Baby veilds hatching but dying

[Brodybreaux25]

So my veilds are finally starting to hatch! But I have two problems. I don’t know when this started due to me working 12 hrs a day for the last 18 days and of the three that hatched none of them made it out of the shell. I don’t know when they started to hatch but it was long enough ago that the dead babies had a bit of white mold on them.

I know your not supposed to help them hatch, the whole survival of the fittest thing, but is there any thing I can do to make it easier for them to escape the shell on their own? Or is it just going to be what it’s going to be at this point?

This is my first hatch so I have no clue what I’m talking about but the ones that have pipped and died all appear to be fully formed and healthy looking. I’m a science nerd so I couldn’t resist taking a closer look at the ones that didn’t make it. Do the bigger ones appear to be normal sized hatchlings? The smaller ones came from eggs that died somewhat recently.

Fair warning, I find the pics below fascinating but if your easily grossed out I suggest you don’t look at these pics.

And the ones with splits, I’m assuming those will be the next to hatch?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Any one else find it strange that the shells are busted wide open but the babies are still curled up in a tight little ball? How could the shell get like that without the babies pushing it open when they break out?

 

[Chameleon Mike]

The ones with splits look like you're doing egg cutting like a ball python. The chameleons don't use a razor they have an egg tooth and don't make slits like that.

 

[NickTide]

I had this problem 20 years ago. For mine it was bad info. I was told told to let the eggs cool at night by turning off the incubator. This was common practice for panthers. After 2 or 3 days of dead babies, I took it off the timer and the babies started hatching the whole way.

 

[chameleonneeds]

It's difficult to say since you haven't actually witnessed it over the days it happened.

How long have they been incubating for and at what temperature?

My thoughts are that the eggs might not even be ready for hatching, they are close though. What I'm thinking is that you might have too much moisture in the perlite. Too much moisture can make the eggs take in too much water and one day explode. This hasn't happened to me before but I have heard about it from others. The horizontal slit across the eggs is not normal. When an egg hatches correctly it first sweats - releasing water which at the same time makes the egg decrease in size. Then the baby makes a star shaped slit at the top/bottom of the egg and it eventually pokes it's head out to breathe while still keeping it's eyes closed for a few hours to 24 hours. Then they come out, often with some yolk still attached. I leave the babies in there until they have absorbed the yolk completely.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

The ones with splits look like you're doing egg cutting like a ball python. The chameleons don't use a razor they have an egg tooth and don't make slits like that.

I have not taken a razor to anything.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

It's difficult to say since you haven't actually witnessed it over the days it happened.

How long have they been incubating for and at what temperature?

My thoughts are that the eggs might not even be ready for hatching, they are close though. What I'm thinking is that you might have too much moisture in the perlite. Too much moisture can make the eggs take in too much water and one day explode. This hasn't happened to me before but I have heard about it from others. The horizontal slit across the eggs is not normal. When an egg hatches correctly it first sweats - releasing water which at the same time makes the egg decrease in size. Then the baby makes a star shaped slit at the top/bottom of the egg and it eventually pokes it's head out to breathe while still keeping it's eyes closed for a few hours to 24 hours. Then they come out, often with some yolk still attached. I leave the babies in there until they have absorbed the yolk completely.

I think I did have too much water in the perlite, I drilled a little hole in the bottom and some came out. Too much water would explain the slits, and why the eggs look like popped water balloons.

 

[jajeanpierre]

I have not taken a razor to anything.

Are those horizontal marks slits? Which you didn't make?

When babies "pip" they slit the end of the egg in a star pattern. It is nothing like the slit you are showing.

I once had a huge really poorly calcified clutch of eggs. I almost threw the whole clutch out when laid because they were so poorly calcified. Some eggs ended up splitting open as the eggs/babies grew. The shells were not strong enough to handle the pressure. The eggs split maybe two months before they were due to hatch and of course the babies died. I lost about a quarter of the clutch that way. The rest hatched just fine.

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Are those horizontal marks slits? Which you didn't make?

When babies "pip" they slit the end of the egg in a star pattern. It is nothing like the slit you are showing.

I once had a huge really poorly calcified clutch of eggs. I almost threw the whole clutch out when laid because they were so poorly calcified. Some eggs ended up splitting open as the eggs/babies grew. The shells were not strong enough to handle the pressure. The eggs split maybe two months before they were due to hatch and of course the babies died. I lost about a quarter of the clutch that way. The rest hatched just fine.

