An idea for water gel

[SuperRad]

I know i discussed this last year very briefly and wanted everyones opinion on it.

Knox unflavored gelatin has the same texture as water gel. And is made the same way you would make Jello.
It is flavorless, odorless, and is made strictly with pure beef and pork gelatin.
This means that the only real nutritional value is Protein, which may benefit Dubias and other feeder insects since some require high protein diets.
I've seen a box at safeway for 1.99 and was just thinking about it as a use for water gel.
Any thoughts, ideas on this?

Here is the link to Krafts site with more information on the gelatin
http://www.kraftfoodservice.com/productsandbrands/ProductSpecific.htm?option=product&id=1443

 

[lele]

gelatin gives me the heebie jeebies!

It is derived from collagen found in the bones, cartilage, connective tissue, and skin of animals, traditionally cows. Most commercially produced gelatin nowadays is produced from pig skin. If you have ever roasted a chicken or ham, you made your own gelatin. The juices in the bottom of the pan contain gelatin rendered from the collagen, and if you put the roasting pan in the refrigerator, you'll find some of the juice setting into a gel.

OK, I don't eat meat so it's out for me anyway and I surely don't want Cyrus or Darwin consuming pig and cow hooves anyway. But if you really want to, go for it.

However, here is an alternative that is plant based MOISTURE MUNCHIES

 

[Brad Ramsey]

This recipe (link in lele's post) is the way to go

-Brad

 

[jack frost]

I'm sold googling Agar Agar right now.

 

[Jordan]

I always take some sort of juice. Whether it is grape, apple, orange...etc.. it makes no real differance. Then take an assortment of minces of fruits (primarily) and some veggies. Heat the juice, almost to a boil, add in mince ingredients. In a different container take 1/2 corn starch and 1/2 water mixing together. Add into mixture by stirring, reduce heat and watch it thicken. As long as you go heavy with the slurry (corn starch and water) it will turn into a jello like substance. It can be refridgerated and stored for around a week depending on what you actually put in the mix.

It really takes some tweaking if you have never did anything like this before. If you put to little in it will not thicken enough. If you put to much it will either get to thick or break the next day when it sits at room temperature. After awhile you should get use to it.

You could also take some sugar and a fruit juice in a pan. Heat until the sugar has completely melted. Then add in anything else you want to the mix. This is the basis for marmalade.

There are many other ways to provide a food and water source that you can make you just have to be creative.

Collagen is the basis for all life. Without it multiple cell organisms or DNA would not be possible. It is what allows things to stay together.

 

[SuperRad]

@Jordan... This is what my wife was thinking last night when we were talking about this. She was saying why not use cornstarch to thicken it. As she was searching for that agar stuff she came across some cornstarch gel stuff.

 

[DMPanther]

home made moisture munchies

I bought some Agar tonight at the health food store and made my own moisture munchies.

I was happy to see the Agar has it's own nutritional value with calcium and iron, among a few other nutrients. It was EASY to make and the small bottle of powder will make many batches. This is going to save me a lot of $$.

The "cricket quencher" I formerly used was made out of something that sounded like plastic. My roaches were eating it, and in turn my chameleon ate them. Hmm? How healthy is that?

Thanks for the hot tip. I will watch my roaches tonight to see if they enjoy it. Let's hope they do!

One question: Do I need to keep the extra munchies in the 'fridge? What's their shelf life?

 

[lele]

yes, refrigerate, but don't freeze. Does the website give a shelf life? I can't remember how long I used to keep mine but it seemed like a long time. there is not much in there to "go bad."

They one thing to watch for in your feeder set ups (especially if you use it for crickets!) is frass buildup as it will mold quickly on this stuff, and of course you don't want them eating it anyway.

Did the roaches like it? I only used it with crickets, which I don't keep anymore. Sort of forgot about it until this thread came up again and I dug up the recipe - thank goodness for bookmarks! Might make some for the roaches depending on your report Then again, roaches will eat anything!

 

[DMPanther]

Hi lele,

After making the Agar, I realized it is the same "stuff" used in petri dishes in laboratories. I remember it well from science experiments in school.

Good news! The roaches enjoy the moisture munchies just as much as the plastic, co-polymer, commercially-available, cricket quencher. I'm really glad because this stuff is much less expensive and actually, naturally nutritious.

Thankfully, the roaches are much cleaner than crickets- so not much worry on the frass build up and mold.

I highly recommend others to consider raising roaches over crickets. I have an orange-head hybrid variety that doesn't fly or climb- so they are very easy to contain.

After feeding off all my feeder crickets, I had one left. It was loose for about a week in my chameleon's cage.

That one cricket stunk up the whole room! As soon as I caught it and fed it to "Blue" the stink evaporated. Sheesh! Well, that was off topic, but just had to share.

Thanks again for the tip!

 

[Brandy]

Agar Agar is veggie baised much better for chams

that said if your raising roaches not for feeders for chams the gelatin would work fine and is much cleaper the Agar. or you could use to get a colony going then switch to agar.

there is also a dry gutload called "Roach Coach" that id highly recomend.

 

[DMPanther]

Compared to what I was using, the Agar (aka Agar agar) is the cheaper way to go.

 

[Brandy]

im in canada so there might be a difference

 

[DMPanther]

The powdered Agar was around $8 US and will make many batches.

One batch (using 2 Tbps.) made more ounces of moisture munchies than the one jar of cricket quencher (which was around $7-8 US). I know this because I tried to refill the old cricket quencher container with the new moisture munchies and they wouldn't all fit.

I expect I will be able to make four batches with this Agar. So the cost savings is %75, by my guesstimation.

