Blind chameleon

[Pejelagarta]

Hello everyone!

I have a veiled cham, male, 7 months old, who was in a very terrible husbandry situation: temp 15°C, no uvb light or heat source, no water acces, no suplements...

He had no grip strenght, sunken eyes, but apetite.

Now i have him in room temperature 31°C, 70% humidity, has a water fountain, and ubv light. His grip has got better and eyes are returning to normal but he wont open them, so he cant eat, ive been giving him flukers repta boost for the past 2 days. And he just roams around blind all day, and keeps hitting himself with everything.

In my country there is not a vet for any reptile, so that is not an option. I am a vet student and have been giving him also intraperitoneal fluids, pain meds, suplements and antiinflamatory meds, but it would be great if you could provide me with more advice, so maybe i can save him.

*Sorry for my spelling, english is not my first language.

 

[elizaann2]

hello and welcome! Let me tag some people who could help you with this.

@Beman and @MissSkittles what do you think?

 

[elizaann2]

It might also be helpful to fill out this husbandry form. The more information you can give us the better

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with, and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long do you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high-traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem -

 

[Pejelagarta]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - It is a veiled chameleon, male, 7 months old. I work in an anphibian store, I have been caring for him the best i could for 3 months. He has been in my complete care for 2 days.

Handling - I handle him everyday because he needs to be forced feed.

Feeding - He was eating dubias, crickets, mealworms, and superworms. The amount depended of what they had at the store that day. Right now i am feeding him flukers repta boost only 3ml, divided several times a day I started reading here some threads and i think he needs alot more. And I have no idea what gut load means

Supplements - The insects where being dusted with the calcium low D3 I posted in the picture, everyday.

Watering - They were misting the cage with water everyday, but I managed to put a small water fountain in his enclosure a couole weeks ago, he started drinking, but suddenly stoped, so i was giving him intraperitoneal fluids every 2 days (0.2 ml NaCl).

Fecal Description - I saw the post about this topica, and it is normal in coloring, size and everything.

History - He spent 4 months or so in a terrible enclosure, in a pet store that was meant for frogs, so temperature 15°C and humidity were not good for him. He started loosing his grip, i thought it was mbd, so i managed to put a ubv light above his cage, and started using rapashi supervite alternating with the calcium low D3. Then his grip got better but he closed both of his eyes and I managed to fight my boss to bring him to my house so i can actually care for him correctly, however he is still not mine.

Cage Info: My boss gave me an open air screen cage from zoomed, 16"x16"x20". Has paper towel on the bottom, a water fountain, and some stuff i just improvised because he hits himsefl with everything, i will attach a picture bellow.

Lighting - It has a ubv light, dont now the brand or the watts, they gave it to me. If ypu could tell me the proper light bulb i will order it, but it will take a couple weeks to get here.

Temperature - Temperature ranges between 30 to 40 °C during the day, and at night not lower that 25°C. At the middle of thw day when temperatures are the higest i turn of the light.

Humidity - Dont know the exact %, but it goes from 40% to 70%

Plants - No plants

Placement - It is on top of a dog cage

Location - Panama Republic, very hot, very humid always.

Current Problem -
I just have him, and i am not sure how to csre for him. His eyes are closed and cant eat. He is extremely active and keeps hiting with everything.

Meds
I Gave him meloxicam drops for 3 days, but with a day in between, because i thought it might releive his disconfort.

Gave him subcutaneos glucose 0.1ml for a week, and actually saw a lot of improvement because he was not moving much, now he walks and grips to things normaly.

Intraperitoneal fluids for his severe dehydration, 0.2 ml NaCl

Flurbiprofeno, a drop in each eye to try to relieve his disconfort, he was startint to scratch his eyes against stuff, he stoped that already, so i think it is helping.

At the store for a while he had symptoms of respiratory problems so i gave him drops of enrofloxacina for 5 days and the syptoms desapeared.

Here in Panama there is not a single vet for this type of animals so i am using books and the internet so please feel free to tell me to stop doing whatever or give me any advice it would help greatly.

Thank you

 

[elizaann2]

Thank you! See my answers below in red.

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - It is a veiled chameleon, male, 7 months old. I work in an anphibian store, I have been caring for him the best i could for 3 months. He has been in my complete care for 2 days. Bless you! Thank you for taking care of this chameleon!

