Am I making him suffer?

[lovepicasso]

My joy of a few days ago has now turned to tears and they are streaming down my face as I post this, his tongue has now gotten worst again and there is a huge white glob of stuff on the end of it and it is making him almost gag, he shows no interest in crickets or worms because last time he tried a worm he couldn't get it down his throat and so the force feedings are all he gets, I can't believe this poor little boy of mine has gone through so much in the past 25 days or so and not one time has he tried to bite or hiss at us.....I can't help but wander if I am making him suffer through a painful and terrible quality of life, I don't want do that to him but I don't want to end his short life either, I'm at a point to where I don't know what to do anymore, my husband is in just as much pain because he is the one that has done most of the care for him and I have even seen him kiss Picasso, I know he is hurting also...he is going to take him to the vet tomorrow and he what else can be done....prayers please.

 

[DavidBuchan]

He is otherwise active is he? If he is not stressing when you forcefeed then he sounds like he can take it. Force feeding or giving meds is horrible I know........we never get given more than we can handle though, and I'm pretty sure that goes for lizards too.....best of luck for your long difficult recovery I doubt he is in much actual pain. Discomfort is not life-threatening, and he can recover.

 

[carol5208]

I am so sorry you are hurting over your chameleon. What is his diagnosis? You will know when the time is right. I probably let Romeo hang on longer than he should but he was still eating, drinking, and enjoying his time outside in our beautiful weather that I did not have the heart to put him down although I am sure he suffered before his passing. You have to ask yourself if quality is more than quanity, meaning he may live longer but is it worth it. My heart goes out to you and I respect any decision you make as I know it is a difficult one.

 

[jannb]

I would highly recommend a different vet if you can find one more experienced in chameleons. IMHO I believe the entire tongue should have been removed to start with instead of making him go through taking small sections at the time. IMHO leaving a portion of the tongue would only hinder him in eating. A really good vet would give pain meds and not allow him to suffer IF he is suffering. I will be keeping you and him in my thoughts and prayers.

 

[ferretinmyshoes]

Unfortunately it is very difficult to evaluate reptile for pain and quality of life. And burns to such delicate tissue are definitely tricky situations to deal with and can take a long time to completely resolve. It sounds like the glob on his tongue is more tissue that is going to be lost and is probably swollen due to edema rushing to the damaged tissue. Sometimes it just takes time for the body to realize it can't repair a part that was burned and just the most damaged parts were lost originally. Or it could be that infection has set in due to underlying damaged tissue.

This is a difficult position to be in regardless. Without seeing it in person it is difficult to say exactly what is going on. If it were me, I would take him in for general evaluation and see if your vet thinks that more medications (antibiotics and anti-inflammatories) are warranted until we see what the tongue is really going to do. I know he was on pain meds originally. Or if it looks like it needs to be amputated then that may be an option. If he is otherwise acting normally I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't interested in eating right now. It is difficult to say if there is more going on and how much longer he may need to make a recovery. Your vet should be able to talk to you more about what is ultimately the right decision for your family and Picasso.

 

[lisagr07]

gosh Sherri,,,
i wish i could offer you some miracle advice but i just cant.... i have yet to go through this type of issue with my chams but i have gone through it with some of my furry babies....
i had asked, with them, "how will i know", well advisers said "you'll see it in their eyes"... and you know what... i did see it and there was no question about it.. mine had eventually cut back on eating, were losing weight and quit taking care of themselves,,, but i was just being selfish and not wanting to let go...... it was hard,,, oh so hard... but i knew what i had to do as a responsible pet keeper...
having said that... i dont know what to look for in chameleons.... my heart goes out to you....... lisa

 

[lovepicasso]

He is otherwise active is he? If he is not stressing when you forcefeed then he sounds like he can take it. Force feeding or giving meds is horrible I know........we never get given more than we can handle though, and I'm pretty sure that goes for lizards too.....best of luck for your long difficult recovery I doubt he is in much actual pain. Discomfort is not life-threatening, and he can recover.

Thank you David, his color is very good and only gets the ugly stress color when we take him outside.

I am so sorry you are hurting over your chameleon. What is his diagnosis? You will know when the time is right. I probably let Romeo hang on longer than he should but he was still eating, drinking, and enjoying his time outside in our beautiful weather that I did not have the heart to put him down although I am sure he suffered before his passing. You have to ask yourself if quality is more than quanity, meaning he may live longer but is it worth it. My heart goes out to you and I respect any decision you make as I know it is a difficult one.

Thank you for your support and caring.

