Advice please

[LulaJune]

First of all, thank you for any thoughts, ideas or help in advance. I’m sorry this is so long. And I probably went overboard with info and pics, sorry again. I also have no idea why the pics aren’t straight. I took them straight with my iPad.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled (Lula June) about 8-9 months old. We’ve had her about 2-3 months. We got her from Pet Co.
• 
  
• Handling - Every day, multiple times a day, until Wednesday.
• 
  
• Feeding - I offer her crickets, meal worms, super worms, horn worms, Dubia roaches and wax worms. She seems to be a picky eater. One week she’ll eat worms the next week only crickets. I offer most of them to her every day, most often twice a day. I want her to eat fresh and gut loaded feeders. I feed her as much as she’ll eat. She hasn’t been one to over eat, if anything, she under eats. I keep all the feeders in separate containers. I even have a hospital they can relax in for a day after she doesn’t eat them. Lol, sad but true. The containers are clear hard plastic bins with tops that have slits in them for air flow. I feed them cucumbers, apples, oranges, sweet potatoes and carrots fresh every day. They all also have Flukers high calcium cricket diet and Mazuri Better Bug Gut Loading Diet that I got from the vet. I put those in water bottle tops and bury them in the oats so they are flush and the feeders can get to them. I also have wet cotton balls in with the crickets. Not dripping wet but wet.
• 
  
• Supplements - Zoo Med’s Reptivite with D3 4-5 days a week. I now know that with D3 should only be given once every 2 weeks. I’m trying to find a good supplement without D3 and a multi vitamin. If I remember correctly the without D3 should be given like 5 days a week and the multi vitamin should be given once every 2 weeks opposite the with D3 schedule? I also, very lightly, dust her feeder bowl with the with D3 so that the worms and roaches can’t crawl out. No idea if this actually works?
• 
  
• Watering - We have a ReptiRain set to mist once an hour for 15 seconds. I also hand mist 2-3 times a day for about a minute each time. I have a DIY dripper that works perfectly. I also treat all of the water with ReptiSafe. I don’t see her drink so lately I’ve been giving her water by hand. I have to force the first drop or 2 into her mouth (VERY gently) then she drinks without issue until she’s done.
• 
  
• Fecal Description - Her poop and urates look good now. This has been an up and down issue. She was eating moss so we removed it all from her cage. Like I said, she’ll eat then she won’t so then she doesn’t poop and I always freak out and take her to the vet. Her poops have been consistently dark brown. Her urates have been all over the place. But, again, now that I’m hand watering her they are a nice white color with a light yellowish tip. I asked the vet if she needed to be tested for parasites and she said no.
• 
  
• History - Ever since we brought her home she’s loved to be out of her enclosure. She seemed anxious almost to get out. Like she couldn’t get out fast enough. She was dark in her enclosure most of the time, now most of the time she’s light green (since we moved her cage) and when sleeping and out of the enclosure. She loved to just hang out on my shoulder and walk around on our couch. We have 3 cats so we watch her like hawks. Like I said, we’ve had our concerns/issues and have brought her to the vet a few times. Most recently she got a clean bill of health. The doc said she had lots of follicles and that eggs may be on the way? We have an egg laying bin that we keep clean (including sand). When she’s in her enclosure and doesn’t want to come out or be disturbed she’ll turn kind of sideways and puff up a little like don’t touch me. It doesn’t seem too traumatic to me. At that point she doesn’t get dark. She’s never bitten us (knock wood).

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Zoo Med Reptibreeze open air cage. Metal mesh screen on all 4 sides and top. 24x24x48. We put plexiglass on 3 sides about 1/2 way up to help with leaking.
• 
  
• Lighting - My hubs gets up about 7am and turns all her lights on. I turn them all off at night. We have, for main heat, the Exo Terra Intense Basking Spot 120v 60hz 150w. The Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 uvb self ballasted lamp 2u 13w AC 120v 80hz 0.14a. And the Zoo Med Classified UL 100w 120v heat emitter model CE-100 vivarium heater LF-10.
• 
  
• Temperature - Daytime is 100° at the very top/basking spot with 45% humidity. Bottom is 73° 53% humidity. Unfortunately I don’t have overnight temps or humidity. We keep our house at 72° year round. We have a dual temp and humidity gauge at the top and 1 temp gauge and 1 humidity in the middle. Neither are digital.
• 
  
