Any breeders in Buffalo

[NHenn]

I've heard this before as well that a permit to transfer a chameleon from the US into Canada isn't required but this has never been backed by any actual data. The governing agency in Canada might not require an import permit as stated on the links above but if you scroll down it clearly states:

Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES)
It is the importer's responsibility to determine whether the species for importation is subject to the controls imposed by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES), which are administered by the Canadian Wildlife Service. Please contact the Canadian Wildlife Service for information.

Since Furcifer Pardalis is a CITES Appendix II regulated species they are required to have an export permit from the exporting country to then be inspected by both the exporting and importing authorities. So the Canadian Food Inspection Agency might not require an import permit but CITES, Canadian Wildlife Service and US Fish & Wildlife will require an export permit from the US issued by US F&W which will need to be inspected, stamped and cleared by both the US F&W and the Canadian Wildlife Services. I've imported from Canada and the process is the same, just in the opposite direction as the Canadian Wildlife Services will issue the export permit as there isn't an import permit required in the US either.

So, in my opinion don't risk any attempt to bring a chameleon back into Canada without proper CITES documents as there is a high likelihood they will be confiscated which will doom the fate of that chameleon and most likely rock you with some major fines.

 

[doto]

Hey,

I highly recommend Simply Chameleons from Chatam ON. Tom and Tracy were fantastic to deal with.

www.simplychameleons.com

 

[jajeanpierre]

I've done some research about bringing chaneleons over, and you don't need any paper work as long as your driving across the border. All lizards are okay to cross over. Turtles And birds need paper work. That's bringing them into Canada.

I just saw this and have to comment.

You are flat out wrong about chameleons not needing paperwork to cross into Canada from the US.

The rules and regulations you are quoting are from two different Canadian federal agencies with two different purposes. I think that is the confusion.

The Canadian Food Inspection Agency might not require any paperwork to import a chameleon (and I don't know if that is true or not, by the way) because it is dealing with the safety of Canadian food. That includes risks to Canadian agriculture both plant and animal. When you import an animal into Canada you have to jump through their hoops, just as when you import an animal into the US, you have to jump through US Department of Agriculture's hoops.

The second agency is Environment Canada. They administer CITES which is an international agreement that ensures the international trade in wild animals and plants does not threaten their survival. US Fish and Wildlife is the CITES Manager on the US side.

Two different agencies with two different goals and different regulations that are not mutually exclusive of each other.

 

[Lathis]

I hope that since we didn't get a neener-neener follow up post about the OP smuggling an animal across the border that he realized the truth and is looking for a domestically available cham.

 

[Chris Anderson]

I've done some research about bringing chaneleons over, and you don't need any paper work as long as your driving across the border. All lizards are okay to cross over. Turtles And birds need paper work. That's bringing them into Canada.

I guess we will find out this weekend. I will let you guys how it goes. And yeah guys in the states have it good, a lot of reptiles in Canada are over priced. Tokay geckos go for at least $40, frilled dragons go for $400.

I'm not flying over I'm driving over.

This is completely false. Bringing a chameleon across an international boarder (i.e., from the US to Canada) without CITES documents would be highly illegal and a violation of international trade laws, and laws in both Canada and the US. If you've done this, you have violated the US Lacey Act, and numerous other statutes in the US and Canada. I can't stress enough how poor the judgement of trying this is when you've been pre-warned about its legality. Very irresponsible!

Chris

 

[Pygmy chameleon]

This is completely false. Bringing a chameleon across an international boarder (i.e., from the US to Canada) without CITES documents would be highly illegal and a violation of international trade laws, and laws in both Canada and the US. If you've done this, you have violated the US Lacey Act, and numerous other statutes in the US and Canada. I can't stress enough how poor the judgement of trying this is when you've been pre-warned about its legality. Very irresponsible!

Chris

This is completely wrong!i have brought a female panther chameleon over the border a month ago and they did see her and was completely okay with her they found her beautiful.

 

[cyberlocc]

This is completely wrong!i have brought a female panther chameleon over the border a month ago and they did see her and was completely okay with her they found her beautiful.

Well congrats on breaking the law and now talking about it lol.

