Any tips for settling in?

[etclement]

Hi! I currently have 3-3.5 M/o old veiled (3-3.5 is my best guess since he is just getting his stripes and I bought him from flchams 2 weeks ago 2-3 m/o). He is in a 2x2x4 reptibreeze with good lighting and tons of foliage. However, he was very shy from the start. Since I've passed the 2 week mark, I thought a good idea would be to try and feed him a dubia from a stick I was holding. Not a good idea. He puffed up and displayed black spots, the most angry I've ever seen him get. I wasn't holding the stick too close to him, maybe 6 inches at the closest. My questions are, is this a good idea to make him like me more, and what other things could I try to help him like me more? I am fully aware that chameleons can't actually "bond" and whatever, I just want him to be comfortable with me when I'm around him, observing him, hand feeding, etc.

This is Clay:
https://gyazo.com/e8396e66679f9509aed4ec48778d96e6
https://gyazo.com/61c24a64b3f5f4e36a1b048c901ffd2e
This is his cage (Only the uvb light is on, he's getting ready for bed):
https://gyazo.com/dd01a8dee999396404dd372e4dabbf8f

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

Sounds like you have reasonable expectations - some chams never warm up to their staff
There are many suggestions on different threads (maybe do a search if you haven't already?)... what has worked for me is just hanging out in her space (used to be my bedroom, now the whole thing belongs to her haha). Moving slow, watching her, letting her watch me. Letting her know that each time she saw me didn't necessarily mean I was going to invade her space. I would just stand or sit quietly and watch her. I wouldn't let anyone in unless they moved slow. It took time and patience. When I fed her, I would close the door and watch her eat. Each time I fed her, I watched her eat and then moved away. I wanted her to associate me and food as a good thing... like my face meant yummy food. Sometimes, she wouldn't eat with me watching her - she would be watching me, not the food. So I would leave her alone and try again another day. Eventually, she would eat while I watched her. Once she was good with that, I moved to try hand feeding. That took a bit of time. I usually tried hand feeding with something she couldn't resist like a blue horned worm... not her regular feeders, but now she will take anything from my hand. If she wanted out of her enclosure, I would hold my hand out in her path and at first, she moved away or backed up. But to get out of the cage, she had to use my hand. Sometimes, my arm would go numb from holding it out to her. Sometimes she would take her little oven mit and just hold a finger then move away. Now, when I open the door, she knows it's either food or time outside and I have no issues handling her when needed.

2 weeks isn't very long in cham-world... he probably needs much more time to settle in before any next steps. Also, I've heard/read that chams can be territorial about their space, but once you get them out of their space, they aren't as grumpy?

Good luck!

 

[etclement]

Sounds like you have reasonable expectations - some chams never warm up to their staff
There are many suggestions on different threads (maybe do a search if you haven't already?)... what has worked for me is just hanging out in her space (used to be my bedroom, now the whole thing belongs to her haha). Moving slow, watching her, letting her watch me. Letting her know that each time she saw me didn't necessarily mean I was going to invade her space. I would just stand or sit quietly and watch her. I wouldn't let anyone in unless they moved slow. It took time and patience. When I fed her, I would close the door and watch her eat. Each time I fed her, I watched her eat and then moved away. I wanted her to associate me and food as a good thing... like my face meant yummy food. Sometimes, she wouldn't eat with me watching her - she would be watching me, not the food. So I would leave her alone and try again another day. Eventually, she would eat while I watched her. Once she was good with that, I moved to try hand feeding. That took a bit of time. I usually tried hand feeding with something she couldn't resist like a blue horned worm... not her regular feeders, but now she will take anything from my hand. If she wanted out of her enclosure, I would hold my hand out in her path and at first, she moved away or backed up. But to get out of the cage, she had to use my hand. Sometimes, my arm would go numb from holding it out to her. Sometimes she would take her little oven mit and just hold a finger then move away. Now, when I open the door, she knows it's either food or time outside and I have no issues handling her when needed.

2 weeks isn't very long in cham-world... he probably needs much more time to settle in before any next steps. Also, I've heard/read that chams can be territorial about their space, but once you get them out of their space, they aren't as grumpy?

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I've read a few threads on this kind of topic. I might try to get him out of his cage using a focus tree in front of his cage when the door is open. But for now it sounds like I just have to wait.