• Humidity - Sorry, I jumped ahead on the last question. Like I said we have an automatic mister, a dripper and I hand mist 2-3 times a day until everything is dripping.
• 
  
• Plants - We have one live pathos and one live corn plant, the rest are fake.
• 
  
• Placement - Her cage is in our living room. I’ve included a pic so you can see about how far away she is from our couch. Like I said, until recently she loved being out of her cage. And just to mention it she appears to be a heavy sleeper and she’s on a pretty normal schedule. I also put two towels to cover where she sleeps so she isn’t bothered by the light from the tv. And it’s just me and the hubs so nothing crazy going on. You can see (the VERY dusty, ? sorry) vent above her cage, is doesn’t blow out but it gently sucks in. We had her in the dining room but she was dark all the time in her cage so we moved her to her new location. I think you can see in the pic but the top of her cage is almost to the ceiling.
• 
  
• Location - St. Louis, MO.

Current Problem - Wednesday I had her on my shoulder. I always wear a long sleeve shirt so she has something to grab onto. Well she slid right off the side of me and landed on our tile floor. I don’t know if she hit the counter on the way down. She landed on her stomach on all fours. I immediately put her in her cage and have kept a close eye on her since then. She’s acting normal and crawling around her cage with no issues. I can’t tell exactly how much she’s eating. I’ve hand fed her a few crickets and I have worm bowls but I can’t tell if she’s eating the worms or if they are escaping? The only thing is now she won’t come out of her cage. Not for me or the hubs. As of today she’ll let my hand get close to her and lightly rub her leg or under her chin. She still let’s you know if she don’t wanna be messed with by leaning sideways. Just to mention it, she hasn’t been crawling around the bottom of the cage or seemed restless or listless. So I don’t think eggs are an issue right now. Hopefully.

Thanks again. ?

 

[Gingero]

Welcome to the forums Love her name! Feedback inline

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Female veiled (Lula June) about 8-9 months old. We’ve had her about 2-3 months. We got her from Pet Co.
• 
  
• Handling - Every day, multiple times a day, until Wednesday. That seems like excessive handling to me. Even once a day is a lot.
• 
  
• Feeding - I offer her crickets, meal worms, super worms, horn worms, Dubia roaches and wax worms. She seems to be a picky eater. One week she’ll eat worms the next week only crickets. I offer most of them to her every day, most often twice a day. I want her to eat fresh and gut loaded feeders. I feed her as much as she’ll eat. She hasn’t been one to over eat, if anything, she under eats. I keep all the feeders in separate containers. I even have a hospital they can relax in for a day after she doesn’t eat them. Lol, sad but true. The containers are clear hard plastic bins with tops that have slits in them for air flow. I feed them cucumbers, apples, oranges, sweet potatoes and carrots fresh every day. They all also have Flukers high calcium cricket diet and Mazuri Better Bug Gut Loading Diet that I got from the vet. I put those in water bottle tops and bury them in the oats so they are flush and the feeders can get to them. I also have wet cotton balls in with the crickets. Not dripping wet but wet. Meal worms are not recommended for chameleons because they are not nutritious feeders.
• 
  
• Supplements - Zoo Med’s Reptivite with D3 4-5 days a week. I now know that with D3 should only be given once every 2 weeks. I’m trying to find a good supplement without D3 and a multi vitamin. If I remember correctly the without D3 should be given like 5 days a week and the multi vitamin should be given once every 2 weeks opposite the with D3 schedule? I also, very lightly, dust her feeder bowl with the with D3 so that the worms and roaches can’t crawl out. No idea if this actually works? The schedule you have now is not correct. The one you mentioned that you should have is I like to use RepCal without D3 for my calcium and Reptivite without D3 as multivitamin.

• Watering - We have a ReptiRain set to mist once an hour for 15 seconds. I also hand mist 2-3 times a day for about a minute each time. I have a DIY dripper that works perfectly. I also treat all of the water with ReptiSafe. I don’t see her drink so lately I’ve been giving her water by hand. I have to force the first drop or 2 into her mouth (VERY gently) then she drinks without issue until she’s done. That is excessive misting IMO. The usual recommendation is 2x day for 2-3 minutes but this could be influenced by your humidity requirements. You want to make sure you allow time for the enclosure to dry out otherwise bacteria can grow. Chameleons are shy drinkers so it is not uncommon that you don't see her drink. Just because you don't see her drinking, doesn't mean she is. I would stop watering by hand unless her urates become yellow.

