Blue Veiled at Chicago Reptile Show
- Thread starter jadeaudio
- Start date
Pumpkinface
New Member
I was there. I saw them. the two amazingly bad quality photos of the blue veiled. those photos looked like when you colorize a black and white photo and it just looks off. the male was just an ordinary turquiose sunburst with a tiny casque(i hate that!). The female was in the cage with the male, gravid colored and stressed. I gotta say, I feel like it was a scam and that they're just selling regular turquise breeders. what helped make up for that was when I saw a local breeder was there and had a veiled with the tallest casque i ever saw! I'm pretty sure he's a
cousin of my old guy
cousin of my old guy
Rocky
Established Member
Why does everyone think it's a scam? Chris stated that there are really those lines rumored to be around and if they are that price is normal. If they were het for it then they would not be blue but could produce blue babies just like with other het reptiles.
I dont think you should be so quick to bash on a breeder. If you were selling het breeders like that I am sure you wouldn't want them bashing on you because they are het and don't show the blue.
I dont think you should be so quick to bash on a breeder. If you were selling het breeders like that I am sure you wouldn't want them bashing on you because they are het and don't show the blue.
Pumpkinface
New Member
i'm calling it a scam because THERE WAS NO REAL PROOF. if i breed veileds with that kind of insanely unique coloring, i would have so many non-grainy high quality photos flying around that con, i'd be kicked out for over advertising. those photos were baaaaad. veileds that are a deep almost purple blue, sorry i'm not gonna beleive someone's word on that one! If they end up being real, I'd be really impressed.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Unfortunately there have been a lot of wild assumptions made in this thread resulting in a lot of naive statements about the legitimacy of this morph. Its amazing how people are so fast to reject something they have no knowledge of.
I have not seen this morph in person but I have met and spoken to the breeder working with it. The vendor at the show who had them is not the breeder. He is a supplier who does shows all around the country and mostly does resale. As a result, he would not be of much use as far as getting information about the morph is concerned and he would also be reliant on whatever photos the actual breeder provided for him.
From what I can tell, the animals at the show were likely hets for the trait and as such, would look completely normal. Theoretically, provided this is a simple recessive trait, hets bred back to each other would result in approximately 25% of the offspring exhibiting the trait you were breeding for. Most morphs are typically sold first as hets when they are released to the public as it is easier to produce hets and when you release hets, you still have time to produce and sell enough of the trait to recover the money you put into developing the trait (and more hopefully) before everyone has them.
As far as quality photos of the morph is concerned, when I spoke to the breeder, he showed me a couple photos on his cell phone (may have even been the same pics, I can't remember). When I inquired about whether or not he had better photos, he said he didn't have any because he sucked at taking pics and didn't have a good camera to do it with. I offered to take photos for him and at the time he wanted to wait because he was still working on breeding out the morph and didn't want to create a stir until he had enough to start selling off. He has been working with this morph for years trying to selectively breed the line and have more breeding stock. Whether the single pair of hets is indicative of him starting to release the morph or simply of him needing a little fast cash, I don't know. If it was the latter, he may not have gotten pics because he didn't care to hype it up yet and if it was the former, all it means is he has not yet gotten good pics. As for the photo hue being shifted, since the branch the cham is on and the leaves in the background are still green, that may not be the case but rather just a bad pic.
Time will tell with this morph. It may prove to be very impressive or it may prove to be a let down. I'm not ready to run with the crowd of naive assumptions, however, and bash the breeder or the line. To be honest, with how many veileds are bred every year, I'm surprised we don't see more genetic mutations like it.
Chris
I have not seen this morph in person but I have met and spoken to the breeder working with it. The vendor at the show who had them is not the breeder. He is a supplier who does shows all around the country and mostly does resale. As a result, he would not be of much use as far as getting information about the morph is concerned and he would also be reliant on whatever photos the actual breeder provided for him.
From what I can tell, the animals at the show were likely hets for the trait and as such, would look completely normal. Theoretically, provided this is a simple recessive trait, hets bred back to each other would result in approximately 25% of the offspring exhibiting the trait you were breeding for. Most morphs are typically sold first as hets when they are released to the public as it is easier to produce hets and when you release hets, you still have time to produce and sell enough of the trait to recover the money you put into developing the trait (and more hopefully) before everyone has them.