Handling - I handle him everyday because he needs to be forced feed. This makes sense, once he is eating on his own, I would recommend not handling him unless you have to. Chameleons are shy lizards and us handling them causes stress. Right now, in your situation, it is necessary though.

Feeding - He was eating dubias, crickets, mealworms, and superworms. The amount depended of what they had at the store that day. Right now i am feeding him flukers repta boost only 3ml, divided several times a day I started reading here some threads and i think he needs alot more. And I have no idea what gut load means . @kinyonga, @Beman @MissSkittles Can you give advice on this? Gut loading is when you feed your bugs healthy nutritions foods so they are healthy and nutritious for your chameleon. Once you get your guy back on bugs I would strongly suggest gut loading. I have added some documents that list recommended bugs and what foods are good to gut load. Unfortunately, mealworms are not recommended due to their low nutritional value.

Supplements - The insects where being dusted with the calcium low D3 I posted in the picture, everyday. Ok baby boy is being fed too much vitamin D. Vitamin D is a 'fat soluble' vitamin, meaning excess is stored in the body vs getting flushed out through the urine. We do see issues with our chameleons when they are feed too much vitamin D. What brand is the supplement you are feeding him? Examples of what I use below and they are linked to Amazon so you can see and hopefully buy them to use as well:
- Calcium with out vitamin D3 - every feeding
- Calcium plus LoD - 1st and 15th of every month - this supplement also has other necessary vitamins you chameleon needs to be healthy, if you don't get this, then you will need a multivitamin supplement to add in your rotation as well.


Watering - They were misting the cage with water everyday, but I managed to put a small water fountain in his enclosure a couole weeks ago, he started drinking, but suddenly stoped, so i was giving him intraperitoneal fluids every 2 days (0.2 ml NaCl). I would remove the fountain, feeders tend to get stuck in those and its a breeding ground for bacteria. You would basically have to sanitize this every day or so to ensure the water in it is safe to drink. Most of us on here use misting, drippers and depending on where people live, a fogger at night as well. I'll share my hydration method below, feel free to copy or tweek it to fit your needs:
- 7:30 mist enclosure for 2 minutes
- 8:00 lights come on
- 3:00 dripper added on top of enclosure to provide an extra drinking session if they need it
- 8:00 lights turn off
- 9:30 mist enclosure for 2 mintues
- 10:00 fog machine is on for 1 hour on, one hour off until 6 am, (to safely do this enclosure temps need to be 20 degrees C/68 degrees F or lower)

If you have high humidity nights were you live, you may not have to use a fogger.

Fecal Description - I saw the post about this topica, and it is normal in coloring, size and everything. Great

History - He spent 4 months or so in a terrible enclosure, in a pet store that was meant for frogs, so temperature 15°C and humidity were not good for him. He started loosing his grip, i thought it was mbd, so i managed to put a ubv light above his cage, and started using rapashi supervite alternating with the calcium low D3. Then his grip got better but he closed both of his eyes and I managed to fight my boss to bring him to my house so i can actually care for him correctly, however he is still not mine. Wow, thank you! We need more people like you in this world!

Cage Info: My boss gave me an open air screen cage from zoomed, 16"x16"x20". Has paper towel on the bottom, a water fountain, and some stuff i just improvised because he hits himsefl with everything, i will attach a picture bellow. Typically your baby would need to be in a 2'x2'x4' tall enclosure, not only do they need the space but us keepers need that type of space in order to create heat and humidity gradients. I understand you may have to just work with what you have though.

Lighting - It has a ubv light, dont now the brand or the watts, they gave it to me. If ypu could tell me the proper light bulb i will order it, but it will take a couple weeks to get here. Please share a picture of what UVB light you have.

Temperature - Temperature ranges between 30 to 40 °C during the day, and at night not lower that 25°C. At the middle of thw day when temperatures are the higest i turn of the light. Ok I am not great at C/F, but I believe 30 to 40 degrees C is WAY too hot for your little baby. The hottest their ambient temperature of the enclosure should be no more than 78 degrees or 25 degrees Celsius. The basking temp should be between 26 degrees C to 29 degrees or 80 to 85 degrees F. How are you measuring temperatures?

Humidity - Dont know the exact %, but it goes from 40% to 70%. You want 40-50% humidity during the day, and 80-100% at night if possible. How are you measuring humidity?