 

[brilowe1991]

Sounds like you have reasonable expectations - some chams never warm up to their staff
There are many suggestions on different threads (maybe do a search if you haven't already?)... what has worked for me is just hanging out in her space (used to be my bedroom, now the whole thing belongs to her haha). Moving slow, watching her, letting her watch me. Letting her know that each time she saw me didn't necessarily mean I was going to invade her space. I would just stand or sit quietly and watch her. I wouldn't let anyone in unless they moved slow. It took time and patience. When I fed her, I would close the door and watch her eat. Each time I fed her, I watched her eat and then moved away. I wanted her to associate me and food as a good thing... like my face meant yummy food. Sometimes, she wouldn't eat with me watching her - she would be watching me, not the food. So I would leave her alone and try again another day. Eventually, she would eat while I watched her. Once she was good with that, I moved to try hand feeding. That took a bit of time. I usually tried hand feeding with something she couldn't resist like a blue horned worm... not her regular feeders, but now she will take anything from my hand. If she wanted out of her enclosure, I would hold my hand out in her path and at first, she moved away or backed up. But to get out of the cage, she had to use my hand. Sometimes, my arm would go numb from holding it out to her. Sometimes she would take her little oven mit and just hold a finger then move away. Now, when I open the door, she knows it's either food or time outside and I have no issues handling her when needed.

2 weeks isn't very long in cham-world... he probably needs much more time to settle in before any next steps. Also, I've heard/read that chams can be territorial about their space, but once you get them out of their space, they aren't as grumpy?

Good luck!

I'm in the same position. My cham is acting like hes all boss of a sudden lol. He's a little charmer

 

[jajeanpierre]

@etclement Little babies are really reactive. Just keep trying.

Do you know what he reacted to? Was it the stick? You? The dubia roach? Test your hypothesis. Start by just opening the door. Next, put in the stick the way you did--not too close maybe 8 to 10 inches away from him. See how that works. Then add a dubia. If you get a reaction to the stick, don't use a stick and try holding it in your fingers. Present the wiggling antennae and legs to get his attention, not the back.

If it is you he is reacting to, just keep presenting yourself to him and back away when he shows distress. Find out how close is the point where he goes from calm to reacting. Desensitize him to you and slowly reduce the distance where he is comfortable.

Those are a few suggestions on how to teach him to accept scary things. Don't look for big changes, just tiny baby steps.

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

@etclement Little babies are really reactive. Just keep trying.

Do you know what he reacted to? Was it the stick? You? The dubia roach? Test your hypothesis. Start by just opening the door. Next, put in the stick the way you did--not too close maybe 8 to 10 inches away from him. See how that works. Then add a dubia. If you get a reaction to the stick, don't use a stick and try holding it in your fingers. Present the wiggling antennae and legs to get his attention, not the back.

If it is you he is reacting to, just keep presenting yourself to him and back away when he shows distress. Find out how close is the point where he goes from calm to reacting. Desensitize him to you and slowly reduce the distance where he is comfortable.

Those are a few suggestions on how to teach him to accept scary things. Don't look for big changes, just tiny baby steps.

I love those suggestions - testing to see what was the trigger - brilliant.

 

[etclement]

I love those suggestions - testing to see what was the trigger - brilliant.

I'm going to try that right now. He doesn't seem to be too fond of this stick or me. If going to offer him a dubia on another stick and make sure he can't see me.

 

[etclement]

Ok here are the results:
Stick: he doesn't seem to mind it
Me: Clay isn't exactly fond of me, but he's never hissed or displayed defensive colors with just me
Dubia: Dubia don't scare him. It was a normal feeder dubia that I feed him everyday
Results: He was displaying darker colors (Not solid, spots) but not super puffed up when the dubia was on the stick. He has one eye locked on it and his head tilted towards it when he either saw me or something else, and retreated. I'll try again tomorrow.

 

[etclement]

Ok here are the results:
Stick: he doesn't seem to mind it
Me: Clay isn't exactly fond of me, but he's never hissed or displayed defensive colors with just me
Dubia: Dubia don't scare him. It was a normal feeder dubia that I feed him everyday
Results: He was displaying darker colors (Not solid, spots) but not super puffed up when the dubia was on the stick. He has one eye locked on it and his head tilted towards it when he either saw me or something else, and retreated. I'll try again tomorrow.

I am also getting the focus tomorrow and attaching it with a vine.