As far as quality photos of the morph is concerned, when I spoke to the breeder, he showed me a couple photos on his cell phone (may have even been the same pics, I can't remember). When I inquired about whether or not he had better photos, he said he didn't have any because he sucked at taking pics and didn't have a good camera to do it with. I offered to take photos for him and at the time he wanted to wait because he was still working on breeding out the morph and didn't want to create a stir until he had enough to start selling off. He has been working with this morph for years trying to selectively breed the line and have more breeding stock. Whether the single pair of hets is indicative of him starting to release the morph or simply of him needing a little fast cash, I don't know. If it was the latter, he may not have gotten pics because he didn't care to hype it up yet and if it was the former, all it means is he has not yet gotten good pics. As for the photo hue being shifted, since the branch the cham is on and the leaves in the background are still green, that may not be the case but rather just a bad pic.
Time will tell with this morph. It may prove to be very impressive or it may prove to be a let down. I'm not ready to run with the crowd of naive assumptions, however, and bash the breeder or the line. To be honest, with how many veileds are bred every year, I'm surprised we don't see more genetic mutations like it.
Chris
Pure
New Member
I'm quite certain (although assuming) that one of the main reasons we don't see more "morphs" has to do with the stigma around line breeding chameleons. I'm a firm believer that we have yet to uncover the true possibility of the colors the veiled species is able to produce. Just looking at them in unmorphed form displays their potential.
But this is an argument for another thread and one that has already been beaten to death.
But this is an argument for another thread and one that has already been beaten to death.
Pumpkinface
New Member
i agree. and i won't deny the possibility of veileds that color. heck, we all clicked on this thread very hopeful i assume? i just want to make sure some chameleon scammer isnt bringing lies and false hopes into my town!
SSimsswiSS
Avid Member
I have seen a blue veil in person. The most striking Veil I've ever seen. Think Blue and turquoise all over. I had to check the lighting being used in the setup. Because I thought it must of been some kind of special lighting effect.
Julirs
New Member
Speaking for myself, I guess I made the harsh scam statement because as heavily immersed as I (think) I am, I had not heard of this mutation.
In this case I would love to be proven wrong and have a stunning blue Veiled some day.
Any other morphs out there that we don't know about?
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
I don't see why you guys think it is so odd that people are questioning the legitimacy of this morph. I see sooo many sketchy people selling veileds at shows, that when I heard some random guy at a show is selling "het blue veiled chameleons", I don't think you can blame anyone for having doubts. If it were a big breeder, I wouldn't have any doubts at all, but when a guy at a show has horrible pics of a morph he is selling hets for $2k at a show, who wouldn't question it...? I am not saying its completely false, and If it is in fact a real morph, AWESOME, but I see so many people make false claims on animals at shows. Just take a look at the snake scene. There are "hets" sold as hets for all sorts of crazy "rare morphs", and I hear stories all the time of people forking out big bucks for a "het", and they don't find out they've been railed until a year or more later, when they're producing a bunch of normal offspring... For the people that have seen this morph, that's awesome, it sounds beautiful, but until people see some quality photos, or see these guys in person, there's going to be doubts...that's just how it is, especially when your talking that kind of money.
Rocky
Established Member
Nico, I understand what you are saying because you are right, the snake scene is like that. However, the reason I wouldn't doubt some unknown breeder for having it is because there are a lot of unknown breeders to the public all over the place. I believe if one of the more known breeders had this morph they would have it on their site and that morph would be more publicly known. But since noone knows much about it and it's rare I could see an unknown breeder having it.
On the other hand... Someone could of heard about this uber rare morph and tried to sell it as that. I would think that the people in charge of the show would of tried to have some legitimacy to their vendors though.
I doubt he sold them though so we will never know.
On the other hand... Someone could of heard about this uber rare morph and tried to sell it as that. I would think that the people in charge of the show would of tried to have some legitimacy to their vendors though.
I doubt he sold them though so we will never know.
Chris Anderson
Dr. House of Chameleons
Nic - Being hesitant, questioning and deciding not to spend your money on these animals because you weren't confident in what the seller was saying or showing is one thing. Calling it a scam, etc., is completely different. In the former, you're attempting to be an educated buyer and not get yourself into something that you aren't convinced of. The latter is making wild and naive accusations and in this case, based on false assumptions
Julie - Most people in the US hadn't heard anything about the translucent veileds before they landed on the US market either.
Chris
Julie - Most people in the US hadn't heard anything about the translucent veileds before they landed on the US market either.
Chris
Pumpkinface
New Member
Official Chameleonforums meet up in Germany, where the blue babies were sent! or we could just keep our eyes on Germany for fancy new morphs >_<
