purchased tons of new stuff for him when I got him, and have been taking care of him since.

In the last few weeks, I noticed he was having trouble with tongue accuracy, and then yesterday he wouldnt open one eye. Today he still wont open the eye, and I cant see any blockage.

Here are pictures of when I first got him
https://www.chameleonforums.com/meet-chamillionaire-45986/

And here is the Help Info from the top of the forum, and attached are current pics I just took. Any advise is appreciated. Thank you

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Veiled Chameleon, adopted from someone who couldnt take care of it when he was approx 6 months old. I have had him for 2 years now

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Very rarely these days. When he was young he would let me hold him, but as he got older he got aggressive and would hiss and bite. So to not stress him, I stopped handling him unless its for a cage cleaning.

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
I feed him 5-6 large crickets daily. I keep the crickets in a cricket keeper with two small dishes that have Flukers High Calcium Cricket Diet and the other has Zilla Cricket Drink with Calcium


Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
ZooMEd Reptivite without D3 and with D3. I use the without D3 weekly, and the With D3 Monthly


Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
I have a MistKing Starter misting system, with one mist nozzle. It goes off 3 times a day for 45 seconds. I also mist him and the enclosure manually for 1 minute twice a day. 2-3 times a week I give him a very light mist of Zilla humidifying spray. When the mister goes off, I see him move towards the leaves afterwards and drink with his tongue. Same thing when I manually mist.


Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
Poo is black bean shaped pellets, hard in texture. Pee is Yellow/white "crispy" pellets (most are white and yellow) He has not been tested for parasites

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Have had problems prior with his tongue not catching food, or missing. Nursed him back through daily supplements, but condition returned several months later. Read you shouldnt supplement daily becuase it can give them too much vitamins that can cause problems, so I reduced to once weekly.


Cage Info:
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
4'x2'x2' Reptibreeze screen mesh cage

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Cheapo Heat lamp clamp on fixture, with a ZooMed 75w Repti Basking Spot Lamp with UVA. Sits 1" above top of cage so he cant touch the rim and get burned. Also ZooMed 18" Reptisun 5.0 457nm horizontally across top of cage.

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps? Cage Floor: 71 (daytime)
Basking Spot: 87.0 Lowest overnight temperature is 70 Temperatures measured with digital zoomed thermometer probes

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
30% in between misting, gets higher when the Mist System goes off. Measured with Petco adhesive Humidity meter

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? Only Fake plants and vines for reptiles

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Cage is located in an alcove in my office. It is a 4'x2.5' recessed area that the cage tucks into. No fans or vents blowing on him. There is one central heat vent in the room, a few feet away from his cage and not directed at it. No traffic nearby. Just me sitting in a chair with my back to him sometimes. Top of cage is 3.5' from ceiling of alcove. This room has no AC or AC Vents or Fans.

Location - Where are you geographically located?
Northern New Jersey

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about -
He started having accuracy problems with his tongue, and would miss his food. He would keep trying and would eventually get all 5 crickets within about 30 minutes. I then noticed his tounge wouldnt flick as far as it used to, and he would come down to his bowl and eat with his mouth (as opposed to using his tongue). He would still hunt crickets with his tounge that escaped the bowl by climbing the walls. Yesterday I noticed one eye wouldnt open, and today it is the same. I know I am probably not supplementing enough, but dont know when to use D3 vs no D3, and feared oversupplementing. I have called a vet for reptiles but am waiting for them to call me back. What can I do in the meantime for his eye?

He seems like he is lethargic today and does not want to move or hunt. He has fresh crickets dusted with reptivite without d3, but is not showing interest in eating. He did drink just a few minutes ago when I sprayed down his cage.

 

[kinyonga]

Tongue issues can be due to injury or infection or MBD or even dehydration.

Regarding supplements...
Exposure to the UVB will allow the chameleon to produce D3 so that it can use the calcium in its diet for building bones, for muscle contractions and other things.

Appropriate temperatures will aid in digestion and thus indirectly in nutrient absorption.

Since most of the insects we use to feed them have a poor ratio of calcium to phos its important to dust them with a phos - free calcium powder at most feedings to make up for it.

Dusting twice a month with the phos - free calcium / D3 powder ensures that the chameleon gets some D3 without overdosing it and leaving it to produce the rest from its exposure to the UVB. D3 from supplements can build up in the system and lead to health issues. D3 and vitamin A are antagonistic to each other and need to be in balance.

