Ball Python Keepers?? Mouth Rot?? Help!

[ReptileLove18]

If what you have is a true black light, black lights are really iffy. There are a couple of kinds, and some of them can cause blindness in snakes. Basically, none of them are needed if you have a UTH. If the room in which you keep the snake gets really cold at night, a ceramic heat emitter, which does not emit any visible light at all, just heat, is better.

Most snake-keepers I know never use any night-lights for the full length of the night. Some of us use moonglow bulbs or red bulbs just for the evening so we can observe our snakes' nocturnal activities for awhile, then turn the lights off for the majority of the night.

Here's a link to some good, credible information about black lights:

http://www.anapsid.org/blacklight.html

If you have something like an Exo-Terra moonlight bulb, that isn't a black light, but you still don't need it.

Here's a link to some credible information about light and heat for snakes:

http://www.anapsid.org/liteheat.html

Glad you got her mouth open so you could be sure she doesn't have mouth rot! It could be the beginning of a shed, it could be a small burn, or it could be a rubbed spot; if it's any of the latter, shedding will remove most if not all of the discoloration.

Good luck!

its not a true black light, it reminds me of one, sorry to be misleading!!! its called a "moonlite reptile bulb 60 watt, simulated night time moonlight viewing of you terrarium animals, very little visible light, true deep blue glass, perfect for viewing and geating nocturnal reptiles and amphibians."

we have Central air conditioning and heat but we set it at 72 at night so use the moonlight bulb to keep her ambient temp around 75.

im so glad it does appear to be mouth rot i was very worried. im going to keep an eye on it and see what happens once she sheds

 

[Carlton]

i was thinking about that too!

i've been looking for something else, havent been able to find anything cheaper then 30 bucks at the local store ill look for a plastic shoe box or small tote and see what i can find! where can i find cork bark?

If you are that tight on funds I'd look for a lidded plastic storage box at a local big box store (KMart, Target, grocery store, Home Depot, Walmart, whatever). It can be opaque or colored...doesn't really matter, but I'd pick a darker one. Cut an entrance in the top or an end and melt the cut edges so they aren't rough. Soak some substrate, paper towels, a handful of moss, wood chips (not cedar or pine) to make a humid hide. You can order cork bark slabs online (Black Jungle terrarium supply often has good sized pieces), LLL Reptile, Herp Supplies, Big Apple, other websites. A local shop might have some but they might be too small.

 

[ChuWuti]

Meant to respond to Carlton's comment,

Well, considering that bps are nocturnal I doubt any sort of bulb is going to disturb her at night. It's keeping her awake during the day that matters, and your glass cage is going to be pretty bright then. I

That's true; I shouldn't have said that a BP would be disturbed by the light at night. Guess I've been posting about too many different animals today (on this forum and another) and got myself confused! sheeeesh . . . I should know better; I've only had BPs for over a decade!! (I guess compared to the colubrids that have been in my life for 40 years, a little over a decade is not very long; still, I should be more careful!). Thanks for catching that, Carlton!

Main things that are important in this situation are

1) the moonlight bulb is NOT a true black light, so that's not going to create any problems;

2) Reptilelove18 is working on improving hides and humidity, which will help shed, health, and overall husbandry-related issues; and

3) overall, things don't look to be too bad at all!

BPs are some of my favorite snakes--I take mine to schools and a summer youth camp at a local library that our local herp society sets up for educational purposes, because they are so laid-back. A couple of them have been handled by 700 kids in one day, and neither one ever struck at anyone! They were definitely tired by the end of the day, and just stayed in their hides for the next 24 hours, but then they were back to normal.

 

[Carlton]

Meant to respond to Carlton's comment,

That's true; I shouldn't have said that a BP would be disturbed by the light at night. Guess I've been posting about too many different animals today (on this forum and another) and got myself confused! sheeeesh . . . I should know better; I've only had BPs for over a decade!! (I guess compared to the colubrids that have been in my life for 40 years, a little over a decade is not very long; still, I should be more careful!). Thanks for catching that, Carlton!