Plants - No plants. Your baby needs live plants if possible, these guys live in the trees, they need branches to walk on and lots of foliage to hide behind and feel safe and secure. I'll share a photo of one of my enclosures so you can get an idea of what your chameleon needs. You can get branches from outside, just make sure they do not have a strong odor, do not produce sap and are not obviously infested with bugs. Give them a good scrub with soap and water and rinse them well and let them dry in the sun. I'm also attaching a document with safe plants to use with chameleons. This is especially important for your veiled as they tend to eat plants. Plastic plants are not recommended for chameleons because if ingested (either on purpose or accidentally) it can cause impaction.

Placement - It is on top of a dog cage. Height equals safety to these guys, you basically want at least the top branch of the enclosure to be at eye level with you. Can you place it on a dresser or something to give it more height?

Location - Panama Republic, very hot, very humid always. You may not need to fog then if you live somewhere really humid

Current Problem -
I just have him, and i am not sure how to csre for him. His eyes are closed and cant eat. He is extremely active and keeps hiting with everything.

Meds. I am going to let @kinyonga respond to the below, I do not know enough about medication to be any help to you unfortunately.
I Gave him meloxicam drops for 3 days, but with a day in between, because i thought it might releive his disconfort.

Gave him subcutaneos glucose 0.1ml for a week, and actually saw a lot of improvement because he was not moving much, now he walks and grips to things normaly.

Intraperitoneal fluids for his severe dehydration, 0.2 ml NaCl

Flurbiprofeno, a drop in each eye to try to relieve his disconfort, he was startint to scratch his eyes against stuff, he stoped that already, so i think it is helping.

At the store for a while he had symptoms of respiratory problems so i gave him drops of enrofloxacina for 5 days and the syptoms desapeared.

Here in Panama there is not a single vet for this type of animals so i am using books and the internet so please feel free to tell me to stop doing whatever or give me any advice it would help greatly.

 

[cadet21345]

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon - It is a veiled chameleon, male, 7 months old. I work in an anphibian store, I have been caring for him the best i could for 3 months. He has been in my complete care for 2 days.

Handling - I handle him everyday because he needs to be forced feed.

Feeding - He was eating dubias, crickets, mealworms, and superworms. The amount depended of what they had at the store that day. Right now i am feeding him flukers repta boost only 3ml, divided several times a day I started reading here some threads and i think he needs alot more. And I have no idea what gut load means

Supplements - The insects where being dusted with the calcium low D3 I posted in the picture, everyday.

Watering - They were misting the cage with water everyday, but I managed to put a small water fountain in his enclosure a couole weeks ago, he started drinking, but suddenly stoped, so i was giving him intraperitoneal fluids every 2 days (0.2 ml NaCl).

Fecal Description - I saw the post about this topica, and it is normal in coloring, size and everything.

History - He spent 4 months or so in a terrible enclosure, in a pet store that was meant for frogs, so temperature 15°C and humidity were not good for him. He started loosing his grip, i thought it was mbd, so i managed to put a ubv light above his cage, and started using rapashi supervite alternating with the calcium low D3. Then his grip got better but he closed both of his eyes and I managed to fight my boss to bring him to my house so i can actually care for him correctly, however he is still not mine.

Cage Info: My boss gave me an open air screen cage from zoomed, 16"x16"x20". Has paper towel on the bottom, a water fountain, and some stuff i just improvised because he hits himsefl with everything, i will attach a picture bellow.

Lighting - It has a ubv light, dont now the brand or the watts, they gave it to me. If ypu could tell me the proper light bulb i will order it, but it will take a couple weeks to get here.

Temperature - Temperature ranges between 30 to 40 °C during the day, and at night not lower that 25°C. At the middle of thw day when temperatures are the higest i turn of the light.

Humidity - Dont know the exact %, but it goes from 40% to 70%

Plants - No plants

Placement - It is on top of a dog cage

Location - Panama Republic, very hot, very humid always.

Current Problem -
I just have him, and i am not sure how to csre for him. His eyes are closed and cant eat. He is extremely active and keeps hiting with everything.

Meds
I Gave him meloxicam drops for 3 days, but with a day in between, because i thought it might releive his disconfort.

Gave him subcutaneos glucose 0.1ml for a week, and actually saw a lot of improvement because he was not moving much, now he walks and grips to things normaly.