There may be a less expensive option for "plastic" cricket quenchers, but why bother? Go Au Naturale!

That's my 2 cents!

 

[LaserGecko]

I agree Cricket Quencher is a major ripoff since you're paying to ship water around the country. That's why I sell the dry stuff. Just add water and wait an hour.

The agar agar idea is cool, but I'd like to know how much of either substance is actually "consumed" by the prey items. Most of my water gel dries out instead of being eaten. This could be a only perceived health benefit.

There's a company out there that makes cookies using fruit juice (Frookies, IIRC.) Consumer Reports analyzed their product and found that there was absolutely no difference in the nutritional value of their cookies versus other similarly made ones. Well, the company just threw a gigantic hissy fit over the report. They filed suit against the Consumers Union and had a big press conference where their lawyer held up a glass of sugar water and a glass of orange juice and said "Do these people really believe that there's no difference? Which would you rather give your children?"

Of course, as lawyers tend to do, he ignored the facts and distorted the truth about their report. CR wasn't arguing about the benefits of juice, they were saying that the teaspoon of juice in each cookie wasn't doing anything healthy. Of course, they dropped the suit the next week and later even told other companies how to blitz the media to argue your point when your product is attacked.

The only way to tell for sure would be with a nutritional analysis of the crickets and I doubt any of us would be willing to pay for that!

Does anyone know a hospital nutritionist who could run batch of crickets through the machine?

 

[DMPanther]

My cockroaches do eat the "plastic" cricket quencher and they are now consuming the moisture munchies. Only a tiny portion dries up. If more were to dry up, then I suspect there is too much available to them.

I do not know how crickets behave, whether they eat it or suck up the moisture only, since I am not using this with crickets.

Here's the nutritional analysis of the Agar, which is significantly more diverse than Polyacrylamide copolymer in that other quencher.

1 TBSP
Calories 25
Fat 0
Sodium 8mg
Total Carb 6 g
Dietary Fiber 0.6 g
Protein 0.5 g
Vit. A 0
Vit. C 0
Calcium 5 % (USRDA)
Vitamin E 2% (USRDA)
Iron 10 % (USRDA)
Magnesium 15% (USRDA)

Again, I used 2 TBSP per 2 cups water. The roaches are consuming a tiny fraction of these amounts daily.

Hope they are all safe (like iron) for the chameleons. I have never heard that discussed before.

The cricket quencher has the following analysis:
(which may be like comparing apples to monkeys)
moisture not less than 97.49% (of total product weight or volume- not sure)
Crude protein not less than 1.89%
Crude fat not less than 0.08%
Crude fiber not more than 1.81%
Ash not more than 0.32%

Here's what's interesting. This Polyacrylamide copolymer is used in diapers, soil conditioners and many other product to either absorb water (or toxic spills) or retain water.
From wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyacrylamide
Some research [2] indicates that polyacrylamide can degrade under normal environmental conditions, releasing acrylamide, a known nerve toxin.

I suggest we all switch to Agar-agar. It's seaweed folks! Seems environmentally friendly to me.

 

[LaserGecko]

You need a nutritional analysis of the prey item(s) to see if there's any valid nutritional difference.

If a colony of fifty roaches consumes the whole two tablespoons in a day, then each one has probably eaten about one Calorie of energy and .02g of protein. Feed off ten of them to a cham and the protein "boost" is a whopping .2g before you account for the biological loss from the roach using part of it.

That's not very "significant" at all. Of course, we'll have to blend a couple hundred of them using each method of watering and take a look to see for sure.

If the crystals were dangerous, Fluker Farms would've been sued by now and we'd all know about it. It's not like this is some new product.

 

[Justin Carl]

HAHA!
I made the moisture munchies.
It works great too.
I was surprised at the cost of the agar agar though.
Crickets love it and so do the roaches.
Splash of orange juice with a dash(bam!) of Miner-All.
I was making it Emeril style.

 

[DMPanther]

My chameleon eats one or two roaches maybe every other or every third day. They are fat and large- I feed to my cham. the sub-adults which are about one inch in length and 1/2" in width. Very filling.

Don't forget, the cockroaches are also eating food- not just drinking from the moisture munchies- so their nutritional value would be much higher than what you suggest.

If the crystals were dangerous, Fluker Farms would've been sued by now and we'd all know about it. It's not like this is some new product.

I would not go that far! Many companies get away with stuff until they are found to be dangerous. This cricket quencher product is being sold to us to hydrate crickets.

Since it is not intended for human consumption, there is no FDA warnings (and probably no studies) on it. This type of product is put in diapers to absorb leaks, in soil to retain moisture, etc. Not in food products for people.

Who would sue Fluker's Farms over the death of an animal? Most victims wouldn't even know the cause of death. How many people do an autopsy? How many people would suspect the cricket quencher?

People used to think radiation from X-rays was safe, they used to think smoking was safe (and healthy).

All I'm saying is, I believe this natural product, from seaweed, is going to be safer.

To Justin,

My friend who keeps invertebrates as a hobby told me not to feed cockroaches oranges or other citrus fruits. For some reason they can't metabolize it (or something to that effect). Though, as many of us know oranges are safe for crickets.

 

[Duke]

So why would the gelatin not be good to feed roaches? I see that the agar would be fine, but why not the gelatin? What would be problematic about it.

Duke

 

[DarkRapture]

thanx!

just wanted to thank everyone for this awesome thread. i have been debating the best way to hydrate my crix and have definitely made up my mind now. the munchies is the most creative and nutritious way to go about it.

WOOO HOOOO!