Main things that are important in this situation are

1) the moonlight bulb is NOT a true black light, so that's not going to create any problems;

2) Reptilelove18 is working on improving hides and humidity, which will help shed, health, and overall husbandry-related issues; and

3) overall, things don't look to be too bad at all!

BPs are some of my favorite snakes--I take mine to schools and a summer youth camp at a local library that our local herp society sets up for educational purposes, because they are so laid-back. A couple of them have been handled by 700 kids in one day, and neither one ever struck at anyone! They were definitely tired by the end of the day, and just stayed in their hides for the next 24 hours, but then they were back to normal.

I love having my bp...he's been the honored guest at kids' birthday parties, scout meetings, and our local school. Up here in AK the kids grow up never getting a chance to meet a snake...especially a nice mellow one in contrast to all the hype on Animal Planet created by fools prancing around in khaki shorts annoying cobras in Africa.

 

[ChuWuti]

I love having my bp...he's been the honored guest at kids' birthday parties, scout meetings, and our local school. Up here in AK the kids grow up never getting a chance to meet a snake...especially a nice mellow one in contrast to all the hype on Animal Planet created by fools prancing around in khaki shorts annoying cobras in Africa.

ROFL!!! You are sooooo right about those fools! My boys used to love to watch Steve Irwin, and every time he grabbed a snake without looking or using a hook, I would remind them that he was NOT using safe handling techniques! I taught them how to identify venomous snakes--I'm in Oklahoma, where we have several--and how to catch and handle snakes safely! Irwin used to irritate the heck out of me . . . but his show was fun to watch! Still, he was one of those fools!

 

[DavidBuchan]

ROFL!!! You are sooooo right about those fools! My boys used to love to watch Steve Irwin, and every time he grabbed a snake without looking or using a hook, I would remind them that he was NOT using safe handling techniques! I taught them how to identify venomous snakes--I'm in Oklahoma, where we have several--and how to catch and handle snakes safely! Irwin used to irritate the heck out of me . . . but his show was fun to watch! Still, he was one of those fools!

Agree 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself. I saw another fool this morning on tv.......my lecturer showed us a video. Credit to her, it wasn't that bad (not like Steve )....but she pointed it out to us and reminded us of the proper techniques for snake-handling.

 

[ReptileLove18]

If you are that tight on funds I'd look for a lidded plastic storage box at a local big box store (KMart, Target, grocery store, Home Depot, Walmart, whatever). It can be opaque or colored...doesn't really matter, but I'd pick a darker one. Cut an entrance in the top or an end and melt the cut edges so they aren't rough. Soak some substrate, paper towels, a handful of moss, wood chips (not cedar or pine) to make a humid hide. You can order cork bark slabs online (Black Jungle terrarium supply often has good sized pieces), LLL Reptile, Herp Supplies, Big Apple, other websites. A local shop might have some but they might be too small.

thanks for the awesome advice im going to check it out! try to find two small ones, one for the cool side and one for the warm side for my baby girl! and then look online at the sites you gave me for cork slabs
speaking of which i need to weigh her again, i weighed her right before her shed last month and i want to see what she weighs now. thats how i determined she was a lot younger then the pet store told me she was when they sold her to me.

Meant to respond to Carlton's comment,

That's true; I shouldn't have said that a BP would be disturbed by the light at night. Guess I've been posting about too many different animals today (on this forum and another) and got myself confused! sheeeesh . . . I should know better; I've only had BPs for over a decade!! (I guess compared to the colubrids that have been in my life for 40 years, a little over a decade is not very long; still, I should be more careful!). Thanks for catching that, Carlton!

Main things that are important in this situation are

1) the moonlight bulb is NOT a true black light, so that's not going to create any problems;

2) Reptilelove18 is working on improving hides and humidity, which will help shed, health, and overall husbandry-related issues; and

3) overall, things don't look to be too bad at all!

