Aggression on the forums recently?

[broderp]

I like to think out of the box and ask the questions from a different perspective. I also like to counter responses from time to time, not to be argumentative, but in playing devils advocate, you can open up new lines of thoughts, ideas or even clear up the original ones more. I believe I have been misread on the forum from time to time, but the truth is you can't always read someone's intent on a forum post.

I also love/hate the fact that you can ask a very simple question and get two polarized answers. Literally one person says "yes", the other "no". I try no not belittle anyone but I do question the accuracy of such answers. Do you trust the advise of the person who is a "new member" of the guy listed as "Chameleon Enthusiast"? Do you trust a breeder over an experienced forum keeper?

We have choices, we are all here to learn and help each other and ourselves.

 

[JacksJill]

I also love/hate the fact that you can ask a very simple question and get two polarized answers. Literally one person says "yes", the other "no". I try no not belittle anyone but I do question the accuracy of such answers. Do you trust the advise of the person who is a "new member" of the guy listed as "Chameleon Enthusiast"? Do you trust a breeder over an experienced forum keeper?

I try to go and read as many threads as I can on any given subject I'm researching and draw my own conclusions. If some one has science or experience behind their answer I go with that. That said there is more than one way to skin a cat and sometimes both answers are correct in the proper context.

I'm not an expert on the skinning cats thing. I don't do that.

 

[Carlton]

I like to think out of the box and ask the questions from a different perspective. I also like to counter responses from time to time, not to be argumentative, but in playing devils advocate, you can open up new lines of thoughts, ideas or even clear up the original ones more. I believe I have been misread on the forum from time to time, but the truth is you can't always read someone's intent on a forum post.

I also love/hate the fact that you can ask a very simple question and get two polarized answers. Literally one person says "yes", the other "no". I try no not belittle anyone but I do question the accuracy of such answers. Do you trust the advise of the person who is a "new member" of the guy listed as "Chameleon Enthusiast"? Do you trust a breeder over an experienced forum keeper?

We have choices, we are all here to learn and help each other and ourselves.

Even if you are hoping to open up a new line of thought or playing devil's advocate there are mature and non-confrontational ways to do it. Basic courtesy and respectful writing go a long long way! And, being honest about what is your OPINION and what is supportable FACT.

 

[Extensionofgreen]

I find the term "aggression" to be relative. Some people take constructive criticism as personal attacks, some people are argumentative or REFUSE to familiarize themselves with the caresheets, after being pointed in the right direction, and some people obviously have their minds made up and aren't seeking advice as much as an endorsement or agreement with the feelings they have towards owning their chameleon.
I have PM'd people that were the originators of help threads that turned hostile and gave them clear, concise, advice on turning the thread back into a constructive discussion and they continued engaging in ways that were antagonistic to the people they had already frustrated. I personally reply to very few help threads that pertain to basic care. I'm not mean, I'm not judgmental, I don't think I'm better or above learning new information than anyone else, but I know that I lack infinite patience and I find it tedious to spoon feed someone basic information that is readily available. I also feel that not holding people responsible for fixing out the basics, by linking them to a caresheet, instead of spoon feeding them the information, fosters a lack of responsibility on their part. If I do chime in, I try to be constructive, but if a dose of reality is needed, I will give it, in the most tactful way possible.
I have also defended people when the conversation turned from attacks on the person regarding their improper care and turned into insults, remarks, and comments about the poster's lifestyle/gender/sexuality/fashion choices. That poster did a great job of infuriating some of the coolest heads on the forums, but I still condemned behavior towards them that wasn't addressing the chameleon and its well being.
I agree with many of the sentiments here and I often wonder why the same people reply to every newbie thread and are obviously annoyed or holding back the anger they feel towards the poster. It's much better to leave the thread to someone else that isn't going to be stressed out by responding or annoyed. I see a million things a day that cause me to roll my eyes, and I simply let morons be morons, newbies be newbies, and the self-important be self-important. I accept that these are personality traits that I am not going to change by engaging and I will only frustrate myself.
I do want the forums to be a safe haven for new keepers to find information. That certainly is one of the forums greatest influences, but is wish there was a way to make people more accountable for reading at least the caresheets, before coming here with a half dead chameleon that has been cared for in exactly the opposite way we would recommend. Why should it be anyone's responsibility to bail you out of a situation cause by chosen ignorance, when it was too much of a bother to do a bit of reading? In the end, it takes all sorts of people at all levels of experience to make the world go round and I'm grateful there are people here with more patience than I have.
I don't detest newbies any more than I detest "elitist" that know everything, but really know
little more than anyone that does a bit of reading and how much of an expert they think themselves to be. People like this often tear apart every aspect of your approach to care that doesn't fit within their own narrow experience and hand out absolutes, such as you HAVE to use this bulb and you HAVE to water your parsons with a dropper by hand, because a mist system is not enough.
Neither the newbies refusing to take responsibility for being informed or the self-important know it alls are my cup of tea, but seldom to I engage with them, unless they question my capabilities, which has happened.

