Any cham nutritionists out there? Got Questions!

[Ceycham]

The larvae have the calcium to phosphorus ratio you have heard about when you have heard about BSF. When the pupate into flies they lose a lot of nutrients and don't eat. And most adult chams don't show a huge amount of interest in the larvae in the end.

I have been experimenting with the BSF, so far he loves them, but he's small yet. He'll eat about 10 large size ones at a time, and maybe more but that's all I put in his bowl. I can see that he may prefer larger food as he gets fully grown, though. Good to know about the fly stage having less nutrients, I was wondering. Didn't have high hopes on them getting to that stage as I have read it requires some special conditions. My guy goes gaga for some net captured houseflies though, so I planned to buy/feed both the larvae and let some pupate all they want, although I haven't actually received them yet. Tonight he enjoyed a moth the kids caught for him.

 

[Ceycham]

It jas taken me ALOT of trial and error with plants; I have killed hundreds of dollars worth this year finding the right ones for her enclosure and learning where to keep them where they dont get too much/too little light or water. If yours didnt like that one, maybe you can try another?

What kind was it? When I first started using them I bought a few on the "safe list" that were not.....the best climbing or perching plants (bromeliads). They looked great, but ended up rotting from misting/not enough light from being hiddem by the pothos.

I know a lot of people have luck with pothos and schleffera; if you do want to try again maybe yours will like one of those

It was the schleffera. I wanted one tall enough to make a good basking height, but it was also quite dense and bushy. I trimmed out a few branches but any more would have compromised height. It was no good. He just seemed to avoid it.

 

[Andee]

Capturing wild houseflies is something I don't recommend... I only recommend doing that if you feel you need to with pollinating species of flies... and BSFL are really easy to pupate XD

 

[Ceycham]

BSFL unfortunately for many reasons are not an option for a staple feeder. As previously mentioned, they aren't terribly cheap, though that's only an issue for some people, the real problem is there size. You would have to feed 50 plus of them a day to a large male veiled. Though they aren't a great staple, they are an amazing, stimulating treat. I'm a firm believer in a natural vivarium, and doing such allows you to dump BSFL right into the substrate. They will burrow down quickly, but in a few days, you have adult flies popping up a few times a day, for months! Chameleons (most sizes) can't resist the hunt. I add 50 to 100 BSFL to my substrate about once every 2 months. They help stimulate plant growth, and then feed my panther chameleon. Only problem is opening the vivarium if a fly or two is buzzing around. They move swiftly, but usually last only an hour or two before they're eaten. This goes for most feeders. I've had tomato horn worms turn into moths, and super worms turn into large beetles, all within the cage. I consider them treats, as they are increadibly stimulating for a reptile on the hunt.

I love this. I have an all screen enclosure with a pan at the bottom. I wonder if I could use a shallow but wide planter and plant some pothos to drape around the fake tree and somehow do this as well? Do you also feed crickets and roaches?

 

[Ceycham]

Also, i mainly try to use the plants to fill in hiding spots and help make humidity pockets, then use the branches and vines for pathways. Maybe you could try a new branch where the fake plant is and then fill in around it with foliage?

I've considered this, and may still do so. Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Ceycham]

Capturing wild houseflies is something I don't recommend... I only recommend doing that if you feel you need to with pollinating species of flies... and BSFL are really easy to pupate XD

You think it's bad? Why is that? Several websites I've come across in researching have promoted the idea of wild caught insect feeders. Houseflies, moths, grasshoppers and such were mentioned,.

Which species are pollinating?

 

[LucyLoo]

Ahh, bummer; the schleffera was the first one Lucy decided she loved to really chomp on (and ate probably 1/4 of the leaves off over the first 3 months she had it). Her second favorite has been her hibiscus. She ate leaves/flowers off of the first 2 I managed to kill. The 2 she has now I haven't seen her eat, but she loves sleeping in one of them at night. Good luck if you do try it again, let me know how it goes!

About what Andee said about houseflies...I had found a really cool caterpillar this spring I wanted to give Lucy, looked it up and found out the species and then came on here before I fed it to her. What freaked me out was some thread in the search results talked about how you really cant be sure that the wild caught insect hasn't ingested a poison, chemical, or anything unhealthy for your cham. Or it could have come from an area where they are spraying pesticides; that freaked me out enough for me to huck the caterpillar back in the woods

 

[Andee]

It's not bad to feed wild caught but need to be aware of you species and what they eat and toxicity levels. Houseflies are prone to eating garbage, feces, rotting things, etc. There is such a thing as feeding safer wild caught insects and then there's playing with fire and asking for trouble. Pollinating species in my opinion will be hard to find in the US, stuff like blue bottles etc. Make sure you don't feed lubber grasshoppers. Feed captive bred flies only in my opinion.

