Predator9555
New Member
I took my cham to a vet and as confirmed that mine had MBD.
Before and After with MBD
- Thread starter Sancho
- Start date
Predator9555
New Member
She gave me the high-protein paté stuff and a fresh pot of nutrobal and told me to force feed him it once a day, 1.5ml. I thought that that was a bit low so i feed him twice a day (morning and afternoon) with 2-2.5 ml depending on how much he eats.
When i put the paté stuff in his mouth with a syringe he chews it up and swallows, but he wont eat live food. Should i try putting live food into his mouth to see if he eats it?
Edit: No, i didnt get injections for my cham.
When i put the paté stuff in his mouth with a syringe he chews it up and swallows, but he wont eat live food. Should i try putting live food into his mouth to see if he eats it?
Edit: No, i didnt get injections for my cham.
Liquid calciums are said to be more readily absorbed.
I believe that the nutrobal contains preformed vitamin A which may be playing a part in the balance between the calcium/D3 etc.
I don't know what's in your pate....so I don't know if its good or not.
You said your chameleon is drinking...I would try to stick a cricket BETWEEN HIS TEETH so that he bites it while he is drinking and hopefully he will eat it. (Of course, if this works you can repeat it.)
As I said before, giving the chameleon injections of calcium and when the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin should be a much quicker way to get the MBD under control faster.
I'm not a vet and what I am saying comes mostly from what I have experienced, read or been told.
I believe that the nutrobal contains preformed vitamin A which may be playing a part in the balance between the calcium/D3 etc.
I don't know what's in your pate....so I don't know if its good or not.
You said your chameleon is drinking...I would try to stick a cricket BETWEEN HIS TEETH so that he bites it while he is drinking and hopefully he will eat it. (Of course, if this works you can repeat it.)
As I said before, giving the chameleon injections of calcium and when the blood calcium levels are high enough, a shot of calcitonin should be a much quicker way to get the MBD under control faster.
I'm not a vet and what I am saying comes mostly from what I have experienced, read or been told.
Predator9555
New Member
Well there is plenty of calcium going into the guy, but it doesnt seem to be making much difference. Might be able to get a shot of calcitonin at the vet, but i think it might still be a bit too early as we have only been force-feeding him a week. Ill have a go at giving him a bug tonight.
Only the vet can test to see how high the blood calcium levels are. Giving calcitonin if the blood levels are NOT high enough will draw still draw the calcium out of the blood into the bonesleaving the blood TOO LOW and putting the chameleon into a state of shock and likely killing it.
Hopefully your chameleon will recover and no more damage will occur in the meantime.
Hopefully your chameleon will recover and no more damage will occur in the meantime.
Predator9555
New Member
Im well aware of that Kinyonga, i mean i could ask the vet to see how well his blood-calcium levels are doing in the future, not do it myself 
I just gave him a bath in warm water to see if it would help him do a poo, because he hasnt done one in a while even though i know a fair bit of food has gone into him. He hasnt done one yet, but even if it doesnt work its a good way of keeping him hydrated and warm
I just gave him a bath in warm water to see if it would help him do a poo, because he hasnt done one in a while even though i know a fair bit of food has gone into him. He hasnt done one yet, but even if it doesnt work its a good way of keeping him hydrated and warm
Predator9555
New Member
Ok, so i just tried to force-feed him a powdered locust. Not a particularly large one either.
Opened his mouth up and put the locust in, he chewed it once or twice and spat it out. So i tried again, same thing. He kept spitting the locust out, even on the third try, so i stopped so i didnt stress him out.
That doesnt bode well.
Opened his mouth up and put the locust in, he chewed it once or twice and spat it out. So i tried again, same thing. He kept spitting the locust out, even on the third try, so i stopped so i didnt stress him out.
That doesnt bode well.
Predator9555
New Member
Recovery
Gizmo is still on his eating regime, and he did his first poop in ages just now. Enormous, and it really did smell like ASS. Completely stunk out my bedroom now
He is also using his legs now, rather than dragging himself along, and seems to be making a recovery, which is surprising considering the time scale.
Going to continue feeding him the paté stuff as normal, taking him to the vets for a plasma check and calcitonin jab next week.