• Fecal Description - Her poop and urates look good now. This has been an up and down issue. She was eating moss so we removed it all from her cage. Like I said, she’ll eat then she won’t so then she doesn’t poop and I always freak out and take her to the vet. Her poops have been consistently dark brown. Her urates have been all over the place. But, again, now that I’m hand watering her they are a nice white color with a light yellowish tip. I asked the vet if she needed to be tested for parasites and she said no. I would recommend getting any chameleon from Petco tested for parasites. It is super common for them to be carrying something.
• 
  
• History - Ever since we brought her home she’s loved to be out of her enclosure. She seemed anxious almost to get out. Like she couldn’t get out fast enough. She was dark in her enclosure most of the time, now most of the time she’s light green (since we moved her cage) and when sleeping and out of the enclosure. She loved to just hang out on my shoulder and walk around on our couch. We have 3 cats so we watch her like hawks. Like I said, we’ve had our concerns/issues and have brought her to the vet a few times. Most recently she got a clean bill of health. The doc said she had lots of follicles and that eggs may be on the way? We have an egg laying bin that we keep clean (including sand). When she’s in her enclosure and doesn’t want to come out or be disturbed she’ll turn kind of sideways and puff up a little like don’t touch me. It doesn’t seem too traumatic to me. At that point she doesn’t get dark. She’s never bitten us (knock wood). A chameleon that is eager to come out can be a sign that something is wrong with the enclosure. A chameleon should be content to be in their enclosure.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Zoo Med Reptibreeze open air cage. Metal mesh screen on all 4 sides and top. 24x24x48. We put plexiglass on 3 sides about 1/2 way up to help with leaking.
• 
  
• Lighting - My hubs gets up about 7am and turns all her lights on. I turn them all off at night. We have, for main heat, the Exo Terra Intense Basking Spot 120v 60hz 150w. The Zoo Med Reptisun 5.0 uvb self ballasted lamp 2u 13w AC 120v 80hz 0.14a. And the Zoo Med Classified UL 100w 120v heat emitter model CE-100 vivarium heater LF-10. What time do you turn off the lights? You can an outlet timer that will automatically turn them on and off. They're like $3-4 at Target/Walmart. You have the incorrect UVB for a chameleon since you have a compact bulb. What you really want is a T5 HO linear UVB which will penetrate much further into the enclosure. I'd recommend a Reptisun 5.0 or a Arcadia 6%. This change needs to happen ASAP.
• 
  
• Temperature - Daytime is 100° at the very top/basking spot with 45% humidity. Bottom is 73° 53% humidity. Unfortunately I don’t have overnight temps or humidity. We keep our house at 72° year round. We have a dual temp and humidity gauge at the top and 1 temp gauge and 1 humidity in the middle. Neither are digital. This is WAY too hot. Could also be why she is wanting to come out so often. Her basking temperature should be closer to 85F. This needs to change ASAP. Humidity levels are good.

• Humidity - Sorry, I jumped ahead on the last question. Like I said we have an automatic mister, a dripper and I hand mist 2-3 times a day until everything is dripping.
• 
  
• Plants - We have one live pathos and one live corn plant, the rest are fake. I consider transitioning to all live plants. Veileds are known to eat plants and if she gets a hold the fake ones, she could become impacted.
• 
  
• Placement - Her cage is in our living room. I’ve included a pic so you can see about how far away she is from our couch. Like I said, until recently she loved being out of her cage. And just to mention it she appears to be a heavy sleeper and she’s on a pretty normal schedule. I also put two towels to cover where she sleeps so she isn’t bothered by the light from the tv. And it’s just me and the hubs so nothing crazy going on. You can see (the VERY dusty, ? sorry) vent above her cage, is doesn’t blow out but it gently sucks in. We had her in the dining room but she was dark all the time in her cage so we moved her to her new location. I think you can see in the pic but the top of her cage is almost to the ceiling. Can you clarify what you mean by heavy sleeper?

