Are imports ok?

[johncjb]

Hey guys,

I'm searching really hard for an online site that has captive bred Rudis Chameleons for sale.

Every site that sells them has told me they are imported.

I have heard and read that imported chameleons are not a good choice.

What do you guys think about imported chams?

(PS if u know of any Rudis Chams for sale pls tell me )

Thanks for your help

 

[pssh]

Prior to the recent ones, I haven't seen any imported for a long time. That suggests that it is unlikely to find a CB one until the recent imports have had babies/someone breed them. Imports can go either way. They require a certain level of care to acclimate them, and then of course, some will come in much better than others. If you decide to buy WC, make sure it is from a reputable seller and you have the time and resources to acclimate it/treat it for parasites/etc.

 

[Kent67]

Based on having kept 30 some-odd species of chameleons over the last 22 years I agree 1000% with everything Kara said but wanted to add one more thing. When you know you want to try something that is not commonly offered as captive bred/hatched, be prepared to get them as soon after they land in the country as possible for the best chances of acclimation. By the time they make it here they've already been over-crowded, insufficiently watered and fed, etc. for a while. Oh, and I guess one other thing: younger animals seem more likely to acclimate and thrive long-term.

 

[kplatvoet]

Is it your first chameleon ? It's safer to start with a captive bred from a good breeder - They tend to be healthier and it's hard enough to learn how to take care of a healthy chameleon and with Panthers and Veilds there is way more information on proper care- .
I haven't decided how I feel about the imported vs captive bred debate - The idea of throwing chameleons in a bag and shipping them 1/2 way around the world makes me sick - but I don't see how that would actually be profitable so I would hope that in most cases care would be taken so the chams would be in good shape when they get here- I read about a chameleon farming in Kenya and Tanzania recently - http://livestockkenya.com/index.php/pets/275-chameleon-farming - I'm hoping they've come a long way in improving things but I really don't know.

I did see that LLL Reptile has Rudis chameleon's - they are a site sponsor- I think they are imported- FLChams has had captive bred on their site - but they have been sold out for quite a while-

 

[mcanham]

WC is too risky in my opinion. If you already had experience with that species I might would say " do it" but not with no experience. Parasites and poor treatment during capture and transport weigh heavily on them and there chances of survival. Granted, back in 95 I bought some montiums that were wc and I had zero experience. They thrived and I breed them successfully. I believe Rudis is live bearing so the females need to be super healthy in order to survive giving birth. I think CIN put out an article on this species back in the day, maybe you can find it. Good luck.

 

[johncjb]

Is it your first chameleon ? It's safer to start with a captive bred from a good breeder - They tend to be healthier and it's hard enough to learn how to take care of a healthy chameleon and with Panthers and Veilds there is way more information on proper care- .
I haven't decided how I feel about the imported vs captive bred debate - The idea of throwing chameleons in a bag and shipping them 1/2 way around the world makes me sick - but I don't see how that would actually be profitable so I would hope that in most cases care would be taken so the chams would be in good shape when they get here- I read about a chameleon farming in Kenya and Tanzania recently - http://livestockkenya.com/index.php/pets/275-chameleon-farming - I'm hoping they've come a long way in improving things but I really don't know.

I did see that LLL Reptile has Rudis chameleon's - they are a site sponsor- I think they are imported- FLChams has had captive bred on their site - but they have been sold out for quite a while-

Wow, thanks! I'll ask LLL if it's imported. Dunno how i didnt find them

 

[johncjb]

Thanks everyone for your help. I will probably avoid imported altogether

 

[rshewfel]

If you find any babies at this time they are most likely from a wild caught female that came in gravid. Make sure you do not buy any babies that are really young. The babies will be very hard to keep alive if you are not very experienced. Find someone who breeds them and raises the babies to at least 3-4 months. This will not be an easy task but keep looking. I would not get any wild caught unless you are experienced and getting them for breeding purposes.

 

[Kent67]

And the last time anyone saw cb sternfeldi (rudis) 3-4 months old for sale was? Just being realistic. If you do your homework on care and start out with young, healthy animals they could do just as well as cb.

 

[pssh]

And the last time anyone saw cb sternfeldi (rudis) 3-4 months old for sale was? Just being realistic. If you do your homework on care and start out with young, healthy animals they could do just as well as cb.

I agree with this. There is a little more effort to ensure their well being, but young animals can do very well in captivity. If I buy WC animals, though I rarely have, I always try to pick out younger (and of course healthier) looking ones as they tend to be easier to acclimate and generally thrive better/more readily. It's not impossible to acclimate WC animals (even for a new owner) as long as one does the research and does what needs to be done.

It's best if you can pick out the animals yourself, but if not, buy from a reputable seller that genuinely seems to care for the animals and can pick one out according to your preferences. LLL has always done well for me in this regard.

 

[rshewfel]

And the last time anyone saw cb sternfeldi (rudis) 3-4 months old for sale was? Just being realistic. If you do your homework on care and start out with young, healthy animals they could do just as well as cb.

Yeah, I agree Kent. However if he buys a baby under 2 months it will most likely die and I won't recommend buying a wild caught chameleon as a pet. Honestly it would be easier to acclimate a wild caught than raise a young baby but I still won't recommend it. I would recommend a different chameleon if he can't wait and contact a breeder. If he is looking for a small chameleon I would recommend a carpet chameleon. Why does it have to be a rudis?