I would highly recommend a different vet if you can find one more experienced in chameleons. IMHO I believe the entire tongue should have been removed to start with instead of making him go through taking small sections at the time. IMHO leaving a portion of the tongue would only hinder him in eating. A really good vet would give pain meds and not allow him to suffer IF he is suffering. I will be keeping you and him in my thoughts and prayers.

Thank you Jann, he is going to see a couple of different vets tomorrow and I hope their prognosis is better than what I fear.

Unfortunately it is very difficult to evaluate reptile for pain and quality of life. And burns to such delicate tissue are definitely tricky situations to deal with and can take a long time to completely resolve. It sounds like the glob on his tongue is more tissue that is going to be lost and is probably swollen due to edema rushing to the damaged tissue. Sometimes it just takes time for the body to realize it can't repair a part that was burned and just the most damaged parts were lost originally. Or it could be that infection has set in due to underlying damaged tissue.

This is a difficult position to be in regardless. Without seeing it in person it is difficult to say exactly what is going on. If it were me, I would take him in for general evaluation and see if your vet thinks that more medications (antibiotics and anti-inflammatories) are warranted until we see what the tongue is really going to do. I know he was on pain meds originally. Or if it looks like it needs to be amputated then that may be an option. If he is otherwise acting normally I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't interested in eating right now. It is difficult to say if there is more going on and how much longer he may need to make a recovery. Your vet should be able to talk to you more about what is ultimately the right decision for your family and Picasso.

Thank you Dayna, I do respect your knowledge on these guys and will let you know just what the vet says tomorrow.

 

[lovepicasso]

gosh Sherri,,,
i wish i could offer you some miracle advice but i just cant.... i have yet to go through this type of issue with my chams but i have gone through it with some of my furry babies....
i had asked, with them, "how will i know", well advisers said "you'll see it in their eyes"... and you know what... i did see it and there was no question about it.. mine had eventually cut back on eating, were losing weight and quit taking care of themselves,,, but i was just being selfish and not wanting to let go...... it was hard,,, oh so hard... but i knew what i had to do as a responsible pet keeper...
having said that... i dont know what to look for in chameleons.... my heart goes out to you....... lisa

Thank you Lisa, I look in his eyes and there are so pretty and clear, he looks like he wants to be a survivor and I will give that to him as long as the vets tell me he is not suffering.

 

[lisagr07]

Thank you Lisa, I look in his eyes and there are so pretty and clear, he looks like he wants to be a survivor and I will give that to him as long as the vets tell me he is not suffering.

and thats what i would do also.... as long as you can get something down him, he basks appropriately and moves about his cage.... id give him a shot at rebounding!!!! keep a good thought!!! lisa

 

[babyjoe]

I really hate seeing situations like this.all I can say is your doing the best for Picasso that anyone can.I think I would be inclined to see another vet.purely for a second opinion they might come up with something new maybe not.I know its hard but after a while if theres no improvement you'll have to decide quality of life over quantity and say enough is enough.but you seem to be able to read Picasso well so I'm sure you'll make the right decision and fingers crossed everything looks up in no time

 

[sandrachameleon]

hoping for the best for you

 

[squeekz1992]

Oh Sherri I'm sorry if he looks to you like he is wanting to survive, help him. Spoil him rotten. I know its hard, but if his eyes say he's not given up yet, you can't either. My heart breaks for you. See what the vet says. I really how he is as strong as I think he is. <3

 

[crocky]

Gosh, so sorry to read this, I was so hoping for more good news in picassos recovery! Keep your head up and you will know when the time is right. Hopefully the news is better than what you are expecting tomorrow. Keep us up to date and as always, sending thoughts and prayers you guys way!

 

[lovepicasso]

and thats what i would do also.... as long as you can get something down him, he basks appropriately and moves about his cage.... id give him a shot at rebounding!!!! keep a good thought!!! lisa

He does bask, a lot and lets us give him about 3 or 4 ml of bug juice a day....thank you Lisa.

I really hate seeing situations like this.all I can say is your doing the best for Picasso that anyone can.I think I would be inclined to see another vet.purely for a second opinion they might come up with something new maybe not.I know its hard but after a while if theres no improvement you'll have to decide quality of life over quantity and say enough is enough.but you seem to be able to read Picasso well so I'm sure you'll make the right decision and fingers crossed everything looks up in no time

Thank you Joe, I hope we do make the right decision.

hoping for the best for you

Thank you Sandra!