Intraperitoneal fluids for his severe dehydration, 0.2 ml NaCl

Flurbiprofeno, a drop in each eye to try to relieve his disconfort, he was startint to scratch his eyes against stuff, he stoped that already, so i think it is helping.

At the store for a while he had symptoms of respiratory problems so i gave him drops of enrofloxacina for 5 days and the syptoms desapeared.

Here in Panama there is not a single vet for this type of animals so i am using books and the internet so please feel free to tell me to stop doing whatever or give me any advice it would help greatly.

Thank you

Way to hot, gutload means what you feed your bugs, a good gut load would be in the picture below, Calimesa without d3 or phosphorus is mandatory then use reptivite multivitamin with d3 every 2 weeks, no fountain I would say use a mister, dripper, and a fogger, cage needs to be 4 feet tall, 2ft wide, and 2ft deep at least, basking should be 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity should be 40 to 50% during day and 70 to 100 during night, uvb should be t5 5.0 or 6% linear bulb, put it in a spot where dogs/animals can't get like in your room, you need live plants in the cage I sent some in the picture, (age of chameleon and gender of chameleon?) If it's a female add laying bin. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

 

[cadet21345]

Way to hot, gutload means what you feed your bugs, a good gut load would be in the picture below, Calimesa without d3 or phosphorus is mandatory then use reptivite multivitamin with d3 every 2 weeks, no fountain I would say use a mister, dripper, and a fogger, cage needs to be 4 feet tall, 2ft wide, and 2ft deep at least, basking should be 80 to 85 degrees Fahrenheit, humidity should be 40 to 50% during day and 70 to 100 during night, uvb should be t5 5.0 or 6% linear bulb, put it in a spot where dogs/animals can't get like in your room, you need live plants in the cage I sent some in the picture, (age of chameleon and gender of chameleon?) If it's a female add laying bin. https://chameleonacademy.com/veiled-chameleon-care/

I'm gonna link all the things I use

 

[Pejelagarta]

Thank you very very much, this is very very helpful.

I have to buy thermoters and higrometers, the temperatures and humidity i am telling is the average in my house, so yes probably is a lot different in the cage.

I will get rid of the fountain, (i hate it because makes everything wet, so perfect!!! hahaha) Right now he cant see so i force feed him the water.

Is the repta boost food good for now? Or should i add something else to the mixture? That is what i am feeding him right now.

I dont know if i should put a lot of branches right now because he cant see a thing and he is bumping against everything and i am scared he will injure his eyes, so thats why i made that "parachute" using a blanket, he climbs that easily and its softer so he cant hurt himself

 

[Pejelagarta]

I'm gonna link all the things I use

Thank you very much!

 

[cadet21345]

Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Extra Large, 24 x 24 x 48-Inches https://a.co/d/7utqjJy DBDPet 's Bundle with Zoomed Reptisun T5 Hood with 5.0 UV-B Bulb 24" - Includes Pro-Tip Guide https://a.co/d/b8zNFZ4 Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp Replacement Bulb 50 Watts - Pack of 3 https://a.co/d/dW73AdY Fluker's Repta-Clamp Lamp with Switch for Reptiles ( Packaging May Vary ),Black, 8.5-Inches https://a.co/d/6TiS9Df Limited-time deal: REPTI ZOO 4L Reptile Fogger Mister Tank Reptile Terrariums Humidifier Digital Tank Timing Terrarium Humidifier Smart Touch Screen Adjustable Fogger for Reptiles Amphibians Herps https://a.co/d/4Brb52U DAOTAILI Reptile Misting System, Automatic Intelligent Reptile Humidifiers with 3 PCS Spray Nozzles, LCD Reptile fogger with Smart Timing Rainforest.This is Rainforest Device, Not A Sprayer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B48W45B6?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_dp_2BZ4C08SSPCKNM4CSFYW Fosmon Indoor 24 Hour Mechanical Outlet Timer [ETL Listed], Programmable Plug-in Timer with 2-Outlet for Lamp, Christmas String Lights, Grow Light, Aquarium, 3-Prong, Grounded, 2 Pack https://a.co/d/2PQt8Sd BN-LINK 8 Outlet Surge Protector with Mechanical Timer (4 Outlets Timed, 4 Outlets Always On) - White https://a.co/d/0nTcQUV Jungle Vines Flexible Pet Habitat Decor for Lizards, Frogs, Snakes and Other Reptiles https://a.co/d/aHy2XYm

 

