AutoFeeder: Your thoughts?

[Tyzoone]

Hey awesome people! I'm sure this has been mentioned several times but with my experience in prototyping I truly have the opportunity to make something helpful but on the other hand don't want any wasted effort. With that being said I have come to you (the EXPERTS) for help!

1: Do you see a demand for an automatic feeder dispenser?

2: Have you come across any that work well?

3: How willing would you be to buy one if a decent one existed out there?

I've been kicking around some prototypes and hope to get some good feedback from you guys as always as I progress.

The dilemma I know I had was that at the time I acquired my first chameleon I was then simultaneously asked to work crazy amounts of over time! And knowing my wife wouldn't get near my feeders I stressed constantly during these few weeks of only being able to give my chameleon the attention he needed when I wasn't working these crazy hours. FYI I had an old iPod touch with the camera on so I could watch him while I was at work (a bit creep I know!).

My thinking is that it would have been awesome to have been able to stick my feeders in an auto rotating dispenser of some sort that could rotate and drop feeders into some form of cricket cup so my little guy could access them. I was thinking this could rotate and dispense feeders from containers automatically for up to 3 to 4 days (2 to 3 times each day) depending on how long you have to be away. The real dilemma is keeping the feeders fed themselves during these few days and not dispensing their food and nutrients into the cricket cup with them that could be a joking hazard for your cham.

Now let me state I'm not trying to encourage people being absent or neglectful while owning such amazing creatures that are ever deserving of their attention! I was just thinking about those rare few days when you have to be away and don't want to burden others to come take care of them or genuinely can't find someone willing enough.

Water is easily automated by misting and lighting can be easily set to timers as well! Why not live feeder distribution?

Thanks in advance!

 

[DragoLikesReptiles]

I already thought of that invention and I thought it would be a great idea. The only problem is getting the feeders to come out! Silkworms, and other caterpillars stick to walls. I'd be willing to pay about $80-$60. You can keep like an area where the feeders can get their food, and won't go into a feeder cup for your animals to eat (that would be bad). I would love that personally.

 

[Tyzoone]

Yeah I think everyone whose owned a cham has thought up something like this LOL. The prototype I'm gonna test will work great for Crickets and roaches but I agree about the worms; They are another ballgame. The plastic compartments would have to be completely frictionless and even then who knows if worms won't stick to it. I guess that's the reason for prototyping Thanks for your feedback Drago!

 

[DragoLikesReptiles]

That seems like a great idea since there isn't really any competition for that kind of product. You're welcome.

 

[absolutbill]

My concern would be supplementation. I know you said this is for those rare cases, and I completely understand that. However, for every one of us who used an automatic dispenser for the "right" reasons, there would be 2 more keepers who would use it in a neglectful manner.

I just lost a 3 1/2 year old male veiled, because he was a shy eater, letting all the dust fall off his feeders before deciding to eat, resulting in MBD, $400 in vet bills, and the worst 2 weeks of my life. Just my 2 cents, and perhaps this is just too raw for me, but I think it could lead to issues. For what it's worth I do have my lights and mister on timers so I'm not opposed to convenience.

 

[Tyzoone]

Sorry to hear about your veiled absolutbill. So your concern is that the calcium and multi vitamin dust would fall off of the bugs by the time they were dispensed with by the device? That is a very valid concern. I guess one would have to add extra dust or even leave a small layer of dust in the bottom of the individual compartments that the feeder would crawl around on so he would stay dusted until the bitter end Hmmm I'll have to incorporate this in to my brainstormings. Thanks for your feedback.

 

[absolutbill]

That's exactly what I mean. Depending on how crafty you made this auto-feeder, you could have a place at the end of it right as the feeder is being dispensed into the cage that somehow dusted the bug. In my mind I'm picturing the bug triggering a switch/lever that dumped the dust on them, but that seems a bit outlandish to me.

Like I said, this could be very useful for a long weekend away if everything else was automated and 1 day of feeding without dust wouldn't be the end of the world. I just worry about the lazy owners of the world who look at this as a shortcut for everyday feedings.

 

[Rufi0]

I've thought about this for the odd occasion where I know i'm not going to be home the next morning to feed my chameleon. I was going to experiment with an automatic cat food dispenser filled with a portion of locusts placed at the bottom of the enclosure.

http://www.edogaustralia.com.au/image/data/feeder/QQ图片20140805123802.jpg

The tray flips open and the locusts are released and work their way up to the top of the enclosure where the light is.

A few points which have stopped me going ahead with this.

1) My chameleon never really goes down to the bottom of his cage, but I'd be terrified he would be near the dispenser when it flips open and get hurt.

2) If I dusted the locusts when I put them in how much would be left on them when they come out and make their way up to the top.