Dusting twice a month with the vitamin powder that contains a beta carotene source of vitamin A will ensure that the chameleon gets its vitamins without overdosing the vitamin A. Beta carotene ks a prOformed source of vitamin A and won't build up in the system like prEformed vitamin A will...so this leaves it up to the owner to decide whether to use the prEformed vitamin A or not. There is controversy as to whether or not all/any chameleons can convert the beta carotene...so some people give their chameleons a bit of prEformed vitamin A once in a while.

Gutloading and feeding the insects well is also important.

Calcium, D3, phos and vitamin A are all players in bone health and other systems in the chameleon and need to be in balance. You need to look at the supplements, what you feed the insects and what you feed the chameleon when trying to balance them.


If you can't figure out what is going on with the eye and tongue quickly then it will be a good idea to take it to the vet's.

 

[Guest 144]

Vet appt booked for tomorrow afternoon. Going to check for blockage, nutrition, and parasites. Hopefully we get this guy back on track! I have observed him drink twice in the last few hours so hopefully that will hold him over until tomorrow since he isnt eating.

 

[laurie]

I hope things go well at the vet. Even after the vet visit we can help you with a few things to do for your guy. Gut loading his feeders better and getting him a couple nice live plants will help. Also I personally like a dripper available to all my chams. Most chams will drink if they see drops of water hitting plant leaves. A very big problem for chameleons is not getting enough water, so I use better safe than sorry.

I will be waiting to hear how the vet visit went. Good luck

 

[Guest 144]

Ok so the vet said he thinks that the eye not opening isnt "the problem" its "a symptom" of a developing problem. He thinks I caught the very early stages of MBD. He said the bones still seem ok, but he said this is metabolic and will develop into MBD.

He reccomended I increase my basking temperature, keep the chameleon more hydrated, and to dust at every feeding. He wasnt able to reccomend a brand of dust or a routine though.

I just bought some supplies:
New 18" Reptisun 5.0 bulb (fits 24" fixture"
35 Medium Superworms
Feeding bowl for worms
Rep-Cal Phosphorus free calcium with Vitamin D ultrafine powder (contains D3)
Rep-Cal Herptivite with beta caratine multivitamin powder

I also dug up a ceramic heat bulb that raised my basking spot to 99 degrees.

So, I am going to keep the chameleon in a smaller enclosure since he has difficulty seeing and walking. Will put a small bowl in with crickets dusted in the Herptivite, and will hook up the drip system. Hopefully I can get this guy to eat and recover.

Please let me know if there is anything else I need, and if you have any suggestions. Thanks =)

 

[Elizadolots]

You should get a calcium without D3 as well. Typically this board recommends calcium without D3 at every feeding, D3 twice a month. As you are trying to head off a problem, a bit more D3 would probably not be amiss.

I strongly suggest you get him outside in natural sunlight for a few hours a week if at all possible. Naturally produced D3 is better for them than D3 supplements.

 

[Kate]

Glad you have got vet involved. IMO a basking temp of 99 in a smaller viv seems quite high but I'm on expert so hopefully someone more experienced will advise. Also do you plan to let temps drop overnight?

 

[Elizadolots]

Oh, I missed that. Yes, I agree, 99 would be too high. If you had a 6 foot screen cage, you could go 99 or 100, without a problem, but for that enclosure, I don't think you want the basking temperature to be over 90. (I thought the 87 was pretty good)

Also, letting the cage cool down is important. 70 is on the high side but probably acceptable. He could easily handle it going down to the mid 50s. A cool dark night is a good thing for your chameleon.

 

[Thezillaman21]

looking at the photo would suggest he is not getting enough calcium. his casque seems small and his back legs look alittle bent

 

[Guest 144]

Just fed him 5 dusted superworms (used herptivite). Poor little guy, had to use tongs to feed him since his accuracy is off.

I have him in a smaller enclosure, to make it easier for him to walk around and to give him a better chance of catching food. I left two dusted superworms in a small bowl, which he just saw and is now attempting to catch.

I will monitor and hand feed until he can catch prey on his own, and then will return him to the normal habitat.

My question is are my current supplements enough? or is there another type I should be using daily?

 

[Guest 144]

Calcium without D3, I have that! Reptivite without D3. Calcium is on the analysis of included vitamins.
Calcium is also in the Herptivite I just gave him a few minutes ago.
Ill start with that tomorrow.

Right now I have him in a small travel reptile holder, the lid is vented. It has a fake leaf cluster, a wood tree trunk thing, and a mealworm bowl. Heat lamp is above it but with it being so small, he doesnt have a cool spot to go to.