[cadet21345]

For the bottom of my cage I used a heat gun to wrap it toward the middle and I drilled holes in the bottom so it can drip into a bucket also you don't want to use reptisafe but if you need to do it

 

[Pejelagarta]

Zoo Med ReptiBreeze Open Air Screen Cage, Extra Large, 24 x 24 x 48-Inches https://a.co/d/7utqjJy DBDPet 's Bundle with Zoomed Reptisun T5 Hood with 5.0 UV-B Bulb 24" - Includes Pro-Tip Guide https://a.co/d/b8zNFZ4 Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp Replacement Bulb 50 Watts - Pack of 3 https://a.co/d/dW73AdY Fluker's Repta-Clamp Lamp with Switch for Reptiles ( Packaging May Vary ),Black, 8.5-Inches https://a.co/d/6TiS9Df Limited-time deal: REPTI ZOO 4L Reptile Fogger Mister Tank Reptile Terrariums Humidifier Digital Tank Timing Terrarium Humidifier Smart Touch Screen Adjustable Fogger for Reptiles Amphibians Herps https://a.co/d/4Brb52U DAOTAILI Reptile Misting System, Automatic Intelligent Reptile Humidifiers with 3 PCS Spray Nozzles, LCD Reptile fogger with Smart Timing Rainforest.This is Rainforest Device, Not A Sprayer https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B48W45B6?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_dp_2BZ4C08SSPCKNM4CSFYW Fosmon Indoor 24 Hour Mechanical Outlet Timer [ETL Listed], Programmable Plug-in Timer with 2-Outlet for Lamp, Christmas String Lights, Grow Light, Aquarium, 3-Prong, Grounded, 2 Pack https://a.co/d/2PQt8Sd BN-LINK 8 Outlet Surge Protector with Mechanical Timer (4 Outlets Timed, 4 Outlets Always On) - White https://a.co/d/0nTcQUV Jungle Vines Flexible Pet Habitat Decor for Lizards, Frogs, Snakes and Other Reptiles https://a.co/d/aHy2XYm

I cant order long light bulbs, because they will break (mail system here is horrible i know), but could i use a couple small lights placed beside each other? Because when i order small light bulbs they arrive fine

 

[cadet21345]

Zoo Med ReptiCalcium Without D3, 3 oz. https://a.co/d/gFXVjrc Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins with D3 2 oz - Pack of 6 https://a.co/d/iL2cDWM

 

[cadet21345]

I cant order long light bulbs, because they will break (mail system here is horrible i know), but could i use a couple small lights placed beside each other? Because when i order small light bulbs they arrive fine

Don't worry about uvb the one I sent has the bulb in a hood to where the hood is touching the ground before the bulb but look for basking lamps like that

 

[cadet21345]

Prevue Pet Products BPV1181 2-Pack Universal Plastic Hanging Cups for Small Birds, Colors Vary https://a.co/d/6gpHyH4

 

[Pejelagarta]

Don't worry about uvb the one I sent has the bulb in a hood to where the hood is touching the ground before the bulb but look for basking lamps like that

Ok perfect, thank you

 

[cadet21345]

I use bee pollen in the gut load Bee Pollen Powder - 100% Natural - Non GMO - Wildcrafted - 4oz by Herb To Body https://a.co/d/5b72o8F

 

[Pejelagarta]

I use bee pollen in the gut load Bee Pollen Powder - 100% Natural - Non GMO - Wildcrafted - 4oz by Herb To Body https://a.co/d/5b72o8F

I think i cant order that, because it clasifies as food and its not allowed to bring it into the country, but maybe i could ask locally if somebody sells that here

 

[cadet21345]

For the gut load this is what I do I keep the thing the roaches live in but I put 4 in a different cage with the gut load about 2 to 1 days before the feed but the number of roaches will vary because yours is younger. I blend up organic fresh collard greens, with fresh papaya, with alfalfa pellets, and bee pollen and I pour the substance on a paper towel so I can just have the dry food and not all the water and I use a water sponge so the roaches can drink and I freeze the rest of the gutload after.

 

[Pejelagarta]

Zoo Med ReptiCalcium Without D3, 3 oz. https://a.co/d/gFXVjrc Zoo Med Reptivite Reptile Vitamins with D3 2 oz - Pack of 6 https://a.co/d/iL2cDWM

At the store we have these (see pictures) could any of them work?