For a dusting solution maybe you could look at how nature "dusts" insects. Like how a flower puts pollen on a pollinating insect. Maybe an exit tube with bristles covered in calc dust

To be honest I'm sceptical about wether an automated feeding system will work or should work for that matter. For me it would only be a luxury to be there in-between feedings if I wouldn't be there in the morning. However I could just as easily not put food in the cage and wait till the next day to feed him properly.

There's also too many factors for things to go wrong. How can the livefood dispenser handle being misted? Are there vents so the insects can breathe but at the same time will it let too much humidity in turning the insects food mouldy? How do you ensure the livefood wants to come out when the mechanism opens? Is it mechanically safe if your chameleon is sitting on it when it activates? How does it dust the insects? How can you provide a variety of different insects are they all put in the same mechanism or do you have multiple feeder trays?

There are just too many questions that would make me paranoid about relying on it. Plus I rather enjoy feeding my Chameleon

 

[Tyzoone]

Thanks for the thoughts RUfi0. The more I think about this contraption the more I realize it could very potentially be utilized by neglectful people to get out of their responsibilities as a cham owner. So Ive been waiting for the response from this forum to dictate pursuing this idea any further.

Beside this point I have designed a device that is completely outside of the cage (which make misting a non-issue) and also drops the feeders into a cricketcup or whatever people are using through a small funnel that will have to punch through the screen at the top of the cage. Sadly the outer mesh will have to be modified to the diameter of the funnels tube through which the feeders will drop. Can't figure a way around this but it's better than having a whole contraption within your cage.

I'll be using something similar to this one for the actual cricket cup below the funnel within the cage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1acx7nkCLg

So they will drop through the top of the cricket cup and land at the bottom and climb up the side wall of the mesh. I dont like the idea of free roaming feeders within the cage as I've hear too many horror stories of them biting chameleons at night.

I've been researching that feeders (crickets especially) can stay alive for roughly 7 days or a little more without food or water but this means that at that point they've probably passed their gutload and un-dusted themselves so I had plans of making a feeder that would only go for four days or maybe five.

Dusting is another ball game. The only solution I can find is if the feeders are heavily dusted at the time of inserting them into their individual compartments. However if you are properly gutloading your feeders how necessary is it to even worry about dusting them for those 3 or 4 days anyways?

Again thankyou for your input!

 

[Brassaxe]

I bet you could do it with compressed air and crickets or roaches.. Have an enclosure for them that as the crickets or roaches climb to get food, a nozzle with compressed air blows them out and into a cricket cup. You could use a sensor and a microcontroller that decides when to "Eject" a bug..

 

[DragoLikesReptiles]

Thanks for the thoughts RUfi0. The more I think about this contraption the more I realize it could very potentially be utilized by neglectful people to get out of their responsibilities as a cham owner. So Ive been waiting for the response from this forum to dictate pursuing this idea any further.

Beside this point I have designed a device that is completely outside of the cage (which make misting a non-issue) and also drops the feeders into a cricketcup or whatever people are using through a small funnel that will have to punch through the screen at the top of the cage. Sadly the outer mesh will have to be modified to the diameter of the funnels tube through which the feeders will drop. Can't figure a way around this but it's better than having a whole contraption within your cage.

I'll be using something similar to this one for the actual cricket cup below the funnel within the cage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1acx7nkCLg

So they will drop through the top of the cricket cup and land at the bottom and climb up the side wall of the mesh. I dont like the idea of free roaming feeders within the cage as I've hear too many horror stories of them biting chameleons at night.

I've been researching that feeders (crickets especially) can stay alive for roughly 7 days or a little more without food or water but this means that at that point they've probably passed their gutload and un-dusted themselves so I had plans of making a feeder that would only go for four days or maybe five.

Dusting is another ball game. The only solution I can find is if the feeders are heavily dusted at the time of inserting them into their individual compartments. However if you are properly gutloading your feeders how necessary is it to even worry about dusting them for those 3 or 4 days anyways?

Again thankyou for your input!

I'd be cool if a feeder cup was attached to the autofeeder.

 

[Tyzoone]

"I bet you could do it with compressed air and crickets or roaches"

Brassaxe I like the idea of using compressed air to extract the feeders however it seems like having an open compartment for all feeders would leave room for way too many variables. For example say the compressor blows and no feeders are in the compressors path to blow them out? Or all of them are there all together. The plan is to guarantee that once the compartment releases the feeders into the cup that they will be guaranteed to drop out every single time. I think having small, individual compartments could rectify this.

I've mocked a contraption up in 3d that I'll run an animation with to see what you guys think. As I said I dig the idea of using compressed air or possibly an electrical rotary of some sort.

