background foam wall for panther

[jamest0o0]

Hey guys so I have some great stuff foam and dragon strand atrium. I was going to go out today and get supplies for a wall to anchor to the dragon ledges with branches and flower pots foamed in place. I was looking at a few threads on here that have done similar and I noticed they covered the foam with soil/moss. I was wondering how safe that would be for the cham(panther)? Is there something you guys would recommend for adding texture to the foam that would be safe to use?

Also as far as the background, I was thinking of using some sort of light sheet of plastic that I could cut easily and wouldn't get ruined by humidity/moisture. Anything in particular I should go with or avoid?

Lastly I live in PA, I'm looking for some branches that are safe to use. Could I just use anything from the forest if it is boiled? I was also going to check out some stores, any come to mind that would have a good selection?

Anyone with experience on the subject I'd love to know your input, thanks!

 

[Link]

Just my perspective everybody has their own ways of doing things. I never use the background. And if you are going to use sticks or wood from outside I live near the beach so I collect driftwood. I use a 4 to 1 water to bleach for about 2 days of soaking. The best thing about this site is everyone can give you information and you can use and take what you want. Hope this helps

 

[XxSepiorxX]

Hey guys so I have some great stuff foam and dragon strand atrium. I was going to go out today and get supplies for a wall to anchor to the dragon ledges with branches and flower pots foamed in place. I was looking at a few threads on here that have done similar and I noticed they covered the foam with soil/moss. I was wondering how safe that would be for the cham(panther)? Is there something you guys would recommend for adding texture to the foam that would be safe to use?

Also as far as the background, I was thinking of using some sort of light sheet of plastic that I could cut easily and wouldn't get ruined by humidity/moisture. Anything in particular I should go with or avoid?

Lastly I live in PA, I'm looking for some branches that are safe to use. Could I just use anything from the forest if it is boiled? I was also going to check out some stores, any come to mind that would have a good selection?

Anyone with experience on the subject I'd love to know your input, thanks!

Well, I wouldn't use the background because some (not all) chameleons hate some colors. My chameleon used to hate red.
Ok, let me make this clear: You can't just go to the forest and grab any plant.
I don't think plastic would be messed up by water.
The foam maybe dangerous to chameleons, but I don't know because I don't have foam.

 

[jamest0o0]

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/diy-living-wall-turtorial-with-pictures.129951/

I'm talking about something similar to this. I know the foam is safe, but i don't like the shiny look to it and wanted to coat it with something more natural. I heard moss or soil could be eaten though and wasn't sure how dangerous that would be?

 

[Furciferocious]

I've been looking at doing something like this also. My opinions on your questions:
Adding texture: The build threads I've seen use soil, moss, and ground coconut coir. Nobody has reported problems with any of it that I've seen. You're going to have the same stuff in your pots so I don't see how it's more dangerous glued to a wall. Some people just leave the black foam exposed without a covering. The only caution is that neither foam product has UV stabilizers in it, so if exposed to sunlight outside it will probably break down in a year or two.
Background: The background needs to be rigid enough to support the weight of the foam and plants, and waterproof. Though it may not get that wet depending on how you treat the edges and position your misting nozzles.
Sticks: There are lots of methods published to sterilize sticks, just don't get green ones. You can also look at craft stores like Michaels or Hobby Lobby. Places that sell parrots will have fairly substantial perching branches for sale, but those can be pricey.

 

[jamest0o0]

Didn't think about the UVB good point. I see people talk about impaction a lot with eating soil or whatever, does this happen often? How do they survive in the wild if every time they eat it is risking their life lol? Would the coconut coir, soil, or moss cause this problem? If not I might just cover it with all of those. Also any chance a mold problem could arise from any of this? I was going to use the coconut and playsand 50/50 for potting soil and then cover the pots with large marble stones i bought at home depot today.

As for the backboard base any recommended materials that would fit the waterproof/sturdy criteria?

 

[Furciferocious]

Didn't think about the UVB good point. I see people talk about impaction a lot with eating soil or whatever, does this happen often? How do they survive in the wild if every time they eat it is risking their life lol? Would the coconut coir, soil, or moss cause this problem? If not I might just cover it with all of those. Also any chance a mold problem could arise from any of this? I was going to use the coconut and playsand 50/50 for potting soil and then cover the pots with large marble stones i bought at home depot today.

As for the backboard base any recommended materials that would fit the waterproof/sturdy criteria?

I think impaction is more of a theoretical risk than an actual problem. Everybody worries about it but how often do you see reports that it happened? Since everything is glued down, ingestion via "collateral sticking" while feeding won't happen. If the chameleon starts gnawing on it like a rat, well, then you'll have to go to plan B. (Let us know if that happens.)
I haven't seen reports from people on how their foam walls are holding up, but I think if the wall can dry between mistings then mold should be minimal. You might want to ask some of these questions on a dart frog forum, since they do more of this kind of enclosure with a much wetter environment.
The build threads provide good examples of backboard base materials.

 

[Decadancin]

I agree with @Furciferocious about impaction, but there is still a risk. I would tend to avoid mosses and loose items that can be ingested, but not necessarily soil. I have had my veiled eat some moss when he was younger (not accidentally, he wanted to ) and he did have a heck of a time passing it. For those with bio-active set ups I would think that leaf litter and debris would be desirable. As for the stones covering the soil, I do this to reduce the run off of soil during heavier misting sessions, not to stop my veiled from eating the dirt.