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

Ok here are the results:
Stick: he doesn't seem to mind it
Me: Clay isn't exactly fond of me, but he's never hissed or displayed defensive colors with just me
Dubia: Dubia don't scare him. It was a normal feeder dubia that I feed him everyday
Results: He was displaying darker colors (Not solid, spots) but not super puffed up when the dubia was on the stick. He has one eye locked on it and his head tilted towards it when he either saw me or something else, and retreated. I'll try again tomorrow.

good luck and be patient

 

[RoyBomb "Flex"]

Patience

 

[jajeanpierre]

Ok here are the results:
Stick: he doesn't seem to mind it
Me: Clay isn't exactly fond of me, but he's never hissed or displayed defensive colors with just me
Dubia: Dubia don't scare him. It was a normal feeder dubia that I feed him everyday
Results: He was displaying darker colors (Not solid, spots) but not super puffed up when the dubia was on the stick. He has one eye locked on it and his head tilted towards it when he either saw me or something else, and retreated. I'll try again tomorrow.

Okay, so you've isolated the trigger that he is reacting to--your presence.

Here are a few tips I've found help to get them to hand feed. I hand feed my adult wild caughts once or twice a month to give them Vitamin A. Some of my wild caughts are quite shy, especially when they are newly imported. I need to know that they actually ate the bug with the Vitamin A on it plus I don't want any of the bug I use to escape. (I use bright green banana cockroaches.) I don't use tongs, just my hands. I also use a particularly enticing bug (bright green) that I only feed by hand.

Distance is the key. Distance between the bug and the chameleon and distance between the bug and you.

Chameleons seem to need/want at least five inches between the bug and them. I think it allows them to use their tongue properly. Any closer, and they are hesitant. It might be an inability to focus on the prey but I think it is related to the tongue which is an incredible structure. For a fearful chameleon, make sure you have the bug a good 8/10 inches away from the animal for an adult veiled or panther. For a baby that weighs 10g, 6 inches is probably an easy reach, maybe even 8 inches.

Getting the bug away from the chameleon's face reduces a lot of his worry and makes it easier for him to use his tongue.

Next, stand back from him. Try to get your body as far away from him as possible. Again, your distance reduces his stress and worry.

Your body placement and body language is also very important. Try to get the chameleon, the bug and your arm/body in a straight line. As he focuses on the bug, he also has you in his field of vision. He doesn't have to look sideways at you to keep an eye on your movements and then back to the bug.

I've used whatever I can--plants in the cage, edges of the cage, light fixtures, etc.--to put a visual barrier between my face/eyes and the chameleon's face/eyes. If I can't see his face, I'm not looking directly at him the way a predator does. Predators look directly at their prey and often into their faces. Even your chameleon looks at the faces of its prey--it always hits the bug's head or very close to the head when it strikes. If you are staring intently at your chameleon's mouth/face, you are using a predator's body language. Start by being non threatening and as non-predator like as you can be. I know it is hard. It is our natural tendency to focus on what you desperately want to see--your chameleon hand feeding--but by doing so, you actually reduce the chance of it happening.

Eventually they usually calm down to your presence.

Hope that helps.

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

Thank you! This helps me, too

 

[etclement]

Okay, so you've isolated the trigger that he is reacting to--your presence.

Here are a few tips I've found help to get them to hand feed. I hand feed my adult wild caughts once or twice a month to give them Vitamin A. Some of my wild caughts are quite shy, especially when they are newly imported. I need to know that they actually ate the bug with the Vitamin A on it plus I don't want any of the bug I use to escape. (I use bright green banana cockroaches.) I don't use tongs, just my hands. I also use a particularly enticing bug (bright green) that I only feed by hand.

Distance is the key. Distance between the bug and the chameleon and distance between the bug and you.

Chameleons seem to need/want at least five inches between the bug and them. I think it allows them to use their tongue properly. Any closer, and they are hesitant. It might be an inability to focus on the prey but I think it is related to the tongue which is an incredible structure. For a fearful chameleon, make sure you have the bug a good 8/10 inches away from the animal for an adult veiled or panther. For a baby that weighs 10g, 6 inches is probably an easy reach, maybe even 8 inches.

Getting the bug away from the chameleon's face reduces a lot of his worry and makes it easier for him to use his tongue.

Next, stand back from him. Try to get your body as far away from him as possible. Again, your distance reduces his stress and worry.