Gizmo is still on his eating regime, and he did his first poop in ages just now. Enormous, and it really did smell like ASS
. Completely stunk out my bedroom now He is also using his legs now, rather than dragging himself along, and seems to be making a recovery, which is surprising considering the time scale.
Going to continue feeding him the paté stuff as normal, taking him to the vets for a plasma check and calcitonin jab next week.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
Gizmo is still on his eating regime, and he did his first poop in ages just now. Enormous, and it really did smell like ASS
He is also using his legs now, rather than dragging himself along, and seems to be making a recovery, which is surprising considering the time scale.
Going to continue feeding him the paté stuff as normal, taking him to the vets for a plasma check and calcitonin jab next week.
Sorry to say this.. but you got another problem there.
Have u ever tested his fecal for parasites?
stinky poo that offensive is usually caused by parasites.
Chameleon poo should not be overly stinky like that.
Predator9555
New Member
Oh son of a b*tch.
I havent tested it before, but he is normally perfectly fine. I think it is this paté stuff we are feeding him, it smells offensive going in, so it makes sense for it to smell offensive coming out.
However, now you mention it, ill get a fecal test when i take him to the vet next week. Better to be safe than sorry.
Edit: Wouldnt parasites cause him to lose weight? He is putting it on pretty quick with this food we are giving him. In the future, would it be a reasonable idea to heat the paté stuff first to kill any bugs, let it cool, then feed it to him?
dodolah
Retired Moderator
either way.
Some actually gain weight (but, off course, you can pretty much guess what exactly contribute to the weight gain -i don't want 2 get too graphic).
some parasites are known to cause impaction as well..
as far as cooking the pate.. I am not so sure about that..
What makes you think that the parasite actually come from the pate?
There are too many outside elements that can contribute to the parasite problem (assuming that yours have it).
It could be that he always have it and his immune system is keeping it in check. Now, since he's sick, the parasite becomes out of control.
It could be from the feeder,
could be from the soil,
etc etc..
But, don't panic. Just get the fecal checked and we'll see if the test come back positive or negative.
If possible, get fecal FLOAT test. Not just smear test.
Normally, i won't suggest blood test for parasite since it is very stressful for your cham.
But, since you gonna have a blood test taken for MBD anyway, why not ask the vet to not only confirm the calcium level but also any hints of parasites in the blood.
just my two cents
Some actually gain weight (but, off course, you can pretty much guess what exactly contribute to the weight gain -i don't want 2 get too graphic).
some parasites are known to cause impaction as well..
as far as cooking the pate.. I am not so sure about that..
What makes you think that the parasite actually come from the pate?
There are too many outside elements that can contribute to the parasite problem (assuming that yours have it).
It could be that he always have it and his immune system is keeping it in check. Now, since he's sick, the parasite becomes out of control.
It could be from the feeder,
could be from the soil,
etc etc..
But, don't panic. Just get the fecal checked and we'll see if the test come back positive or negative.
If possible, get fecal FLOAT test. Not just smear test.
Normally, i won't suggest blood test for parasite since it is very stressful for your cham.
But, since you gonna have a blood test taken for MBD anyway, why not ask the vet to not only confirm the calcium level but also any hints of parasites in the blood.
just my two cents
Predator9555
New Member
Well before the pate feeding, he hadn't eaten anything for about a week and a half. And it has only been pate that has been going into him for the last week. If its from food, its from that.
As far as from other places for parasites to appear from, he drinks bottled water, eats only the pate stuff at the moment, and is never less than 12" from the soil, so im assuming it isnt that
Either way, ill get him checked out either with a float or blood. Probably a blood test as one is gonna get done anyway, and if he just pooped now, theres no guarantee he will poop close enough to his vet visit.
As far as from other places for parasites to appear from, he drinks bottled water, eats only the pate stuff at the moment, and is never less than 12" from the soil, so im assuming it isnt that
Either way, ill get him checked out either with a float or blood. Probably a blood test as one is gonna get done anyway, and if he just pooped now, theres no guarantee he will poop close enough to his vet visit.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
Well before the pate feeding, he hadn't eaten anything for about a week and a half. And it has only been pate that has been going into him for the last week. If its from food, its from that.