 

[jrath]

Reptile pets direct and Reptile outpost have some Rudis, not sure if they are WC or CB

 

[pssh]

Only way to know is to ask. Make sure they are reputable before buying. The faunaclassifieds board of inquiry is a good place to look for reviews and/or problems people have had with sellers. Also, it is possible (though not a guarantee) that there could be 3-4 month old babies in the next 6 months or so because at least some of the imports are likely to be female that give birth almost immediately upon arrival.

 

[nobrate]

Reptile pets direct and Reptile outpost have some Rudis, not sure if they are WC or CB

Just throwing my 2 cents in I got a trio of WC T. deremensis earlier this year from Reptile Outpost and they looked better than a lot of CB of any chameleon I've seen.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

Based on having kept 30 some-odd species of chameleons over the last 22 years I agree 1000% with everything Kara said but wanted to add one more thing. When you know you want to try something that is not commonly offered as captive bred/hatched, be prepared to get them as soon after they land in the country as possible for the best chances of acclimation. By the time they make it here they've already been over-crowded, insufficiently watered and fed, etc. for a while. Oh, and I guess one other thing: younger animals seem more likely to acclimate and thrive long-term.

If your going to buy wild caught chameleons Kent explained it great. This is probably the best protocol you could go by. Cheers!

 

[DanSB]

The best reason in my opinion beginning chameleon keepers should stick with captive bred chameleons is that it is very difficult for a person not familiar with keeping chameleons to determine health status and provide proper acclimation.

Until one is competent at providing the correct controlled climate and nutrition the risk levels are very high. A captive bred animal will be much more tolerant of mistakes during the learning curve.

To people like Kent and Kara this is second nature. Kent can probably guess humidity levels without even looking at a gauge and Kara can juggle feeders without batting an eyelash. (I'm just being demonstrative here but both are likely true).

New keepers can be successful with wild caught chameleons, but I don't think its worth the risk until one has a real understanding of all the intricacies and has mastered the associated arts.

 

[rshewfel]

I guess I'm the odd man out. John said he was going to avoid wild caught chameleons and now the senior members are trying to convince him it is ok. I'm sorry but I really do not understand that.

Good luck to you John.

Edit: Somehow I missed your post Dan. I agree with you completely.

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

The best reason in my opinion beginning chameleon keepers should stick with captive bred chameleons is that it is very difficult for a person not familiar with keeping chameleons to determine health status and provide proper acclimation.

Until one is competent at providing the correct controlled climate and nutrition the risk levels are very high. A captive bred animal will be much more tolerant of mistakes during the learning curve.

To people like Kent and Kara this is second nature. Kent can probably guess humidity levels without even looking at a gauge and Kara can juggle feeders without batting an eyelash. (I'm just being demonstrative here but both are likely true).

New keepers can be successful with wild caught chameleons, but I don't think its worth the risk until one has a real understanding of all the intricacies and has mastered the associated arts.

If you want a pet chameleon, wild caughts do not make the best pets stay with captive breds. However if you especially want to work with a species that is seldom seen in captivity such as Rudis Chameleons (not seen much in the last five years). Then you are going to have to consider buying a wild caught chameleon to obtain that species.

When you are confronted by the challenge of being an inexperienced keeper looking to buy a wild caught chameleon Kent states the protocol well. As Kent stated the odds of obtaining Rudis Chameleons that lives a long healthy lives greatly increase if you buy fresh recent import or (me stating) long term captives (even preferably deparisitized), (me stating) ones you can check personally for cuts and bruises not just blind buying, or younger chameleons (as Kent stated). As Kent stated for the most part, those are the wild caught chameleons that seem to acclimate and live the longest in captivity.

 

[DanSB]

If you want a pet chameleon, wild caughts do not make the best pets stay with captive breds. However if you especially want to work with a species that is seldom seen in captivity such as Rudis Chameleons (not seen much in the last five years). Then you are going to have to consider buying a wild caught chameleon to obtain that species.

When you are confronted by the challenge of being an inexperienced keeper looking to buy a wild caught chameleon Kent states the protocol well. As Kent stated the odds of obtaining Rudis Chameleons that lives a long healthy lives greatly increase if you buy fresh recent import or (me stating) long term captives (even preferably deparisitized), (me stating) ones you can check personally for cuts and bruises not just blind buying, or younger chameleons (as Kent stated). As Kent stated for the most part, those are the wild caught chameleons that seem to acclimate and live the longest in captivity.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Kent, or Kara at all. What I am saying is that this might not be the best endeavor for a new keeper. If someone really wants a muscle car but has never driven a car before I would recommend they learn on car with less power to get the basics of driving down first. This is the same thing. Maybe its easy for you to keep the correct micro environment and provide the correct feeders. But for someone who doesn't know how to do this well wouldn't it be good to learn before trying to also acclimate a wild caught at the same time?

 

[Motherlode Chameleon]

I'm not disagreeing with you, Kent, or Kara at all. What I am saying is that this might not be the best endeavor for a new keeper. If someone really wants a muscle car but has never driven a car before I would recommend they learn on car with less power to get the basics of driving down first. This is the same thing. Maybe its easy for you to keep the correct micro environment and provide the correct feeders. But for someone who doesn't know how to do this well wouldn't it be good to learn before trying to also acclimate a wild caught at the same time?

AHH I have been procrastinating a bit the levels of chameleon keeping. I have been meaning to start a thread about this subject as there are many levels even for the advanced keepers. However being in and out of the house and just busy even when I am home it is taking much longer than I expected to properly start this thread. I'm going to make an attempt to start this subject tonight.