Your body placement and body language is also very important. Try to get the chameleon, the bug and your arm/body in a straight line. As he focuses on the bug, he also has you in his field of vision. He doesn't have to look sideways at you to keep an eye on your movements and then back to the bug.

I've used whatever I can--plants in the cage, edges of the cage, light fixtures, etc.--to put a visual barrier between my face/eyes and the chameleon's face/eyes. If I can't see his face, I'm not looking directly at him the way a predator does. Predators look directly at their prey and often into their faces. Even your chameleon looks at the faces of its prey--it always hits the bug's head or very close to the head when it strikes. If you are staring intently at your chameleon's mouth/face, you are using a predator's body language. Start by being non threatening and as non-predator like as you can be. I know it is hard. It is our natural tendency to focus on what you desperately want to see--your chameleon hand feeding--but by doing so, you actually reduce the chance of it happening.

Eventually they usually calm down to your presence.

Hope that helps.

Wow. That helps me so much, thanks! I'll try the line of vision thing as soon as I get home. In fact, I think a reason Clay was rejecting the dubia was because I was to the side hiding my face, and sometimes looking to see where his eyes were.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Wow. That helps me so much, thanks! I'll try the line of vision thing as soon as I get home. In fact, I think a reason Clay was rejecting the dubia was because I was to the side hiding my face, and sometimes looking to see where his eyes were.

I know! Peeking breaks his concentration and he goes right back to worrying about you eating him!

Try getting everything lined up so he can see you and the bug at the same time. Look away from him--down and to the side so you see him barely out of the corner of your eye but don't turn your eyes towards him--just see him using your peripheral vision. It won't be very clear but you will see if he is thinking about taking the bug. Locking your eyes on him is what a predator does so avoid that at all costs.

 

[etclement]

I know! Peeking breaks his concentration and he goes right back to worrying about you eating him!

Try getting everything lined up so he can see you and the bug at the same time. Look away from him--down and to the side so you see him barely out of the corner of your eye but don't turn your eyes towards him--just see him using your peripheral vision. It won't be very clear but you will see if he is thinking about taking the bug. Locking your eyes on him is what a predator does so avoid that at all costs.

Today's report: There was some progress made. I tried the alignment thing at it was an improvement, he tilted his head towards the dubia but never went for it every time I tried. However, Clay seems to really like something that I could use to my advantage: Freerange dubia. When I let dubia climb around on the outside of the cage, he will follow them to the point that I have to take the dubia off or he will fire his tongue. Even if I am looking near him, or near his head. Maybe I could put a few dubia on the inside of the screen using a stick or my hand, and that would help? Do screens hurt cham tongues?

 

[opheliaeatsbugs]

Today's report: There was some progress made. I tried the alignment thing at it was an improvement, he tilted his head towards the dubia but never went for it every time I tried. However, Clay seems to really like something that I could use to my advantage: Freerange dubia. When I let dubia climb around on the outside of the cage, he will follow them to the point that I have to take the dubia off or he will fire his tongue. Even if I am looking near him, or near his head. Maybe I could put a few dubia on the inside of the screen using a stick or my hand, and that would help? Do screens hurt cham tongues?

I let my crickets and dubia loose inside her enclosure and she has no problem shooting and catching them. She loves hunting them.

 

[etclement]

I let my crickets and dubia loose inside her enclosure and she has no problem shooting and catching them. She loves hunting them.

Cool. I already cup feed clay, since he's a small cham in a pretty heavy foliage cage. If I let some loose with my hand, I think that would be a start, but only a few at a time.

 

[etclement]

I let my crickets and dubia loose inside her enclosure and she has no problem shooting and catching them. She loves hunting them.

This is not working. Clay only seems to get more and more wary of me as I'm going on. Twice a day, I spend about 20 minutes trying to get him to hand feed. I even tried adult GBR. What am I doing wrong? I know patience is important, but he only seems to be getting worse and worse. I also tried the stick and line of vision thing.

 

[etclement]

This is not working. Clay only seems to get more and more wary of me as I'm going on. Twice a day, I spend about 20 minutes trying to get him to hand feed. I even tried adult GBR. What am I doing wrong? I know patience is important, but he only seems to be getting worse and worse. I also tried the stick and line of vision thing.

Talk about good timing. I just made the first step in hand feeding. I released a dubia near Clay on the screen, and made sure he could see me. He finally ate something with me near! On a side note, he also displayed some cool colors today.