 

[Kristen Wilkins]

What kind of veggies do you offer?

I have not read through all the new posts not sure if this has been answered . Dandelion , kale , Collard greens , endive etc. (no spinach) .

Veggies - carrots , sweet potato , squash , zucchini , Red bell pepper .

Fruits - apple , melon , berrys . Small amounts Cut into appropriate size .

Not on BSFL . There so tiny you would have to feed a ton and it's not a cheap diet . Just a heads up there if that was not been mentioned .

 

[jamest0o0]

What @Goose502 said is spot on. I throw a ton of BSFL, roaches, crickets, worms, etc in my cages. They wonder around and allow the chams to hunt naturally. I feed every day as well as the main source of food. My cages are fully planted with over a foot of substrate though, i wouldnt do this with barebottom.

I find my chams love the larvae and the flies. They're just too small to feed as a staple and they'd have a hard time digesting all of that.

Buy bottleflies, they're cheap and great flying insects you can gutload. I wouldn't feed anything that eats random crap they find like houseflies.

 

[Ceycham]

What @Goose502 said is spot on. I throw a ton of BSFL, roaches, crickets, worms, etc in my cages. They wonder around and allow the chams to hunt naturally. I feed every day as well as the main source of food. My cages are fully planted with over a foot of substrate though, i wouldnt do this with barebottom.

I find my chams love the larvae and the flies. They're just too small to feed as a staple and they'd have a hard time digesting all of that.

Buy bottleflies, they're cheap and great flying insects you can gutload. I wouldn't feed anything that eats random crap they find like houseflies.

Thank you. From now on I will stop catching. I have bottle fly spikes on the way. Do the larvae gut load on whatever the dirt substance is, or do you mean the flies gut load, and on what?

 

[Ceycham]

I would love to hear what everyones staple choices are I love the idea of free roaming insects in the cage but the crickets are too good of hiders, so Ive been cup feeding those

 

[jamest0o0]

I leave the spikes at room temp, they immediately pupate. When the flies come out they eat bee pollen and honey. Then I save flies in fridge and feed them a couple times a week.

Btw idk why people always have issues with cricket smell? Banded crickets from ghanns and josh's frogs don't smell at all IME. Even a thousand in a small bin have no smell. So maybe give those a try

 

[Andee]

It's usually when people don't keep crickets correctly that they smell.

 

[Ceycham]

It's usually when people don't keep crickets correctly that they smell.

I'm sure I fall into this category. I kept mine in a large cricket keeper, no more than 50 small crickets at a time, but I would get several die off in a day, and the dead ones smell. I also kept them in a closed cabinet which didn't help. The cabinet still smells and there are no crickets left in there. Keeping them properly fed and their droppings and dead cleaned out was proving quite a chore, and my willingness to put that much effort into care of the FOOD, well, lets just say thats when the research started into other food sources.

 

[Ceycham]

I leave the spikes at room temp, they immediately pupate. When the flies come out they eat bee pollen and honey. Then I save flies in fridge and feed them a couple times a week.

Btw idk why people always have issues with cricket smell? Banded crickets from ghanns and josh's frogs don't smell at all IME. Even a thousand in a small bin have no smell. So maybe give those a try

I may just order some. I've been getting crickets from petsmart, and I don't think those are banded. Just read up and banded variety are touted as being less smelly , longer lived, and more resistant to less than perfect care. Sounds like my kind of cricket!

 

[jamest0o0]

I wouldn't get crickets from those big chains

 

[Andee]

I don't recommend keeping crickets of any species in Kritter keepers XD

And generally their food takes effort no matter the species you use.

 

[Ceycham]

I don't recommend keeping crickets of any species in Kritter keepers XD

And generally their food takes effort no matter the species you use.

Sigh...OK fair enough. I'm a committed chameleon keeper and I will do what I must. I will likely be heading to threads about insect keeping next

Thanks for all the great info all of you!

 

[jamest0o0]

Ditch the pet smart crickets too, they are dirty and are a good way to give your chameleon parasites and other issues. Give ghanns or josh's frogs a try goodluck