Current Problem - Wednesday I had her on my shoulder. I always wear a long sleeve shirt so she has something to grab onto. Well she slid right off the side of me and landed on our tile floor. I don’t know if she hit the counter on the way down. She landed on her stomach on all fours. I immediately put her in her cage and have kept a close eye on her since then. She’s acting normal and crawling around her cage with no issues. I can’t tell exactly how much she’s eating. I’ve hand fed her a few crickets and I have worm bowls but I can’t tell if she’s eating the worms or if they are escaping? The only thing is now she won’t come out of her cage. Not for me or the hubs. As of today she’ll let my hand get close to her and lightly rub her leg or under her chin. She still let’s you know if she don’t wanna be messed with by leaning sideways. Just to mention it, she hasn’t been crawling around the bottom of the cage or seemed restless or listless. So I don’t think eggs are an issue right now. Hopefully. Not uncommon for chameleons to fall and be totally fine. Just keep a close eye and make sure she is able to use all of her legs okay. You've probably lost trust with her because of the fall... but that should come back with time. The worms should not be able to climb out as long as the sides of the cup are smooth.

 

[LulaJune]

Thank you Gingero, very much.
I’ll def be making these changes ASAP.
By heavy sleeper I mean that she doesn’t appear to wake if there’s a little commotion in her cage. Sometimes I need to add food or water or mist when she’s sleeping. And I read they do the eye barely open thing, she just doesn’t wake up and start moving around.
Lights out for her is about 8:30pm.
I do cover the cage where she’s sleeping because I read it helps them feel safer or more secure. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Thanks again.
?

 

[Gingero]

Gotcha gotcha. Yeah that seems fine. No harm in covering the enclosure as long as it doesn't get too hot or humid as a result.

Here is another video that is worth watching. It explains why your UVB bulb isn't sufficient. Hot off the press!

 

[LulaJune]

I love her. She’s a smart cookie! Thanks again!

 

[Gingero]

I love her. She’s a smart cookie! Thanks again!

Haha thanks! That's me in those videos

 

[LulaJune]

OMG no way!? I gotta say I love love LOVE your hair color! I’d totally pay big money for that color. ?

So, just to say it I’ve got both the Rep Cal products and a Reptisun 5.0 T5 HO uvb on the way from Amazon.

I also already had a Century Two Outlet Dual Schedule Digital Timer that I’m gonna have the hubs set up tomorrow.

Is there anything else you can suggest?

I’m def going to switch to all real plants, not overnight but ASAP.

As far as the calcium with and without D3 do I have time to wait for them to arrive by mail (latest date is May 5th)? Or do I need to buy some from Petsmart tomorrow just to get by until the Rep Cal arrives? Is my Lula in immediate danger??

Thank you again!
Whoever you are! Lol.

 

[Gingero]

Aww thank you! Definitely got lucky in the hair department.

Yay for getting the supplements and UVB.

I'd stop using the calcium with D3 in the meantime since it is very easy to over do it and use gutload that is high in calcium.

You are very welcome

 

[LulaJune]

Last bit of inquiries.... I hope. Lol.

I use Fluker’s high calcium cricket diet and Mazuri Better Bug Gut Loading Diet plus fresh fruits and vegetables every day for all of my feeders. I bought some Fluker’s Cricket Quencher but it really started to stink so I threw it out. It started to stink only after like 6 weeks and the expiration date was way good.

I am reading that Cricket Crack is good? What do you think?

Lastly, I get my crickets and other feeders from Petsmart. I haven’t had an issue with any worms yet but some of the crickets seem to morph into black, misshapen and very stinky things. I know they’ll shed their exoskeleton but this seems different to me. It’s like they mutate, not shed or turn into moths or anything like that. It’s gross and they really stink bad. Have you had any issues like this? Where is it safe to buy online feeders?

Done. Promise.
I can’t thank you enough!
Where should I send the check? Lol. ?

 

[Gingero]

Definitely smart move to toss the Cricket Quencher. I personally just use fresh fruits and veggies for my gutload, but I know people have had success with Cricket Crack.




I also don't feed my chameleons crickets so I don't have much experience in that department. The smell is one of the reasons why I don't along with other reasons I talk about in this video:




Here's my breakdown of the most commonly available feeders:




Checkout the site sponsors for where to buy feeders: https://www.chameleonforums.com/sponsors/ Any of those companies are reliable to buy feeders from.