As far as from other places for parasites to appear from, he drinks bottled water, eats only the pate stuff at the moment, and is never less than 12" from the soil, so im assuming it isnt that
Either way, ill get him checked out either with a float or blood. Probably a blood test as one is gonna get done anyway, and if he just pooped now, theres no guarantee he will poop close enough to his vet visit.
try to get that fecal float test. If he poops the day be4 or the day of the vet visit, make sure you save it put it in a ziplock bag (you can refrigerate it if you want).
the fresher the poop the more accurate the result.
I hope the stink actually does come from the pate (not from the parasite).
Predator9555
New Member
As do i
Hopefully ill be able to get a float test, but as this poop is the first he has done in about 2 weeks, i cant guarentee anything. Ill probably need another vet visit in a few weeks for another calcitonin jab, so if it stays stinky i can bump it forwards for when he next poops.
Hopefully ill be able to get a float test, but as this poop is the first he has done in about 2 weeks, i cant guarentee anything. Ill probably need another vet visit in a few weeks for another calcitonin jab, so if it stays stinky i can bump it forwards for when he next poops.
dodolah
Retired Moderator
As do i
Hopefully ill be able to get a float test, but as this poop is the first he has done in about 2 weeks, i cant guarentee anything. Ill probably need another vet visit in a few weeks for another calcitonin jab, so if it stays stinky i can bump it forwards for when he next poops.
good luck. keep us posted.
http://chamworld.blogspot.com/2008/01/parasites-warning-this-health-chapter.html
smyth
New Member
hey predator, i believe that nutrobal is a multivitamin and contains only a little amount of calcium and shudnt be used as your staple calcium supplement you will need a pure calcium powder for this such as calypso. nutrobal also contains D3 so shudnt be used daily its only meant to be used a couple of times per month. i dont kno the treatment for mbd so if nutrobal is commonly used for it then ignore what i said lol, but i wud have thought your cham wud need high amounts of calcium to fix it.
Predator9555
New Member
Well since yesterday i have started using a small amount of nutrobal mixed with a larger amount of calypso so he is getting more calcium in his diet as well as the vitamins with his feeds.
Trying not to ignore the original post any longer...
tbs350z...I can't see the before picture of your chameleon in your first post.
Sorry that you lost one chameleon...was it that the MBD wasn't caught in time that led to her death? I hope that the one you have left will continue to do well for you.
Predator9555...said in an early post..."Getting stronger every day though, so im hoping he will make a quick and total recovery!"...then you said..."Well there is plenty of calcium going into the guy, but it doesnt seem to be making much difference"...so your chameleon isn't doing as well now as it was when you first posted???
You said..."Im force feeding mine high-protein food with NEW nutrobal mixed in twice a day"...its the calcium, D3, vitamin A and phosphorous levels that have to do with the bone health. Nutrobal has preformed vitamin A which can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD. I'm glad to hear that you are giving your chameleon calypso now and cutting back on the nutrobal. If the pate is a meat based product (which it sounds like) then it also contains preformed vitamin A.
You said..."Its calcinate, i looked it up before going to the vets. Gluconate would be sugar"...I talked to my vet friend this week and she uses calcium gluconate. Did you get a liquid calcium yet??
Regarding force feeding, you shouldn't have to force feed the chameleon. Any chameleons that I have dealt with that have had MBD still ate on their own. They have to be really far gone before they quit. Once exception to them not eating on their own might be if the tongue is affected...in which case they might have to be HAND fed. You said..."powdered locust"...what is a powdered locust??
You said the feces smells...it could very well be from the pate, IMHO.
You mentioned soil...do you have it as a substrate? Some soils can cause impactions. Also...the MBD could be playing a part in the slow feces production since it can affect muscle contractions.
tbs350z...I can't see the before picture of your chameleon in your first post.
Sorry that you lost one chameleon...was it that the MBD wasn't caught in time that led to her death? I hope that the one you have left will continue to do well for you.
Predator9555...said in an early post..."Getting stronger every day though, so im hoping he will make a quick and total recovery!"...then you said..."Well there is plenty of calcium going into the guy, but it doesnt seem to be making much difference"...so your chameleon isn't doing as well now as it was when you first posted???
