Are these horn worms too big for my veiled chameleon?

[thejewgo]

Found these in my backyard wondering if they're too big for my chameleon to eat. my chameleon is about 5-6 inches without his tail

 

[Beautiful4Ever]

He looks big enough, but something wild caught is usually given a couple of days to work anything out of their system. You do run the risk of them having something, but the size should be just fine

 

[thejewgo]

They're not too big? They're almost as long as his body not including his tail or too fat for him?

 

[DanSB]

How big are the tomatoe worms? I see nothing for size reference...

 

[thejewgo]

How big are the tomatoe worms? I see nothing for size reference...

I hope this helps as far as size for the chameleon the horn worms are probably 3-4 inches maybe

 

[MelissaB]

I thought that tomato hornworms that have eaten actual tomato leaves were toxic? The ones sold for feeders haven't eaten actual tomato leaves, they get a different chow. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[dom1959]

melissa is right...
wildcaught hornworms can be toxic, i would not risk it:

 

[Sticktongue]

I thought that tomato hornworms that have eaten actual tomato leaves were toxic? The ones sold for feeders haven't eaten actual tomato leaves, they get a different chow. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Truth be told there.

Don't feed them off.

 

[xbrokenbabydoll]

I agree. I thought if they ate the tomato plants they would be toxic. I don't think I would risk it!

 

[Video Master]

I agree, don not feed them to your cham. Don't risk the health.

 

[Beautiful4Ever]

Wow in the 1st pic...you guy looked a lot bigger lol

 

[DanSB]

I have seen where quite a few experienced keepers here feed off tomatoe worms from a pesticide free plant with no issues. The consensus seems to be as a treat / enrichment feeder they are ok. Tobacco worms off of wild plants I would definitely avoid as they condense and excrete nicotine.

That said, I think those are a little too big, I wouldn't feed them off.

 

[reptoman]

I have seen where quite a few experienced keepers here feed off tomatoe worms from a pesticide free plant with no issues. The consensus seems to be as a treat / enrichment feeder they are ok. Tobacco worms off of wild plants I would definitely avoid as they condense and excrete nicotine.

That said, I think those are a little too big, I wouldn't feed them off.

This is incorrect. If tomato worms have been collected from tomato plants they are toxic and will not kill your chameleon immediately but he could become chronically vitamin deficient as a result. I made that mistake with one of my adult panthers and he had eye and tongue issues ever since and and had to be handfed and given larger portions of supplements for the rest of his life. He lived to 5 1/2 years. Nothing is ever 100% conclusive but after researching for a long time this is the conclusion I arrived at. My advice is avoid field collected hornworms that have eaten tomato. Not worth the risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato

Plant toxicity[edit source | editbeta]
Leaves, stems, and green unripe fruit of the tomato plant contain small amounts of the toxic alkaloid tomatine.[50] They also contain solanine, a toxic alkaloid found in potato leaves and other plants in the nightshade family.[51][52] Use of tomato leaves in tea (tisane) has been responsible for at least one death.[50][51] However, levels of tomatine in foliage and green fruit are generally too small to be dangerous unless large amounts are consumed, for example, as greens. Small amounts of tomato foliage are sometimes used for flavoring without ill effect, and the green fruit is sometimes used for cooking, particularly as fried green tomatoes.[50] Compared to potatoes the amount of solanine in green or ripe tomatoes is low; however, even in the case of potatoes while solanine poisoning resulting from dosages several times normal human consumption has been demonstrated, actual cases of poisoning resulting from excessive consumption of potatoes that have high concentration of solanine are rare.[52]

 

[tkilgour]

Hornworms get HUGE! If you are in doubt, don't feed off the ones that might be too large. It would be terrible to choke your chameleon.

 

[DanSB]

This is incorrect. If tomato worms have been collected from tomato plants they are toxic and will not kill your chameleon immediately but he could become chronically vitamin deficient as a result. I made that mistake with one of my adult panthers and he had eye and tongue issues ever since and and had to be handfed and given larger portions of supplements for the rest of his life. He lived to 5 1/2 years. Nothing is ever 100% conclusive but after researching for a long time this is the conclusion I arrived at. My advice is avoid field collected hornworms that have eaten tomato. Not worth the risk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomato

Plant toxicity[edit source | editbeta]
Leaves, stems, and green unripe fruit of the tomato plant contain small amounts of the toxic alkaloid tomatine.[50] They also contain solanine, a toxic alkaloid found in potato leaves and other plants in the nightshade family.[51][52] Use of tomato leaves in tea (tisane) has been responsible for at least one death.[50][51] However, levels of tomatine in foliage and green fruit are generally too small to be dangerous unless large amounts are consumed, for example, as greens. Small amounts of tomato foliage are sometimes used for flavoring without ill effect, and the green fruit is sometimes used for cooking, particularly as fried green tomatoes.[50] Compared to potatoes the amount of solanine in green or ripe tomatoes is low; however, even in the case of potatoes while solanine poisoning resulting from dosages several times normal human consumption has been demonstrated, actual cases of poisoning resulting from excessive consumption of potatoes that have high concentration of solanine are rare.[52]

It is funny, bird and reptile sources all officially say don't feed off wild hornworms, but people do it all the time without ill effects. You're the first person I've heard linking I'll effects from feeding hornworms off the bush, and I'm not entirely sure there is a strong link there.

But you're right, popular belief is that they carry toxins and are bad and it needs to be mentioned. However, until I can find more than a speculative connection I will be highly suspicious of the belief they are actually toxic to feed in small quantities.

 

[reptoman]

It is funny, bird and reptile sources all officially say don't feed off wild hornworms, but people do it all the time without ill effects. You're the first person I've heard linking I'll effects from feeding hornworms off the bush, and I'm not entirely sure there is a strong link there.

But you're right, popular belief is that they carry toxins and are bad and it needs to be mentioned. However, until I can find more than a speculative connection I will be highly suspicious of the belief they are actually toxic to feed in small quantities.

http://www.chameleonnews.com/05DecCaruthers.html
Another source supporting the theory that you should not feed wild horns to your chameleon. I am convinced it is more than popular belief and not worth the risk even in small quantities.

 

[thejewgo]

Thanks everyone for the replies