Whether Canada requires an import permit or not, I do not know. However, it likely does, that is all irrelvant.

To Export a Cites II species from the US you have to have a CITES export permit, period. Here it is in black and white,

• To export an Appendix-II species from the United States, you need a CITES permit. Click here for an application form. Contact the foreign country to meet its requirements.
• To import an Appendix-II or Appendix-I pet snake into the United States, you need a CITES permit issued by the exporting country.

https://www.fws.gov/permits/faqs/faqb.html (that particular FAQ was in reference to snakes, doesn't matter its a general rule)

Chameleons are CITES 1 and 2 listed. You cannot export one without a permit, doing so is breaking the law.

 

[Lathis]

This is completely wrong!i have brought a female panther chameleon over the border a month ago and they did see her and was completely okay with her they found her beautiful.

Your cham was very, very lucky. Just because Immigration was not doing its job, that does not make it legal. You broke a ton of domestic and international laws. For the safety of the animal, don't do that again.

 

[cyberlocc]

Here is another statement for CITES,

"Appendix II lists species that are not necessarily now threatened with extinction but that may become so unless trade is closely controlled. It also includes so-called "look-alike species", i.e. species whose specimens in trade look like those of species listed for conservation reasons (see Article II, paragraph 2 of the Convention). International trade in specimens of Appendix-II species may be authorized by the granting of an export permit or re-export certificate. No import permit is necessary for these species under CITES (although a permit is needed in some countries that have taken stricter measures than CITES requires). Permits or certificates should only be granted if the relevant authorities are satisfied that certain conditions are met, above all that trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species in the wild. (See Article IV of the Convention)"
https://cites.org/eng/app/index.php

It does say THEY do not require a Import Permit, however a Export Permit is needed.

 

[Pygmy chameleon]

Your cham was very, very lucky. Just because Immigration was not doing its job, that does not make it legal. You broke a ton of domestic and international laws. For the safety of the animal, don't do that again.

Here is another statement for CITES,

"Appendix II lists species that are not necessarily now threatened with extinction but that may become so unless trade is closely controlled. It also includes so-called "look-alike species", i.e. species whose specimens in trade look like those of species listed for conservation reasons (see Article II, paragraph 2 of the Convention). International trade in specimens of Appendix-II species may be authorized by the granting of an export permit or re-export certificate. No import permit is necessary for these species under CITES (although a permit is needed in some countries that have taken stricter measures than CITES requires). Permits or certificates should only be granted if the relevant authorities are satisfied that certain conditions are met, above all that trade will not be detrimental to the survival of the species in the wild. (See Article IV of the Convention)"
https://cites.org/eng/app/index.php

It does say THEY do not require a Import Permit, however a Export Permit is needed.

I wasnt lucky because its the law! We called before purchasing the chameleon.we are allowed to bring chameleons over the border and no necessary paper work required.

 

[cyberlocc]

I wasnt lucky because its the law! We called before purchasing the chameleon.we are allowed to bring chameleons over the border and no necessary paper work required.

That is false, I just showed you in black and white that is 100% false.

Who did you call? The border patrol that obviously has no clue what they are doing? I just showed you on CITES website it is ILLEGAL!

What you did, is called Smuggling. You smuggled a restricted species of animal across international lines. That is illegal period.

I also very highly doubt that any customs agents told you it was okay to take any animal across international lines without any paperwork, you cant even take a dog, must less a restricted and monitored animal.

However of course, you are right. Nevermind the LAWs written out in black and white for you, and people that work with these animals for a living (Chris Anderson) saying the same, we are all wrong so is CITEs who's laws these are.

 

[wavingsnail]

She is got a point,chameleon is not like a buffalo wings u can bring them everywhere,but There is a awesome bronx zoo if u ever visit in new york ,empire building n coney island hot dogs u will never get that in Toronto,enjoy ur trip.

What.

 

[cyberlocc]

Why do 99 percent of your posts make no sense?

It made sense to me?

He said a chameleon is not like fast food, that you can get it and anywhere and take it anywhere.

But if he is going to crossover into New York, there is a zoo to go look at chameleons. And other attractions that wont see in Canada, and just to enjoy the trip instead of adding unneeded drama by trying to step the laws and bring back animals in an illegal fashion.

