Are imports ok?

[Kent67]

Of course I also agree that a cbb veiled or panther is best for a beginner; I just wrote that article saying exactly that! BUT, when I started keeping chameleons veileds weren't even on the market yet, Reptiles magazine didn't exist, and the CIN was just getting going. I had to learn with wild caughts. And with some experienced friends of friends' advice to start with it was rewarding and successful enough that I'm still here playing with lizards. The point being, with the right knowledge of the species and dedication to providing what they need, beginners can be just as successful with imports as the more experienced, and I don't see a reason to automatically advise against it. I dont recall seeing anything about the OP's experience level, either, so I didn't really assume either way. Plus, sternfeldi have always seemed relatively hardy to me.

I'd rather see imported sternfeldi go to a beginner from the CF community with a real interest in the species than languishing in a pet shop for a few weeks waiting for an impulse buying beginner....

 

[CarlC]

As Kent had said earlier sometimes you do not have a choice. Some people are just not interested in keeping panthers or veilds.

Rudis is not a particularly demanding species but it is also not easy. Do your research and ask as many questions as you can. A fair amount of us on here have worked with the species so might be able to offer some advice.

This latest Tanzania shipment hasn't been here very long. If you do decided to buy the rudis I wouldn't wait much longer. The longer they are for the sale the worse they will be when they end up in your hands.

If you want rudis do it. Just be prepared for dealing with the problems a wc might bring.

Carl

 

[rshewfel]

I think where I went astray was I wasn't arguing what is best for the beginners, I was arguing what is best for the chameleons. I do think beginners can be successful with wild caught chameleons. However, I feel that being in a hobby that puts wild caught animals in cages we have a responsibility to support the breeders in order to develop captive bred populations.

Probably the reason that rudis are not readily available in captivity is because you can buy them for $50 at a pet shop and forums like this are supporting doing just that. I completely disagree with what is happining in this tread. I think wild caught should go to breeders and beginners should buy from breeders. This has nothing to do with the ease of keeping the chameleons, it has to do with reducing the demands on wild populations. Sure you can't persuade every beginner not to buy a wild caught but this tread just tried to talk someone into buying one that was leaning toward buying captive bred.

Just so everyone knows. I am new to this forum but I am not new to chameleons . I have over 10 years experience with keeping chameleons in captivity and have worked with around 20 different species. I purchase my first chameleon in 94.

 

[Kent67]

I totally get your point and don't disagree with it. However, I'm not aware of a single commercial or hobbyist scale breeder that has consistently produced this species in a long time. They retail for $50, are not easy to raise as babies, and have relatively low numbers of offspring per year so there's not much incentive from the commercial side. Again, I don't know what the OP's experience level is because it was never stated here but judging from trends over the last number of years I think we're more likely to see babies of species like this available from a hobbyist (even a beginner) on CF than from a commercial breeder. If there was a breeder to support that would be great. In the absence of such, why not encourage someone with a real interest in the species to become that breeder?

 

[jpm995]

If the owner can set up a proper cage and enviornment which is not that hard to do, the main issues would be parasites and acclimating them. Some dealers treat for parasites [with panacure?] as standard procedure as w/c imports are usually loaded with them. I would ask the dealer if this is the case. If not the owner would have to treat them or have fecals done. Other than that only getting them hydrated and feeding would be necessary. The vet costs would probably be more than the cost of the cham. Initial cost is very high for chams but after that its just time and effort.

 

[rshewfel]

If there was a breeder to support that would be great. In the absence of such, why not encourage someone with a real interest in the species to become that breeder?

Ok. Some good points.

 

[Carlton]

John said he was going to avoid wild caught chameleons and now the senior members are trying to convince him it is ok. I'm sorry but I really do not understand that.

I wouldn't say convince that wc is OK, rather that it can be done if you do the research very well and prepare for health problems. And, understand your expectations too. Sometimes success is due to luck with wc animals. Some individuals simply get better care and are healthier to begin with. Someone who is specifically interested in working with a less common species tends to do better than someone who is only looking for a less expensive pet of any type.

 

[johncjb]

And with wc animals, doesn't the trip here with poor food and water stress them out? The online stores I asked said that they do not ship them unless they are eating well and healthy but idk how true that is

 

[CarlC]

The better dealers will make sure they are eating and drinking. Some will even give them some Panacure as a dewormer.

There is no feeding and watering on their trip here from the country of origin. They are bagged up in the country of export and not unbagged until they reach their final destination which is usually a huge importer that moves them out as fast as they get them in.

No matter how you look at it buying a WC is not for everyone. It is a big investment of time, money and resource's that sometimes results in a loss of the animal.

Healthy captive born chameleons don't just appear. The come about with hard work and a passion to succeed.

Carl

 

[rshewfel]

If you must have a rudis I purchased 6 from reptile pets direct last weekend. They arrived in very good condition. I'm sure lllreptile will have some nice ones.

I recommend taking a look at this chameleon, however. https://www.chameleonforums.com/captive-bred-carpet-chameleons-120944/