Yes those marks are slits. I did not make them as Chameleon Mike implied. If you zoom in on the second pic I posted you can see that only the outermost part of the shell has split. What ever membrane is below that is still sealed.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Yes those marks are slits. I did not make them as Chameleon Mike implied. If you zoom in on the second pic I posted you can see that only the outermost part of the shell has split. What ever membrane is below that is still sealed.

Something is wrong with the shell. There is a membrane under the shell, but that membrane will have more trouble keeping bacteria and fungus out. It can be done. People (researchers and vets) can and do cut a "window" into the shell long before hatch to observe the embryo.

Don't feel bad. Be prepared to lose more, so check the box regularly and remove everything around any egg that ruptures. There is a lot of fluids around a baby that is not ready to hatch that isn't around a baby hatching at the right time. If it were me, I would make up two new boxes with fresh substrate because your substrate has been heavily contaminated by decaying babies. That's a lot different from a substrate with just eggs in it. Carefully move the eggs. Put the slit eggs in one box and the better eggs in another. That way if you experience any more egg failures, they won't contaminate the eggs that are most likely to hatch.

There are many reasons eggs are not formed properly and sometimes it just happens. I have a chicken or two that every once in awhile lay an egg without a shell.

 

[Chameleon Mike]

I have not taken a razor to anything.

I just want to apologize for implying that you cut the eggs. I know its aggravating waiting for so long for the babies to hatch and things just go wrong. I guess that the pics bothered me more then I thought. Good luck with the rest of the clutch. I'm glad that you didn't cut the eggs and I hope you are able to save the rest of them.

 

[Amadamarie2555]

These pictures are so neat!!

 

[Sampson87]

Sorry for your loss this is really sad to see something like this happen. To anyone that ever plans on breeding, please do your research and ask questions before attempting this. You dont want this to happen considering most chameleon eggs normally have a high success hatch rate if done correctly.

 

[jajeanpierre]

Sorry for your loss this is really sad to see something like this happen. To anyone that ever plans on breeding, please do your research and ask questions before attempting this. You dont want this to happen considering most chameleon eggs normally have a high success hatch rate if done correctly.

@Sampson87 I take offense to your implication that somehow this is the breeder's fault that research would have prevented.

Let's just start with your warning to anyone planning breeding to do their research. I hate to break it to you, but their is very little scientific literature about breeding chameleons. It is just not written down anywhere and most of the people who answer questions have little experience or special knowledge.

No one knows why the eggs failed. I know many reason why eggs might have poorly calcified shells anywhere from too many eggs in the clutch or a female that has produced many clutches so her reserves are too low, to MBD, to just plain mistakes in the reproductive system. To suggest that research could prevent this is suggesting the breeder did a bad job. @Brodybreaux25

 

[chameleonneeds]

I completely agree with jajeanpierre.

It isn't your fault Brody. Researching and following the book doesn't always prevent something going wrong. It could even be genetically inherited problems of the female or the pairing. We must remember that even with everything done perfectly/by the book - that doesn't rule out the possibility of something going wrong.

By the way I was on reptile forums UK reading a piece by a member who had problems with chameleon eggs that instead of having the usual droplets at sweating, they rather had a wet slimy coating. The person found the exit for the fluids and literally covered them with a tiny bit of candle wax. This is radical, and I don't recommend it.. but it was interesting. I might add that the person had no problems from doing this and the babies hatched perfectly.

 

[Amanda.lynn]

I'm sorry this happened.

I don't know anything about this but my condolences.

 

[nightanole]

Pretty sure those eggs are not hatching, they are bursting from a bacterial infection. As others have stated, eggs sweat and dimple, they dont grow large as split.

 

[Amanda.lynn]

How do the bacterial infectiona happen? Is there anything they can do?

 

[Brodybreaux25]

Pretty sure those eggs are not hatching, they are bursting from a bacterial infection. As others have stated, eggs sweat and dimple, they dont grow large as split.

When I first made this post I thought the eggs were hatching, they weren’t. The first few I lost was due to them bursting. Weather they burst from bacteria or too much water in the vermiculite well never know. I’m thinking it is probably a little bit of both. I think bacteria probably explains the discoloration better than any other ideas we’ve had....

I candled all the eggs last night and I can still see movement in almost all of them.

Since we last spoke no more eggs have split but several are starting to sweat. Around lunch today we had this little guy crawl out of one of the eggs that had a split in it!

 

[nightanole]

Victory!