BPs are some of my favorite snakes--I take mine to schools and a summer youth camp at a local library that our local herp society sets up for educational purposes, because they are so laid-back. A couple of them have been handled by 700 kids in one day, and neither one ever struck at anyone! They were definitely tired by the end of the day, and just stayed in their hides for the next 24 hours, but then they were back to normal.

haha its been a long week for everyone

thanks for all the help and reassurance. my boyfriend was asleep when i got off work last night at 11:30 so i wasnt able to get the pics :/ but i promise ill have them up this afternoon for everyone.
yes im working on getting better hides for her and ive already adjusted her humidity!

i love bps as well, they are so docile and intriguing. im planning on taking my girl into one of my classes soon and showing her off! reptiles are the best

 

[ChuWuti]

speaking of which i need to weigh her again, i weighed her right before her shed last month and i want to see what she weighs now. thats how i determined she was a lot younger then the pet store told me she was when they sold her to me.

Surprisingly, weight can have little to do with age; weight gain is very strongly correlated with what/how much they've been fed.

Typical hatchling weight is around 65-90 grams.

I have two rescues. One weighed 95 grams at 6 months; the other weighed 98 grams at ONE YEAR.

It was very clear that neither had been adequately fed.

Another example: our first BP, which we got at a national chain pet store, was being fed a single mouse pinky per week and was supposedly 6 months old. Though we didn't have a good scales at the time (this was years ago), after my more recent experiences and with what I've learned since we got him, I'm now quite certain that he was underweight as well. arrrrghggh

Not anymore, though!

So it's entirely possible, even likely, that whoever you got her from (pet store?? I couldn't find a post where you said, but I may have just skipped over it accidentally) had been underfeeding her.

It's great that you're monitoring her weight, though--that way you can determine when your prey size needs to go up. For maintenance, she needs to get about 10% of her body weight per week, but that should be applied to an adult. As yours is young, about 20% would be better for now.

Caveat--I'm not a fan of power feeding, so these are my recommendations, but others will recommend higher amounts. I don't like to power feed because I think it leads to obesity and other health issues.

 

[ReptileLove18]

ahhhh! a pet store sold her to me, they had gotten her from a breeder. i weighed her 3 weeks after i brought her home, 3 hopper mice after i brought her home, and she weighed 85 grams... im also a member of a ball python forum and when i posted her weight they thought she was a very new hatchling based on her weight, but as you said who knows they could have not been feeding her well, they told me they were feeding her a hopper a week.

i havent weighed her since, its been 5 weeks so im going to weigh her again when i get home and see what she weighs now.

i agree with not power feeding, ive never done that as i dont want my snakes to be obese i want them to get the food that they need to be healthy

 

[ChuWuti]

Were they feeding her a hopper mouse or a hopper rat? BPs should be eating rats, otherwise you're going to find yourself feeding $$ of mice each week when she grows up!

It sounds to me as if she could use a little feeding up. As she's so small, about 20% of her body weight is probably a good figure to aim for. At 85 grams, I would be offering her rat fuzzies, or maybe something a little older/bigger, depending on how wide they are--about 1.25-1.5 times wider than her main body is fine--and enough to total about 17 to 20 grams. If she takes that and acts like she could eat more, the next time offer her about 25-30 or possibly even 40 grams. As she grows, she'll definitely want more! As she attains adult size, you'll want to reduce her to a maintenance diet of about 10% of her body weight so she doesn't become obese.

20-25% is not power feeding, so while she'll grow reasonably fast, she won't become obese unless you continue to feed her 20% even after she attains adult size.

Keep us posted! I'd love to see pics, too! Of more than her mouth, that is!

Sandy

 

[tony19]

Were they feeding her a hopper mouse or a hopper rat? BPs should be eating rats, otherwise you're going to find yourself feeding $$ of mice each week when she grows up!

It sounds to me as if she could use a little feeding up. As she's so small, about 20% of her body weight is probably a good figure to aim for. At 85 grams, I would be offering her rat fuzzies, or maybe something a little older/bigger, depending on how wide they are--about 1.25-1.5 times wider than her main body is fine--and enough to total about 17 to 20 grams. If she takes that and acts like she could eat more, the next time offer her about 25-30 or possibly even 40 grams. As she grows, she'll definitely want more! As she attains adult size, you'll want to reduce her to a maintenance diet of about 10% of her body weight so she doesn't become obese.