 

[Brassaxe]

Brassaxe I like the idea of using compressed air to extract the feeders however it seems like having an open compartment for all feeders would leave way too many variables. For example say the compressor blows and no feeders are in the compressors path to blow them out? Or all of them are there all together. The plan is to guarantee that once the compartment releases the feeders into the cup that they will be guaranteed to drop out every single time. The plan is to have individual compartments to rectify this.

I've mocked a contraption up in 3d that I'll run an animation with to see what you guys think. As I said I dig the idea of using compressed air or possibly an electrical rotary of some sort.

You could have the nozzle be small enough that the air stream would only blast one bug out even if there were ones right next to it. And a sensor to activate that nozzle would only detect bugs in a tiny area.. Also a tiny vibration sensor in the cup could detect if the bug actually flies out and into the cup. If not, the system resets and the next bug in front of the nozzle sensor would get a blast of air.. The cycle could repeat until the system detects a successful bug ejection. And it could all be on a timer so the air nozzle would only get activated at a set time after the last one got blasted out.

 

[Tyzoone]

Hey guys,

So here is my concept so far. Still needs some love and I need to figure out the exact type of motor this thing would require. For all you engineer types would you recommend some kind of rotary switch of some type?

All It requires is some kind of incremental rotation of sorts and I like that. I prefer less moving parts and this way there's no need for a complicated setup and (I'll have to test this) but I think it removes all variables at this point.

I will have to ensure all surfaces within the compartments are "climb" free and as smooth as possible so feeders are restricted to staying on the ground.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SzgbAWs104

 

[Tyzoone]

Also the cricket cup isn't necessarily going to work imho. I wanted to pitch the extractor part but threw together a potential design for a different type of cricket cup as well….

 

[Scout]

Your 3d model looked legit! I think you should try to actually make one. I would invest for sure. The cup at the bottom looks a little flimsy but I wouldn't even use that in general, my Chams don't like cups.

 

[Rufi0]

I love the 3D model, i look forward to seeing this progress. I had a thought recently regarding your project. Have you considered calci-worms / phoenix worms as a feeder for the autofeeder. I saw a Black soldier fly prototype online that a student created http://www.kunger.at/161540/1591397/overview/farm-432-insect-breeding

If you could have some sort of calci worm self harvester connected to the enclosure you wouldn't have to worry about dispensing the insect as they would crawl up and drop into your feeder cup when they are ready at different intervals and you wouldn't have to worry about dusting in terms of calcium as they are high in calcium already.

Those that don't get eaten and manage to pupate would turn into the black soldier fly which your chameleon can enjoy hunting and eating also.

 

[Tyzoone]

I haven't researched soldier flies very much but I like the idea Rufi0. I'm trying to design this in a way that nearly any type of live feeder can be used in the friction free compartments be it worms,crickets, dubias etc. worms may be tricky as they can stick to nearly any surface however, I'm sure there's a good long while of testing in the works I have a prototype that's getting very close and I'll share more as it progresses.

My biggest concern is mitigating the movement of the insects so that they absolutely HAVE to fall into the funnel which lands in the feeder and guarantees a meal for your cham. Feeding the cham is the most important part of this whole thing. If I venture too far into compartments to maintain feeders for prolonged periods then too many variables will be introduced, we lose the garauntee of presenting the feeders to the cham and this feeder is going to turn in to a monstrously bloated contraption on the cages top.

 

[sapphira80]

I think this is an awesome idea! I've actually thought about it myself and even looked online for an auto feeder, and couldn't find one of course. I have no brain for engineering, so it's really exciting to see someone come up with a concept!

I personally would want one for when I go on vacation/out of town for a few days (usually 3-4 at the max). I always hate asking someone to come feed my chams because 1. I know it's an inconvenience for them and 2. I don't really trust anyone else to do it right (not maliciously, just out of not knowing how to take care of a chameleon).

I also wouldn't be interested in the cup/screen at the bottom of the dispenser funnel because my guys don't cup feed. I also wouldn't be majorly concerned about supplementation because I don't supplement every single day and 3-4 days here and there won't hurt. Maybe that part could be an add on package, or a deluxe model?

Anyway, I think this is a brilliant idea and tons of people would buy one!

 

[Tyzoone]

Sapphira I totally agree! I've determined that the cups and auto feeders will be completely separate from each other so people can choose which one they'd like or both if necessary. I have found a 7 day timer I'm mounting atop a 14 compartment contraption I've found online so it will rotate once within a 7 day period and release feeders twice a day for 7 days straight. Food can be added to the compartments as well to keep feeders gut loaded and happy. Hoping I can get my orders shortly to start posting the progress!

Thanks for your feedback!