You said..."Im force feeding mine high-protein food with NEW nutrobal mixed in twice a day"...its the calcium, D3, vitamin A and phosphorous levels that have to do with the bone health. Nutrobal has preformed vitamin A which can prevent the D3 from doing its job and lead to MBD. I'm glad to hear that you are giving your chameleon calypso now and cutting back on the nutrobal. If the pate is a meat based product (which it sounds like) then it also contains preformed vitamin A.
You said..."Its calcinate, i looked it up before going to the vets. Gluconate would be sugar"...I talked to my vet friend this week and she uses calcium gluconate. Did you get a liquid calcium yet??
Regarding force feeding, you shouldn't have to force feed the chameleon. Any chameleons that I have dealt with that have had MBD still ate on their own. They have to be really far gone before they quit. Once exception to them not eating on their own might be if the tongue is affected...in which case they might have to be HAND fed. You said..."powdered locust"...what is a powdered locust??
You said the feces smells...it could very well be from the pate, IMHO.
You mentioned soil...do you have it as a substrate? Some soils can cause impactions. Also...the MBD could be playing a part in the slow feces production since it can affect muscle contractions.
Predator9555
New Member
Lots of points there Kinyonga, ill try my best to answer them:
1) He seemed to slow down on his recovery, but now he is much better than before. He grips like he used to, walks around and climbs all over the place, drinks two or three times a day and seems much more like himself.
2) I was worried about using Nutrobal, but it was suggested for every use by my vet. I know that isnt correct, but i wanted to give him a boost. Since learning about the vit A interference i have moved onto calypso. Yes, the pate is meat based.
3) I havent got a liquid calcium yet. Should be going to see the vet soon. To be honest, im not sure i need one as the improvement already is great just with the powder. He is almost back to his normal self. I will still look into it. The calcinate/gluconate thing was my mistake, thought he meant something else.
4) I have decided today to stop the force feeding. He is much stronger now and weighs in at 273g so i figure it cant do a lot of harm to stop his pate feeding and try with bugs until he gets hungry enough to eat them. If he starts to lose a lot of weight, i guess ill have to go back to pate. A powdered locust is a locust with calypso powder on it
5) I think the smell was the pate too. Not too worried about parasite infections at the moment as he is gaining weight and nothing seen in the feces. Probably just stinky stuff goes in, stinky stuff comes out.
6) I have a substrate of large chunks of coconut bark. Nothing he could fit in his mouth. Anyway, since he started falling we have put towels in there over the bark so he doesnt injure himself on them, and so he doesnt end up with any in his mouth if he ends up down there. He has stopped falling now, so that doesnt appear to be a problem. After reading about some of the stories on the site, im not going to put substrate in after i next clean out his cage.
7) Im keeping notes of when he poops, so i will be able to see just how slow his feces production is. As he is regaining strength im hoping it will speed back up soon.
1) He seemed to slow down on his recovery, but now he is much better than before. He grips like he used to, walks around and climbs all over the place, drinks two or three times a day and seems much more like himself.
2) I was worried about using Nutrobal, but it was suggested for every use by my vet. I know that isnt correct, but i wanted to give him a boost. Since learning about the vit A interference i have moved onto calypso. Yes, the pate is meat based.
3) I havent got a liquid calcium yet. Should be going to see the vet soon. To be honest, im not sure i need one as the improvement already is great just with the powder. He is almost back to his normal self. I will still look into it. The calcinate/gluconate thing was my mistake, thought he meant something else.
4) I have decided today to stop the force feeding. He is much stronger now and weighs in at 273g so i figure it cant do a lot of harm to stop his pate feeding and try with bugs until he gets hungry enough to eat them. If he starts to lose a lot of weight, i guess ill have to go back to pate. A powdered locust is a locust with calypso powder on it
5) I think the smell was the pate too. Not too worried about parasite infections at the moment as he is gaining weight and nothing seen in the feces. Probably just stinky stuff goes in, stinky stuff comes out.
6) I have a substrate of large chunks of coconut bark. Nothing he could fit in his mouth. Anyway, since he started falling we have put towels in there over the bark so he doesnt injure himself on them, and so he doesnt end up with any in his mouth if he ends up down there. He has stopped falling now, so that doesnt appear to be a problem. After reading about some of the stories on the site, im not going to put substrate in after i next clean out his cage.
7) Im keeping notes of when he poops, so i will be able to see just how slow his feces production is. As he is regaining strength im hoping it will speed back up soon.
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