 

[Link]

I've had a lot of problem with substrates. I find it's easier to keep it simple. For their own sakes. They ingest it I can cause a lot of complications later on. Now we want to make it look nice. If that's what you're looking at suggest putting some topsoil just over newspaper so it's easy to change. I have problems with them ingesting plants as it is no reason to bring other thing and to the process. That's just what I think. Also don't take my word for it there's a lot more experienced people out there than me take everybody's advice. And see what you think will be best. Pretty much trial by fire

 

[PJK]

Personally, I used the pond and stone great stuff, It is awesome. Pretty easy to use and seems to hold any branches I have bolted into it. I just hated the look of the black foam so I looked on a dart frog board to get some guidance and there are two approaches. Both involve coco fiber. You can either just sprinkle it onto the wet foam while it dries, which is the easy solution, or you have to wait for it to set, then apply silicone to the dried foam and spread the coco fiber. Personally I wish I went with the first approach, because I can tell you from experience, the second is a huge pain in the ass.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thank you everyone for the input. I think i'm going to cover the foam with the fiber just to give it that look and try to keep it simple. I want the bottom to be empty for now, i was just planning to do this on the walls. I wanted to have branches and plant pots tied to the ledges and foamed in place. From what i read panthers aren't as likely to eat random stuff in the cage, that's usually an issue with veileds right?

 

[WAMBO]

I picked up recently fallen branches, bleached them ;1:10 water mix, and baked them for 30 - 40 minutes at 350. But since they were dead, the bark was falling off and I had to remove it. They work great but it was easier to buy 5 ft and 6 ft bamboo sticks at Home Depot garden center for around $3 for 6. That's were I bought a 30 inch washing machine drain pan for $20 too.

 

[jamest0o0]

I was thinking about bamboo, but it seems to slick, how's it working out for you? wanted to have branches for the most natural look possible. Also do you guys use those reptile vines? I think they only come in artificial?

Speaking of home depot i hate/love going there and get lost thinking of all the possibilities haha.

 

[WAMBO]

The bamboo stakes from Home Depot work fine. They are not slippery even after Mist King drenches them. The 6 pack of 5 ft stakes are $2.17 and the 6 pack of 6 ft stakes are $3.27. If you don't like them, toss them. But I also use 2 artificial vines.
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardener-s-Blue-Ribbon-5-ft-Bamboo-Plant-Stakes-6-Pack-BB5/100619188
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Gardener-s-Blue-Ribbon-6-ft-Bamboo-Garden-Stakes-6-Pack-BB6/100555811
You can also use them to build a frame inside the cage to secure vines and other branches or bamboo. Maybe hang a plant, although I haven't tried it yet. I plan on using it to make a frame inside to hold vines and more bamboo so that I do not need to secure it against the cage or it's frame.

 

[jamest0o0]

So i was thinking of making some sort of pillar with the bamboo and covering it with great stuff foam and coconut fiber. The plan is to have it look kind of like a tree or something. If it doesn't work out like i'm imagining i can always just take it out.

 

[Carlton]

FWIW, I don't like using backgrounds in cham setups for several reasons:

I like to give my cages more ambient daylight rather than close them in.
Unless you need to block the cham's view of something, I think they appreciate watching the world around them from their territory.
I prefer to create a habitat based around large potted shrubs that fill the volume of the cage space, rather than a terrestrial wall the cham wouldn't spend time on.
More structural "stuff" in the cage that isn't necessary for the cham to climb on and is wet much of the time is a breeding ground for little molds, fungi, and hard to clean.
Its a place for loose feeders to hide, and more for them to chew on (and then the cham gets to eat whatever the bugs ate later).
Climbing space in the typical cham cage is at a premium, so why fill it with something the cham won't really use?

Oh, and BTW, an earlier comment about why we need to worry about them ingesting substrates...in the wild a cham may rarely if ever go all the way down on the ground where it could eat loose bits of bark, leaves, soil etc. either accidentally while hunting or on purpose, but in captive situations their space is a lot more restricted. The chance that they roam the short distance to the cage floor and shoot at something is a lot higher. And, as the substrate receives poop, urates, shed skin, dead feeders, dead leaves, and whatever gets rinsed off the cage plants on a daily basis, it can get grungy fairly fast compared to the ground under a wild cham's much larger dispersed territory that gets washed by rain. We don't have any statistics on how often this happens, but the concern is legitimate.

 

[Goose502]

Using the pond rated great stuff is aquarium safe on its own, I prefer using the method of slathering it with aquarium safe silicone and sticking moss/dirt/etc to the silicone. All of those products are UV rated, won't break down in heat, and will be covered with dirt anyway. I tried the easy way and bought a preformed rock background from universal rocks. I love it, non-toxic, designed to be submerged in water, and it looks crazy good! I learned right away, the Cham can climb right up it if it wants, it's a foam based material, so it's soft enough for their nails to get a grip in and not get caught, and it's pretty much indestructible.

 

[jamest0o0]

Thanks guys forgot to respond, but i have a pretty good plan in mind, appreciate the great info! I can't wait for the supplies to get delivered so i can get this going, it's been taking awhile, but at least this way i am learning a ton and feel prepared for the cham once i get him.

So i'm having problems finding good branches at any stores around and online sites charge a ton for just a couple sticks. I live in PA, are there some trees that have safe branches i can collect from around here? I'm afraid to pick up stuff with toxins or anything dangerous.

 

[WAMBO]

Many of us use bamboo like posted above, but you can cut some fresh branches, wash them and use them. I soaked mine in 1:10 water:bleach, then rinsed and soaked in water, but the bark was liquifying so I removed it. Then I baked at 350 for 30 minutes+. That's not really needed if you just wash them down well [unless they have been sprayed with insecticide]. So I use both bamboo and yard branches, like many other here.

 

[jamest0o0]

Cool, i plan to use both. Are any yard branches fine to use as long as i wash and cook them?