I am flattered that people look up to me and want my advice and I am happy to help, but if I'm short of time or patience, I may suggest you google something yourself or link you to what you are looking for. I am also the first to admit that I seek advice of people more experience than myself, too and I'm still learning. I am pretty confident in my knowledge and abilities, because I've been at this for over 20 years, but sometimes there isn't a google search that explains the best approach to brumation in captive parsonii and I want the ear of people that have repeated successes. I also can recognize when advice is overinflated, not applicable, well meaning, but incorrect, or simply subject to opinion and I treat the advice accordingly. You have to be a "problem solver", which means that you have to be willing to look into things that aren't ready to buy and ready to go or don't have a plug and play approach. You have to be willing to troubleshoot and you make yourself ready for the occasional hurdle, emergency, or approach that may not be like everyone else's.
I feel I've meandered far and wide with my post and will close by saying, we can celebrate the diversity of experience levels and dedication to our hobby on chameleon forums, but each individual, newbie or seasoned breeder should take responsibility for the way they are perceived by the majority and strive to be constructive or neutral and do the best you can to be informed, tactful, and progressive in your posts.

 

[Andee]

Well put @Extensionofgreen . There are moments where sometimes you really should just link things and say this is explained here (I do have those moments where it's obvious whatever the person is asking questions about is explained in the caresheets and I just either link or tell them in a step by step way, depending on what device I am on, and just say this will explain everything). Then if they have questions after obviously reading it, I will answer any. I also want to say your way of leaving threads or not answering due to your lack of patience for such things, is extremely important and argumentative things or frustrated tons should definitely not be the first step. If you know at the moment you may be frustrated but later you might not be I always think that stepping back for a few hours and not responding if it's possible is always a great approach that few people use. I have so much respect for you in so many ways. I also need to make a thread about asking about brumating Parsons and if there are other species that do it that we know of. I have never brumated a reptile yet. and I need to learn it before getting anything (especially chameleons) who do better with it. My tortoise will likely go into hibernation as soon as we move because he will be outside 24/7 but that will be a question for my tortoise forum XD

 

[broderp]

Even if you are hoping to open up a new line of thought or playing devil's advocate there are mature and non-confrontational ways to do it. Basic courtesy and respectful writing go a long long way! And, being honest about what is your OPINION and what is supportable FACT.

I hope this wasn't an attack on me.. (I'm kidding) In my case (in case you were saying I am confrontational), its not that I'm attempting to be. It's my training and schooling. I do a lot of Engineering work and attend FMEA (Failure Mode Effects Analysis) meetings as part of what I do for a living. I use a technique called the "5 whys". It's a technique that states if you ask why 5 times you will get to the root of the issue. It's instinctive. It can be taken as confrontational, refusing to accept advice etc..

The point is you can't judge a book by its cover. Emails and writing on a screen don't always interpret well.

 

[JacksJill]

Emails and writing on a screen don't always interpret well.

Very true the emojis help but tone is hard to convey in type.
I knew you were in engineering. I come from a family of them.
In veterinary medicine we do something similar sometimes it annoys the client but can jog their memory for pertinent details. The receptionist gets a brief history when making the appointment. The technician takes a history while getting the TPR and weight. By the time the vet gets into the room the owner remembers that an entire jar of peanut butter, pair of sox or underwear went missing 2 days before Fido started vomiting.

 

[Carlton]

I hope this wasn't an attack on me.. (I'm kidding) In my case (in case you were saying I am confrontational), its not that I'm attempting to be. It's my training and schooling. I do a lot of Engineering work and attend FMEA (Failure Mode Effects Analysis) meetings as part of what I do for a living. I use a technique called the "5 whys". It's a technique that states if you ask why 5 times you will get to the root of the issue. It's instinctive. It can be taken as confrontational, refusing to accept advice etc..

The point is you can't judge a book by its cover. Emails and writing on a screen don't always interpret well.

Oh no, my comment was to the world at large, not you!