Aflatoxicosis

[JoeDigiorgio]

This sounds like something that can affect anyone's collection at any time. I imagine most if not all commercial cricket farms use grain to raise crickets, it's not financially practical to use vegetables on such a large scale.

This is pretty scary. I personally can't order small dubia roaches as feeders for my babies since they're illegal in Florida, although I would happily pay more for them. Avoiding commercial crickets without raising my own (vomit) isn't realistic.

 

[Andee]

I am wondering if I should start raising crickets. I honestly hate them and have never considered really raising them before.... But I am thinking strongly of doing it now. Not for myself, since currently I have no chams who eat them, but maybe for me in the future and honestly to be able to offer healthy crocks to those in US without any issue. I don't raise any of my feeders on grain (except my supers) and even then I am stupidly careful. My gutload has a small amount of quinoa and amaranth in it but I do not use moldy stores and i do not add more than can be eaten in a 12 hours span.... I do that with my veggies etc too... idk I need to look into it more. I want people who rely on crickets to have a safe alternative source other than rearing their own.

 

[kinyonga]

Thanks for posting all this information. As usual I have to digest it all before replying.
How are the chameleons doing now?

 

[kinyonga]

Interesting about roaches in this site...
https://books.google.ca/books?id=em...&q=aflatoxins cockroaches aspergillus&f=false

 

[kinyonga]

Another tidbit..."it i s believed that eating vegetables like carrots and celery reduces the carcinogenesis effect of aflatxoins."....
http://moldpedia.com/aflatoxin

 

[Roxanimals]

@JacksJill suggested I post on here. My Panther is having neurological issue that I thought were from Duranta erecta toxicity but knowing about grain toxicity symptoms I want to cover all bases.

I got this guy from King Chams. They’ve been absolutely amazing and helpful. “We” have currently set him up in a hospital bin.

I do have an exotic vet but exposure has passed and I’m wondering if anyone else has experienced this.

Cham- 4 month d Male Panther chameleon that I have had for 6 days.

Handling- I try not to handle as he’s adjusting but have been “helping” him when he falls.

Feeding- Gut loaded small crickets dusted with calcium without D (gut loaded with Timothy hay, dry cat food, and rabbit pellets as well as carrots, potatoes, sweet potatoes, sweet peppers, and zucchini dusted with spirulina, mazuri gut loading formula, bee pollen and dried sea weed). The crickets are kept in a large critter keeper tote with cardboard. I also offer a dish of mealworms, wax worms and fly larvae but he hasn’t tried those. Dubia are illegal in Florida and I’ll be picking up some silk and horn worms today.

Supplements- Calcium without D daily, I have reptivite with D that I gave him yesterday and have rephasy calcium with low d on order but it’ll take a week to arrive.

Watering- Misting system set for 3 minutes 3 times a day pointed down to only hit the leaves

Fecal- Finally pooped this morning, mostly white urite with some orange but I have no noticed feces in days

Cage info

Type- XL reptibreeze

Lighting- Giangarden T5 10.0 UVB and reptisun 5.0 UVB with heat lamp. He has two UVB lamps, I’ll be removing the T5 10.0.

Temperature and Humidity- 6” from heat source is 80F and 40% humidity. Lower portion of cage opposite of heat lamp is 76F and 50% humidity. I have two humidity/ temperature gauges on opposites sides and heights in the cage. He doesn’t go near the heat lamp but my house is never more than 74F.

Plants- Two golden pothos with bamboo sticks for ladders. After falling once placed a 2” layer of moss on bottom of cage. I will be removing the bamboo and switching it out with some washed oak branches.

Location- corner of living room, not air vent/ intake or fan, near a window that gets no direct light. Cage is on a raised table, top of cage is roughly 6’ in the air.

CURRENT PROBLEM- Cham fell on Friday and is now grabbing its legs causing it to fall more. He continuously uses his back legs to grab his arms immobilizing himself.

Currently in a hospital bin to avoid further falling injuries. This morning he developed a small black spot on his stomach.

Not sure if anything can be done about philodendron/ duranta toxicity or what to look for injury wise after the falls. Now considering aflatoxicosis as his symptoms seem neurological.

I had a philodendron and duranta erecta in the cage the first 4 days. The breeder and I established it was toxic, it was removed, the cage was cleaned.

​

 

[kinyonga]

First of all, I’m not a vet and only speak from 30+ years of chameleon experience (things I’ve learned from books, studies, articles, etc and my own chameleon keeping and that of others).

This may or may not have something to do with your chameleon’s behavior. You said you use “Timothy hay, dry cat food, and rabbit pellets” and dust “with spirulina, mazuri gut loading formula, bee pollen and dried sea weed”…if it was me, I would take all these things out of the mix for now and just use fresh veggies and greens to gutload/feed the insects. You can likely add some of them back in later. Just my opinion.

Cats are unusual animals in that they cannot produce their own Vitamin A …and therefore this must be provided in their diet. So the cat food you are using likely has more vitamin A than is recommended for a chameleon. Cat food is also fairly high in protein….high protein can lead to gout in a chameleon.
Rabbit pellets don’t contain vitamin C…I’m not sure how this affects chameleons.

 

[Roxanimals]

First of all, I’m not a vet and only speak from 30+ years of chameleon experience (things I’ve learned from books, studies, articles, etc and my own chameleon keeping and that of others).

This may or may not have something to do with your chameleon’s behavior. You said you use “Timothy hay, dry cat food, and rabbit pellets” and dust “with spirulina, mazuri gut loading formula, bee pollen and dried sea weed”…if it was me, I would take all these things out of the mix for now and just use fresh veggies and greens to gutload/feed the insects. You can likely add some of them back in later. Just my opinion.

Cats are unusual animals in that they cannot produce their own Vitamin A …and therefore this must be provided in their diet. So the cat food you are using likely has more vitamin A than is recommended for a chameleon. Cat food is also fairly high in protein….high protein can lead to gout in a chameleon.
Rabbit pellets don’t contain vitamin C…I’m not sure how this affects chameleons.

Thank you. I’m happy to try this. The breeder recommended the spirulina, bee pollen and sea weed as they give that to their feeders that he was eating before I got him.

 

[kinyonga]

I don’t think they will be a problem to add in…but I think with everything you might have things off balance at the moment. Like I said, I’m not a vet…just my opinion. Maybe others will chime in here.

 

[Roxanimals]

I don’t think they will be a problem to add in…but I think with everything you might have things off balance at the moment. Like I said, I’m not a vet…just my opinion. Maybe others will chime in here.

I don’t think it will hurt to try and wheat toxicity has caused tons of problems in history. I’m open to anything that’ll help my little Godzilla. I changed out the crickets to just fresh veggies and some mazuri gut loading feed.

 

[JacksJill]

I didn’t mean for you to post here but rather compare your chameleon’s symptoms with these and see if moldy food cold be a factor.

 

[Roxanimals]

I didn’t mean for you to post here but rather compare your chameleon’s symptoms with these and see if moldy food cold be a factor.

Oh I misunderstood. While my chameleon is having neurological symptoms they do not seem similar to those mentioned here.