Bees and Wasp

westcoastchameleons said:
i personally went to oceanside to see chris, to get some cages, when i was there i asked him about feeding bees.....he said 3 of his chams died after eating bees accidently......maybe he doesnt recall!
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The inconsistancy is no surprise. Chris (who is an old, dear friend) sometimes has trouble keeping his stories straight.

But yes, at Reptile Haven we got stories of chams that died from eating bees.

I had one of my Jackson's die after spitting one out that flew into it's out door cage. Perhaps my Jackson is one of Chris's '3'. Of course I don't know for sure it was the bee.

Perhaps he just missed Hawaii.



nalbar
 
*bump*

I am going to be builing an outside cage for my chameleons.
I was thinking of using the 1/2 or 1/4 inch gap screen.
After reading this I wanted to see if any more light was shed on this subject.
I live in florida and was considering using a Hibiscus, but the flowering plant might be a bad idea....BEES!
 
I havent fed my chams any bees or seen them eat one although in summer they are outside so I cant say for sure if this has happened. I was told that chams love them as long as you almost freeze them then pull the stinger out they would be alright. This brings me to the bee on a string trick from CKY. Almost freeze a bee take it out and get some thread. Gently tie the thread around his ab. and make sure not to get the wings tied. Let him unthaw and you have a bee on a string. I would use carpenter/bumblebees for they dont sting.
 
well, sorry to chime in and sound like a broken record.
but Gary Ferguson and Phillipe de Vosjoli book "care and breeding of chameleons" basically said that it's ok as long as the stinger is plucked (in case of honey bee).
 
You all have fun plucking stingers out of bees and wasps ... I'm not going to work that hard.;)

The closest we have come here is consuming a praying mantis that had just eaten a hornet.

-Brad
 
Yea, I agree with you Brad. Sounds like a lot of work for an extra feeder. Flies and crix seem to be working fine for me and I'm having a hard enough time getting my guy to eat Roaches, let alone introducing another feeder.

But...since this is the bee post.... I was wondering why the stinger alone would have anything to do with it. Aren't the toxins still in the bee regardless. Its just the stinger that is used to prick and insert the toxins like a syringe and as its digested, I'd assume the toxins would be released. But even then, are the toxins absorbed into the blood stream with the same ratio of blood/toxin as it would be if injected straight into the blood stream via a sting...or would ingested bee toxin be less harmful??
 
A few notes - I present this strictly as FYI:

>only females have stingers, they are modified ovipositors (egg laying devices).

>their "venom" will vary depending on their stage (without going into a major internal bee anatomy lesson take that as it is or do some research - or wait until I have time - which may be never the way my calendar is:confused:) That said it is concentrated in the stinger.

> the venom/toxin is nowhere as lethal as snake or other. Many Wasps toxins are more lethal as they use them to kill or paralyze their prey to return to the hive in order to feed their young. Bees use their sting more as a deterrent.

>Only social species of both Bees (honey and bumble) and wasps sting. Very few solitary species (and there are a lot more solitary species than social) even have stingers (their ovipositors are used only for that purpose) and of those most do not sting unless pushed to a point of serious provocation.

>Many people confuse bees and wasps and most will/can not distinguish between male and female.

I agree, don't go to the trouble. If one gets in an outdoor cage, your cham probably won't go for it. The force of its tongue may render it incapable of stinging, it may be a male and not get stung.

lele
 
Does nutritional benefit in this case really outweigh the risk? If you gut load with a quality mix and provide variety of feeders (that are already used safely) why bother with bees and wasps? Doesn't make sense.
 
The reason I *bumped* this thread is because I live in Florida.
I have a bunch of flowering plants in my back yard: Jasmine and Hibiscus mostly.
So, what worries me is a bee getting to close or inside the cage and a chameleon eatting it.
I dont think anyone plans on using them as a staple feeder.
I wanted to use the large hole screens to allow as much sunlight and air in as possible
 
I can't remember where I read it, but chameleons eat wasps in the wild because their tongues flick too fast for the wasps to react by stinging. But bees will continue stinging after they are chomped. Bee venom is all in a sac attached to their stinger, so when you pull the stinger out the sac comes out with it. I think chameleons must be able to tell that bees are no good because they are bright yellow with stripes.
 
Justin Carl said:
So, what worries me is a bee getting to close or inside the cage and a chameleon eatting it.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in my post above, there are a lot of bees and wasps that do not sting. There are a lot of flies, and even moths(!) that are mimics and can have an uncanny resemblance to a bee or wasp and would be harmless to your cham. Flies are also common pollinators so you may be seeing a lot of them as well. To the untrained eye, a lot of these are mistaken for bees and wasps.

So, unless you have flowers in your chams cage it is unlikely a bee or wasp will go in or if it does it won't spend much time. If you keep fruit in it, say for a veiled, you may attract some. That said, paper wasps, and other wasps that use wood to create their nests, CAN be a problem but ONLY IF you have unfinished wood. They pick at this, mix it with their saliva and use it to make those massive nests (cool, huh?).

Obviously, a lot of people have their chams in outdoor cages and there seems to be few reports of problems (and the ones from early in this thread are questionable) so I would think you have little to be concerned with. I'd be more concerned with your cham eating a lot of insects out doors if there is a lot of pesticide spraying going on in your area (I think someone may have mentioned that). Hopefully, you can setup your cham and the two of you can enjoy the sun and the view ;)
 
No Beebeque then? <G> sorry.. couldn't resist. :D


Serious now....
I had read that spiders, were an essential neonate cuisine once, but could not retrace the article. And something about black widow spiders being toxic. Anything on this confirmed?
 
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