At least that is what I got from it.

 

[wavingsnail]

Oh, okay.

 

[alphakenc]

That is exactly what I meant in a nice joking way,since all the regulations are very clear and why risk the chameleons crossing the border,plus since the OP is in new york state ,there are tons of sight seeing place to visit!!

 

[Lathis]

I wasnt lucky because its the law! We called before purchasing the chameleon.we are allowed to bring chameleons over the border and no necessary paper work required.

This is false. You are wrong. This is not opinion. It is the law. It is the law in both US and Canada, and CITES is not a fun recommendation. It is an international law that carries fines for violation. Smuggled animals are confiscated and people who smuggle animals get arrested.

You were given wrong information and now are propagating bad information for others. Stop spreading false information that it's "okay" to carry restricted animals across international borders without permits in place. That is called smuggling.

I'm not saying you are a bad person. I am saying that violating CITES and domestic animal trafficking laws (Lacey Act for the US) puts your chameleons at risk of being confiscated and euthanized. Never mind any fines you might be assessed. Canada could also chose to prohibit your entry into their country temporarily or permanently. I do a lot of work in Canada, and they do not mess around about passport restrictions.

If you still choose to move a CITES listed animal across international borders, knowing that you are breaking the law - and there is no "interpretation" here, you are breaking the law - then that does make you a bad person.

Learn from this experience, be grateful your cham got lucky, don't freaking do it again, and stop telling people it's okay.

 

[JGuinan007]

I travel to Canada sometimes for work and they don't mess around. A colleague I was traveling with was denied entry because he was considered a criminal because he had gotten a DUI when he was 21 and he was in his forties at that time. They sent him right back to US and warned him never to come back threatening prison. I couldn't believe it. You really got lucky unintentionally smuggling that chameleon.

 

[Chris Anderson]

This is completely wrong!i have brought a female panther chameleon over the border a month ago and they did see her and was completely okay with her they found her beautiful.

I wasnt lucky because its the law! We called before purchasing the chameleon.we are allowed to bring chameleons over the border and no necessary paper work required.

Sorry, @Pygmy chameleon, but you do not have a clue what you are talking about. Lizards are not regulated under Canada's Health of Animals Regulations, and therefore there is not typically any required import permit, health certificate or border inspections. The exception, however, is species listed on CITES, which require CITES permits to cross international borders. These regulations are implemented under the Wild Animal and Plant Protection and Regulation of International and Interprovincial Trade Act (WAPPRIITA) and the Wild Animal and Plant Trade Regulations in Canada. By transporting your chameleon from the US into Canada without CITES permits, you have not only violated these Canadian laws, but also the US Lacey Act. But don't just take my word for it, here are references from the Governments of Canada and the US:

https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/documents/cites-permits
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/animals...-and-reptiles/eng/1326658752555/1326658911065
https://www.fws.gov/le/interstate-wildlife-and-parts-transport.html
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...ed-wildlife,-plants,-exotic-skins-and-animals

There is absolutely no question about the legality of this. It is highly illegal for you or anyone else to cross international borders with a chameleon without proper CITES permits and inspection by proper authorities on both sides of the international border in question. Whether you like it or not, did so intentionally or not, or received bad information or not, you illegally smuggled your chameleon into Canada and risk(ed) having the animal seized, and yourself arrested and fined. Do not encourage others to take the same risks by spreading completely false information.

Chris

 

[alphakenc]

I wasnt lucky because its the law! We called before purchasing the chameleon.we are allowed to bring chameleons over the border and no necessary paper work required.

Hey Pygmy,Im not trying to argue with u,did ur realtive have any permission or license for them to bring the chameleons into Canda,since ur families has a farm,this is why Im asking,Im not an expert on the international law,Im only saying this to u because I read the CITE rule n regulations,so dont take this in a wrong way .

 

[Pygmy chameleon]

you guys can all turn against me but i dont give a crap because ik some people on here are extremely mean and treat others like shit and im not gonna let it phase me because u guys really dont know any better but to argue. i think you guys should make more than one phone call to different places because they are all gonna tell u the same thing. no ones ever gonna know the right answer.