Ambilobe Panther wont fire his tongue and stumbles while trying to bite at food

Randers88 · May 19, 2020

Hello All,
I could really use some help with my 1.5 y/o Panther.
Our boy, Zeppelin appears to be having issues eating. He appears reluctant to shoot his tongue and attempts to walk up to the feeder(currently trying to get him to go for hornedworms in order to make sure he eats) but he gets "disorientated" and stumbles when trying to bite the food. He will NOT shoot his tongue and stumbles while trying to walk up to it to take a bite into it.
Just a few minutes ago, He managed to grab a horned worm but it fell in the process of our boy stumbling forward while trying to grab it. I've always thought that our husbandry was quite solid but I'm beginning to doubt myself.
He is a little over a year and a half old, Ambilobe - panther, being housed in a Dragon Strand - Large Atrium bioactive enclosure. His basking temp's are 86*. The UVI at his highest basking point is currently 2.1 , its time to change his bulb but I wouldn't think a level in this range would be enough to cause something this fast.
The light fixtures is a Odyssea quad T5HO: two 6500k plant bulbs, one Arcadia 6% UVB and one arcadia 2% UVB. One 65 watt basking bulb in a dome fixture and then a 36" Jungle Dawn LED fixture. His lights are on automated timers, 12 on/ 12 off.
He was just eating fine a few days ago.
We feed him him 4 times a week. His usual diet is 2 medium-large Discoid roaches and 5x 1/2" crickets. We dust with Repashy Supercal NoD three times a week (one day a week: we add a little bee pollen to the calcium), then Calcium Plus once a week, and we switch up the Repashy Calcium - Plus, with Repashy Plus LoD everyother week.
Discoids are gutloaded with Repashy Bug Burger
Crickets are gut loaded with collard greens, carrots and sweet potato.
His mistking comes on ten minutes before lights on for two minutes(four nozzles in total in the cage - ensures plenty of *dew* build up on the leaves), and then five minutes before lights out for two minutes. It also comes on for thirty seconds at 3am and 5am. I run an ultrasonic humidifier at 30 minute intervals between 12 am and 6 am. His eyes do not appear sunken in, I see no other signs that would appear to be alarming.

We keep Schefflera Arbicola, Golden Pothos, Hibisbus, Wandering Jew, Nepenthesis, and Ficus Benjamina in the enclosure.
I weighed him last friday, he was at 170 grams.
His appetite hasn't been absent lately so this is very sudden and I've never seen him stumble or not fire his tongue.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

Prince of Duval · May 19, 2020

Randers88 said:
Hello All,
I could really use some help with my 1.5 y/o Panther.
Our boy, Zeppelin appears to be having issues eating. He appears reluctant to shoot his tongue and attempts to walk up to the feeder(currently trying to get him to go for hornedworms in order to make sure he eats) but he gets "disorientated" and stumbles when trying to bite the food. He will NOT shoot his tongue and stumbles while trying to walk up to it to take a bite into it.
Just a few minutes ago, He managed to grab a horned worm but it fell in the process of our boy stumbling forward while trying to grab it. I've always thought that our husbandry was quite solid but I'm beginning to doubt myself.
He is a little over a year and a half old, Ambilobe - panther, being housed in a Dragon Strand - Large Atrium bioactive enclosure. His basking temp's are 86*. The UVI at his highest basking point is currently 2.1 , its time to change his bulb but I wouldn't think a level in this range would be enough to cause something this fast.
The light fixtures is a Odyssea quad T5HO: two 6500k plant bulbs, one Arcadia 6% UVB and one arcadia 2% UVB. One 65 watt basking bulb in a dome fixture and then a 36" Jungle Dawn LED fixture. His lights are on automated timers, 12 on/ 12 off.
He was just eating fine a few days ago.
We feed him him 4 times a week. His usual diet is 2 medium-large Discoid roaches and 5x 1/2" crickets. We dust with Repashy Supercal NoD three times a week (one day a week: we add a little bee pollen to the calcium), then Calcium Plus once a week, and we switch up the Repashy Calcium - Plus, with Repashy Plus LoD everyother week.
Discoids are gutloaded with Repashy Bug Burger
Crickets are gut loaded with collard greens, carrots and sweet potato.
His mistking comes on ten minutes before lights on for two minutes(four nozzles in total in the cage - ensures plenty of *dew* build up on the leaves), and then five minutes before lights out for two minutes. It also comes on for thirty seconds at 3am and 5am. I run an ultrasonic humidifier at 30 minute intervals between 12 am and 6 am. His eyes do not appear sunken in, I see no other signs that would appear to be alarming.