Oh Sherri I'm sorry if he looks to you like he is wanting to survive, help him. Spoil him rotten. I know its hard, but if his eyes say he's not given up yet, you can't either. My heart breaks for you. See what the vet says. I really how he is as strong as I think he is. <3

Thank you so much Courtney and he will be spoiled rotten if not already.

Gosh, so sorry to read this, I was so hoping for more good news in picassos recovery! Keep your head up and you will know when the time is right. Hopefully the news is better than what you are expecting tomorrow. Keep us up to date and as always, sending thoughts and prayers you guys way!

With all the thoughts and prayers he will be getting, I think I'm starting to have a better outlook for Picasso...thank you so much!

 

[Barb]

I am so sorry for you. I know how hard it is to not know if you should keep going, or let them go. I have had to do it a couple times with our four legged fury dog family members. It so really, really sucks. Good luck at the vets. I so hope you get the answer your looking for. Best thoughts, fingers crossed for you and your little buddy.

 

[MissBritt]

I have been silently watching your posts about Picasso, I'm new here so don't know much, and can't offer help. I always read to see how he's doing, and was glad to see things were looking up. Now seeing this, I really hope the best for Picasso, I know it has to be hard. I'm sorry for what you're going through, and praying he gets over this.

 

[squeekz1992]

I'm sure he is already very spoiled

 

[Olimpia]

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. It's a really tough position to be in, and trust me, I know.

When Charlotte had her tongue amputation, over the 8-9 months she went on to live I struggled with that problem. At first, when everyone told me to put her down I thought that it was ridiculous to lose your life over something as stupid as your tongue. But as time went on and she continued to develop mouth infections and was too uncomfortable to eat so I would force feed her, I started wondering if she was really happy at all. She got lots of outside time and a large cage but she couldn't eat and she began being afraid of me due to the force feeding.

If I had to do it again, I don't know that I would. Perhaps a different vet would have made the difference, or something else would have made the difference, but I almost feel that her quality of life could have been much better.

So trust me, I understand where you are. But other chameleons have successfully learned to eat on their own and have gone on to live years happily, so there's hope that he can go on to thrive. You're doing everything you can, so I really hope that you two finally have luck and he turns around. If you need to chat about it you can always send me a PM, I'll be very honest about the ups, the downs, and whatever tips I can give you.

 

[lovepicasso]

I am so sorry for you. I know how hard it is to not know if you should keep going, or let them go. I have had to do it a couple times with our four legged fury dog family members. It so really, really sucks. Good luck at the vets. I so hope you get the answer your looking for. Best thoughts, fingers crossed for you and your little buddy.

Thank you so much Barb, we need all the good luck we can get.

I have been silently watching your posts about Picasso, I'm new here so don't know much, and can't offer help. I always read to see how he's doing, and was glad to see things were looking up. Now seeing this, I really hope the best for Picasso, I know it has to be hard. I'm sorry for what you're going through, and praying he gets over this.

Brittany thank you for the thoughts and for keeping up with my boy, we do need the prayers.

I'm so sorry you're feeling like this. It's a really tough position to be in, and trust me, I know.

When Charlotte had her tongue amputation, over the 8-9 months she went on to live I struggled with that problem. At first, when everyone told me to put her down I thought that it was ridiculous to lose your life over something as stupid as your tongue. But as time went on and she continued to develop mouth infections and was too uncomfortable to eat so I would force feed her, I started wondering if she was really happy at all. She got lots of outside time and a large cage but she couldn't eat and she began being afraid of me due to the force feeding.

If I had to do it again, I don't know that I would. Perhaps a different vet would have made the difference, or something else would have made the difference, but I almost feel that her quality of life could have been much better.

So trust me, I understand where you are. But other chameleons have successfully learned to eat on their own and have gone on to live years happily, so there's hope that he can go on to thrive. You're doing everything you can, so I really hope that you two finally have luck and he turns around. If you need to chat about it you can always send me a PM, I'll be very honest about the ups, the downs, and whatever tips I can give you.

Thank you Olimpia,I'm sorry with what you had to go through and it does sound really hard to have to do that, but I think I will give Picasso all the chance to live that he wants, he opens his mouth a little easier each time we have to force feed him and his eyes look so bright and clear, it will still come down to just what the vet has to say today and I, sure I will struggle really hard with it if it is bad.....thank you for giving me the ok to pm you, I may need your advise.

 

[vettpoor]

I am hoping for the best for Piccaso, sounds like you are doing everything possible, I know that I would try the exact same thing that you are doing and would give him every chance at a good life !!!!