 

[LulaJune]

Is there like a Cham College I don’t know about? If so, where can I sign up? ?

Lula is still mad. Sometimes I can slowly put my hand near her and rub under her chin or touch her leg. Then other times I put my hand in the cage and she immediately does the slant I mentioned before. Only recently it’s not such a dramatic slant and she isn’t puffing out under her chin. I really hope she will trust me again!?

With my worms and crickets it seems they are also very picky. The only thing I can say for 100% sure is my super worms love cucumber. Again, I feed all my feeders fresh stuff everyday. Other than the super worms it seems like no one is eating anything. Today I bought bok choy, mango, blackberries and yellow squash so we’ll see what happens with these choices. I’ve tried green beans, carrots and other suggested stuff but I don’t see that they ate any of them.

Lol! I typed this but forgot to hit post reply! SMH!

 

[MissSkittles]

Is there like a Cham College I don’t know about? If so, where can I sign up? ?

Lula is still mad. Sometimes I can slowly put my hand near her and rub under her chin or touch her leg. Then other times I put my hand in the cage and she immediately does the slant I mentioned before. Only recently it’s not such a dramatic slant and she isn’t puffing out under her chin. I really hope she will trust me again!?

With my worms and crickets it seems they are also very picky. The only thing I can say for 100% sure is my super worms love cucumber. Again, I feed all my feeders fresh stuff everyday. Other than the super worms it seems like no one is eating anything. Today I bought bok choy, mango, blackberries and yellow squash so we’ll see what happens with these choices. I’ve tried green beans, carrots and other suggested stuff but I don’t see that they ate any of them.

Lol! I typed this but forgot to hit post reply! SMH!

There actually is a chameleon academy! https://chameleonacademy.com/
The one thing that I found crickets love is dandelion greens. I just give my feeders an assortment of whatever I can find that is organic along with some bug burger that I prepared with bee pollen and spirulina added. Cucumber is good for hydration but lacks any real nutrients.
The crickets from big brand pet stores usually aren’t very healthy and could potentially pose a parasite risk. I order on line from Ghann’s and have had only good experiences. Check out the site sponsors for ordering feeders.

 

[LulaJune]

MissSkittles,
Sorry for the delay. Thank you for the info. The chameleon academy looks totally brilliant! And the forums are an amazing source and help.
Thanks again!
?

 

[Persnickety Parson's]

Is there like a Cham College I don’t know about? If so, where can I sign up? ?

Yes there is.

https://www.chameleonbreeder.com/

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.chameleonacademy.android.breeder

 

[LulaJune]

Guys, I’m sorry and completely confused.?

I got her the Rep Cal with and without D3. Does she also need a multivitamin?

Does she need a separate light or food for vitamin a? Or a separate multivitamin?

How can I tell if my feeders are gut loaded?

How can II tell if they are actually eating the food I provide for them?

I really appreciate any info/advice you guys can offer.

Persnickety Parson’s thank you so very much for the info. I’m learning that with a female veiled Cham you will never know everything.

Cheers to all!
?

 

[Ares05]

Guys, I’m sorry and completely confused.?

I got her the Rep Cal with and without D3. Does she also need a multivitamin?

Does she need a separate light or food for vitamin a? Or a separate multivitamin?

How can I tell if my feeders are gut loaded?

How can II tell if they are actually eating the food I provide for them?

I really appreciate any info/advice you guys can offer.

Persnickety Parson’s thank you so very much for the info. I’m learning that with a female veiled Cham you will never know everything.

Cheers to all!
?

Yes, you need a multivitamin. I use reptivite without d3 but some use herptivite without d3.

No you dont need a different light for vitamin a. You just need a linear uvb bulb and your basking bulb, and if you have live plants, recommended to have some sort of grow light or your plants wont do well.

Well I don't know if there is a sure way to tell, but I feed a blended up concoction of various leafy greens, veggies, fruits and commercial gut-load (I freeze it, it lasts for a couple months). The resulting pulp is normally some shade of green so the crickets abdomens will faintly look that color.

You can also tell because well, you know, the food will be gone. Or partially gone, depending on how many feeders you have.