We keep Schefflera Arbicola, Golden Pothos, Hibisbus, Wandering Jew, Nepenthesis, and Ficus Benjamina in the enclosure.
I weighed him last friday, he was at 170 grams.
His appetite hasn't been absent lately so this is very sudden and I've never seen him stumble or not fire his tongue.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated!

I would agree that your husbandry is pretty good. Bill recently did an episode on the Chameleon Academy Podcast about tongue issues I would check out. Post some pictures or link a video of his behavior if you can. You might want to fill out one of the help forms as well just to make sure all of your husbandry bases are covered. Has this issue just started?

https://chameleonacademy.com/ep-143-chameleon-tongue-issues/
You covered most of this, but at least fill in the gaps if you can:

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
Photos can be very helpful.

Randers88 · May 19, 2020

Prince of Duval said:
I would agree that your husbandry is pretty good. Bill recently did an episode on the Chameleon Academy Podcast about tongue issues I would check out. Post some pictures or link a video of his behavior if you can. You might want to fill out one of the help forms as well just to make sure all of your husbandry bases are covered. Has this issue just started?

https://chameleonacademy.com/ep-143-chameleon-tongue-issues/
You covered most of this, but at least fill in the gaps if you can:

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?

Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?

Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?

Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?

Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?

Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?

History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?

Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?

Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?

Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?

Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?

Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?

Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.

Photos can be very helpful.

Thank you for your advise, I'll search for the podcast that you mentioned right now. I thought that I had provided all of the answers in the original post but I definitely missed a few things.
He has been in our care since February of 2019.

I don't see any recent feces, the springtails and various Iso's do a pretty quick clean up. The last I saw of one, it was a standard brown with a slight fade into white urate. The fade mentioned was a brief bit of brownish-light orange.

The chameleons have their own room in the house, we gave them one of our guest bedrooms. It gets limited foot traffic aside from feedings, daily maintenance. There are seven in total in the room. The cages occupy walls across from one another roughly ten feet away, facing from each other(four on one side, three on the other). This is not new, the cages have been set up this way for over a year.

Daytime humidity is generally in the high 50%-low 60% range, with it spiking much higher in the middle of the night due to the humidifier. I have a small PC fan that circulates air throughout the cage at lights out.

I also have an osculating fan that comes on every thirty minutes to help move some air around as well as duct fans in the vent above the door to the room that pulls air out and a box fan that blows air into the room from the hallway. I've tried to provide as much air circulation into this room as possible without doing any major renovations like installing a ventilation fan into the ceiling (the thought has been in my mind for some time now though).

We are located in the Tampa Bay area, FL.

Prince of Duval · May 19, 2020

Randers88 said:
Thank you for your advise, I'll search for the podcast that you mentioned right now. I thought that I had provided all of the answers in the original post but I definitely missed a few things.
He has been in our care since February of 2019.

I don't see any recent feces, the springtails and various Iso's do a pretty quick clean up. The last I saw of one, it was a standard brown with a slight fade into white urate. The fade mentioned was a brief bit of brownish-light orange.

The chameleons have their own room in the house, we gave them one of our guest bedrooms. It gets limited foot traffic aside from feedings, daily maintenance. There are seven in total in the room. The cages occupy walls across from one another roughly ten feet away, facing from each other(four on one side, three on the other). This is not new, the cages have been set up this way for over a year.

Daytime humidity is generally in the high 50%-low 60% range, with it spiking much higher in the middle of the night due to the humidifier. I have a small PC fan that circulates air throughout the cage at lights out.

I also have an osculating fan that comes on every thirty minutes to help move some air around as well as duct fans in the vent above the door to the room that pulls air out and a box fan that blows air into the room from the hallway. I've tried to provide as much air circulation into this room as possible without doing any major renovations like installing a ventilation fan into the ceiling (the thought has been in my mind for some time now though).

We are located in the Tampa Bay area, FL.

Always nice to have more FL members on here. I’m up in Jacksonville. I linked the podcast in my original post if it helps. I don’t see anything too concerning and I don’t necessarily think potential stress from being able to see other chams would cause the issues you’re describing. Continue to monitor and update this post. I’m sure others will offer advice as well. Post some pictures or video of your cham and setup tomorrow if it continues.