20-25% is not power feeding, so while she'll grow reasonably fast, she won't become obese unless you continue to feed her 20% even after she attains adult size.

Keep us posted! I'd love to see pics, too! Of more than her mouth, that is!

Sandy

I agree power feeding is not good. and having a fat snake can cause problems. and i dont know bout you but i dont like vet bills and i like healthy animals.

 

[ReptileLove18]

Were they feeding her a hopper mouse or a hopper rat? BPs should be eating rats, otherwise you're going to find yourself feeding $$ of mice each week when she grows up!

It sounds to me as if she could use a little feeding up. As she's so small, about 20% of her body weight is probably a good figure to aim for. At 85 grams, I would be offering her rat fuzzies, or maybe something a little older/bigger, depending on how wide they are--about 1.25-1.5 times wider than her main body is fine--and enough to total about 17 to 20 grams. If she takes that and acts like she could eat more, the next time offer her about 25-30 or possibly even 40 grams. As she grows, she'll definitely want more! As she attains adult size, you'll want to reduce her to a maintenance diet of about 10% of her body weight so she doesn't become obese.

20-25% is not power feeding, so while she'll grow reasonably fast, she won't become obese unless you continue to feed her 20% even after she attains adult size.

Keep us posted! I'd love to see pics, too! Of more than her mouth, that is!

Sandy

they were feeding her hopper mice.. so far ive given her the largest hopper mice i could find too as they dont have rats available here. all ive ever fed was live food but since she needs larger food i want to switch to frozen dead food so i can order larger supplies of the right size of food for her. so what i was planning on doing was this sunday, her feeding day, get a frozen adult mouse at the petstore because they do carry them and see if she will take it. if i can get her to take the frozen food this week and next week ill order rat pups online and have them shipped to me for her! what do you think? i dont want to feed her live adult mice because im worried she might get torn up by the mouse, shes pretty little and they are really big and fast...

im posting pics up now

 

[ReptileLove18]

Pics of her snout!!

heres some pics of her snout, hopefully there are a little easier to see!!! and two of her enclosure, the enclosure is large so one pic is half of it and the other is the other half... i closed the blinds so you guys could see it better so its a little dark im sorry!

 

[ReptileLove18]

And here some pics of just here doing her thing as you asked for sandy!!

theres better ones of her in an album on my profile as well

 

[tony19]

I dont think theres anything wrong with her. she's looking pretty good vary clean.

 

[ChuWuti]

Graphic content warning!

Reptilelove18 posted,

they were feeding her hopper mice.. so far ive given her the largest hopper mice i could find too as they dont have rats available here. all ive ever fed was live food but since she needs larger food i want to switch to frozen dead food so i can order larger supplies of the right size of food for her. so what i was planning on doing was this sunday, her feeding day, get a frozen adult mouse at the petstore because they do carry them and see if she will take it. if i can get her to take the frozen food this week and next week ill order rat pups online and have them shipped to me for her! what do you think? i dont want to feed her live adult mice because im worried she might get torn up by the mouse, shes pretty little and they are really big and fast...

Smart plan! I feel quite certain she can eat an adult mouse, though maybe not a jumbo. A regular-sized adult mouse can run between 19-20 to 24-25 grams, so that's a pretty good size for her.

Switching to F/T can be a little challenging with BPs sometimes, though. Have you got any bedding/mouse poop from previous live feeders? If you do, KEEP it! There are a number of tricks to try to get them to take F/T if they decide to be finicky, though she may not be--she may just take one look and think, "DINNER!" and strike. All my rescues were that way, so switching them was really easy.

GRAPHIC CONTENT BEGINS BELOW:

I thaw my F/T in ziploc bags in hot (from the tap) water. If she doesn't seem to want to take the F/T, one trick that has worked very well for me is to slit its skull open to make it bleed and expose some brain matter. Then put it back in the plastic bag and heat the head under hot running water for about 20 seconds, then take it out and offer it. You'll likely need to twitch it some so she thinks it's alive. Keep it at least two inches away from her head and off to the side just a bit. I actually just hold mine by the tail; some people use hemostats or feeding tongs and hold it by the neck, but one of my BPs hit the feeding tongs that way and refused to touch anything attached to feeding tongs after that.