 

[armyrec1]

If I remember correctly...repti worms are a good source of calcium too right?

 

[Elizadolots]

Repti worms (aka Calci worms and Phoenix Worms) are an excellent source of calcium. You need to find a plain calcium without D3, not substitute the vitamin powder. Excesses of some vitamins can be as bad as not having enough.

You might need to order the calcium online. An alternative to hold you over is to get a cuttlebone (sold for birds, I can find them in my grocery store) and grind that up super fine.

 

[Guest 144]

Ok, so from what I read and gather from searching the forums...there are 3 supplements that should be dusted on the crickets.

Daily - Calcium without D3 ( I have zoomed reptivite without d3)
1-2x month - Calcium with D3 (I have Rep-Cal Calcium with D3, phosphorus free)
1-2x a month - Herptivite (I have this)

I also decided the small enclosure is too tiny to maintain a basking and a cool spot, and was becoming hard to setup. I have moved him back into the 4' enclosure, with a new Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb. My heat lamp ZooMed 75w Repti Basking Spot Lamp with UVA is only a few weeks old as well, so I think its safe to say lighting wise I will be fine. I am setting up the dripper now, and adjusting my mist king to go off more times per day.

Can anyone give me a link to the remaining products I need? And to help him recover, what should I dust with? The RepCal Calcium?

 

[Elizadolots]

Isn't the Reptivite a vitamin supplement? You don't want to use that daily.

 

[Guest 144]

I did some reading of the stickies and found this supplementation schedule

Adults- Calcium w/o D3 once a week
Multivitamin once a month

I understand this is the normal supplementation schedule, but at this point should I be using the Calcium without D3 daily while he recovers? Should I stick with Herptivite, or should I use the Reptivite without D3? Or should I order Sticky Tongues MinerAll Outdoor?

I just ordered 100 large phoenix worms to help get some pure calcium ingested.

Heres some pics I just took as well

 

[kinyonga]

Does the reptivite without D3 in it have vitamin A in it? If so, what kind? Beta carotene or what?

When a chameleon has MBD you have to bring the calcium and other nutrients I mentioned in my previous post concerning bone health back into balance and then supplement, gutload/feed the insects, use proper lighting and provide appropriate temperatures properly to keep them there so the MBD won't come back.

 

[Guest 144]

Does the reptivite without D3 in it have vitamin A in it? If so, what kind? Beta carotene or what?

When a chameleon has MBD you have to bring the calcium and other nutrients I mentioned in my previous post concerning bone health back into balance and then supplement, gutload/feed the insects, use proper lighting and provide appropriate temperatures properly to keep them there so the MBD won't come back.

Thanks for the reply!

Proper lighting - Believe to be under control. New Reptisun 5.0, and a 2-3 week old UVA basking spot lamp

Temperature - Basking spot is 90, bottom of cage is 70.

Feeding - Was crickets only prior to today. Vet reccomend varying the diet. Bought large superworms, dusted them and fed 5 today. Ordered Phoenix worms, they will arrive this week. Was gutloading crickets with flukers high calcium cricket diet. I will start taking the feeders out the night before, place in a separate container with fresh carrots and lettuce. After they eat that all night, I will feed them in the morning. Just dont know if I should be dusting at this time, and if so, with what product.

All I think I need to get into check is the supplements. Regarding the Reptivite without D3, it does have Vitamin A, but Im not sure the form of it. Here is a link to a page with info on it

http://www.zoomed.com/db/products/E...yeSI7czoyMDoiVml0YW1pbnMvU3VwcGxlbWVudHMiO30=

I also have the Rep-Cal phosphorus free calcium with D3. THis has vitamin A from beta caratine, but since it has D3 I wont use it very often.

 

[Guest 144]

So today he has both eyes closed. He will open one eye slightly for a few seconds, but it closes before I can feed him a superworm with tongs. He has been hanging out in his basking spot.

I just changed my Reptisun 5.0 yesterday, so are there chances that hes resting and absorbing UVB and keeping warm? What should I do, Im very nervous that I'm going to lose him.

He did eat 5 dusted superworms yesterday, and I was hoping that if I could repeat this daily I could nurse him back to health. Please help and offer any suggestions you may have.

 

[Kate]

Supplements can be a pain to get your head round. I don't know the brand names of the ones you are using. You need to check the labels and use plain calcium with nothing else in it daily and calcium with d3 every two weeks and calcium with vits every two weeks. Hope that helps. I wonder why you are using two uv lights. I would keep your reptisun and use an ordinary household bulb for basking.