GRAPHIC CONTENT COMPLETE

If slitting the skull doesn't work, or if you don't want to do that (not my favorite thing to do), then roll the mouse in mouse poop/bedding that live mice have been on. I have never had this trick fail, so for the most recent BP I wanted to switch to F/T, I just did this first. But that was one of the rescues, so it might have eaten F/T no matter what anyway.

Also keep mouse poop for when you switch to rats--which you could do instead of going to adult mice. Roll the F/T rat in the mouse poop to help her realize that this odd-smelling critter is really food because it has some of the proper smell!

She looks great! Thanks for posting the pics! I think you're going to enjoy her a lot.

Good luck!

 

[ReptileLove18]

I dont think theres anything wrong with her. she's looking pretty good vary clean.

thank you for the input and compliment!! she says thanks too haha i guess i was just being the typical paranoid mom.. lol

 

[ReptileLove18]

Reptilelove18 posted,

Smart plan! I feel quite certain she can eat an adult mouse, though maybe not a jumbo. A regular-sized adult mouse can run between 19-20 to 24-25 grams, so that's a pretty good size for her.

Switching to F/T can be a little challenging with BPs sometimes, though. Have you got any bedding/mouse poop from previous live feeders? If you do, KEEP it! There are a number of tricks to try to get them to take F/T if they decide to be finicky, though she may not be--she may just take one look and think, "DINNER!" and strike. All my rescues were that way, so switching them was really easy.

GRAPHIC CONTENT BEGINS BELOW:

I thaw my F/T in ziploc bags in hot (from the tap) water. If she doesn't seem to want to take the F/T, one trick that has worked very well for me is to slit its skull open to make it bleed and expose some brain matter. Then put it back in the plastic bag and heat the head under hot running water for about 20 seconds, then take it out and offer it. You'll likely need to twitch it some so she thinks it's alive. Keep it at least two inches away from her head and off to the side just a bit. I actually just hold mine by the tail; some people use hemostats or feeding tongs and hold it by the neck, but one of my BPs hit the feeding tongs that way and refused to touch anything attached to feeding tongs after that.

GRAPHIC CONTENT COMPLETE

If slitting the skull doesn't work, or if you don't want to do that (not my favorite thing to do), then roll the mouse in mouse poop/bedding that live mice have been on. I have never had this trick fail, so for the most recent BP I wanted to switch to F/T, I just did this first. But that was one of the rescues, so it might have eaten F/T no matter what anyway.

Also keep mouse poop for when you switch to rats--which you could do instead of going to adult mice. Roll the F/T rat in the mouse poop to help her realize that this odd-smelling critter is really food because it has some of the proper smell!

She looks great! Thanks for posting the pics! I think you're going to enjoy her a lot.

Good luck!

i dont have any bedding but im sure i can get my hands on some from the petstore no problem thanks for the tips on getting her to swtich to F/T!!! i'll let you know how it goes!! she always snaps up the hoppers as soon as i put them in so im hoping she will take to the F/T pretty quickly. im going to try it this weekend and if it goes well this weekend and next weekend ill put in an order for rat pups online they are way cheaper even shipped and they will be the appropriate size for her for now so that will be great!!!!

thanks so much for all the input and advice! its such a relieve that she is looking good even if she does need some fattening up which im going to get to working on

 

[ReptileLove18]

i tried f/t today and they both ate it without a fuss!! im so happy!!!

i started a new thread about it so i just thought i would link it in case anyone was interested https://www.chameleonforums.com/sweet-success-106159/#post968928

thanks so much everyone for all the input and advice on her mouth and getting her to switch. her mouth is looking fine, no change at all so i think its just a discoloration or irration from rubbing on the glass in her cage. so glad shes doing good!! thanks again everyone!!!

 

[ChuWuti]

CONGRATULATIONS!! I am so glad they switched so easily for you!

Sandy