Breeding petstore chams

Theveiled

Theveiled

Avid Member
I saw on YouTube someone who thought they had a male cham but it ended up being female. Now he says he HAS to breed her because it helps them lay eggs better. I asked where he got the cham from and if he was going to hatch them. He said the female was from petsmart and he was going to hatch the eggs and sell the offspring. I can also see in the video some things wrong with the cage. Can someone please tell me if this is wrong. I think it is but would like some facts also to back myself up on why it is (if it is)
Thanks!
 
Theveiled said:
I saw on YouTube someone who thought they had a male cham but it ended up being female. Now he says he HAS to breed her because it helps them lay eggs better. I asked where he got the cham from and if he was going to hatch them. He said the female was from petsmart and he was going to hatch the eggs and sell the offspring. I can also see in the video some things wrong with the cage. Can someone please tell me if this is wrong. I think it is but would like some facts also to back myself up on why it is (if it is)
Thanks!
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You might mention the cost/return on investment. A veiled wholesale sells for $8. My feed bill for my babies is hundreds of dollars a month.
 
Theveiled said:
Its only 8 dollars!?!?!? But then you go to the petstore and pay 50 to 100?:confused: talk about a markup:mad:
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Not really. The store doesn't buy them for $8. They buy them from a middleman. Everyone gets their cut. There are a lot of animals that are lost, even captive born and bred. They cost a lot to keep. Why shouldn't the stores make a profit?
 
jajeanpierre said:
Not really. The store doesn't buy them for $8. They buy them from a middleman. Everyone gets their cut. There are a lot of animals that are lost, even captive born and bred. They cost a lot to keep. Why shouldn't the stores make a profit?
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Oh so does the breeder sell wholesale? I dont know much about marketing. I have no problem with the stores making a profit but I would accept it better if some took better care of the animals they sell. You would think for animals that need special requirements they would try to meet them better. They just see them as merchandise i guess. (Talking about large chain retailers)
 
My biggest annoyance with this is that he thought he bought a male and it ended up a female.....if you do not have enough knowledge of chams to know the difference between male and female, especially on a veiled, then you have no business breeding them. And I'm just assuming it's a veiled because it is from pet smart.

As for making the eggs easier to lay, I have no idea, I've never heard that before.
 
I wouldn't assume fertile eggs are any easier lay than non-fertile, the same amount of work goes into each. Perhaps even more work goes into the fertile, not sure though. Also the breeding process is hard on the females. Most people only breed their females once a year because they retain sperm for three layings usually and it makes them lay every time. When sometimes with the right temps and the right amount of feeding non-fertile eggs can be reduced even stopped.
 
I wouldn't assume fertile eggs are any easier lay than non-fertile, the same amount of work goes into each. Perhaps even more work goes into the fertile, not sure though. Also the breeding process is hard on the females. Most people only breed their females once a year because they retain sperm for three layings usually and it makes them lay every time. When sometimes with the right temps and the right amount of feeding non-fertile eggs can be reduced even stopped.
 
I don't believe there is any difference besides the fact that if you breed her you can predict when the eggs are coming vs if she is laying duds you have less of a clue when to expect them. But either way it should not matter because any egg laying female chameleon should have a laying box in her cage at all times.
Wether they are fertile or not she will lay them pretty much the same.
 
Theveiled said:
Im also wondering, is the statement about fertile eggs being easier to lay true?
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It has always been much harder for my females to lay fertile eggs than infertile. The fertile ones just seems much harder for them to carry, lay and recover afterwards. I also think the fertile ones take more calcium from the female.
 
My female had a harder timer laying the infertile eggs didn't want to lay them ended having to put a live plant in her dig spot and she buried them under it
Both and my chameleons are "petstore bought and are horney freaks
 

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Theveiled said:
What are your opinions on breeding petstore chams though?
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What is it that you think is different about a chameleon you buy from a petstore vs one you buy from someone else.
A veiled chameleon is a veiled chameleon no matter where you purchase it.
As long as it's healthy you can try to breed it.
 
Craigwyatt said:
What is it that you think is different about a chameleon you buy from a petstore vs one you buy from someone else.
A veiled chameleon is a veiled chameleon no matter where you purchase it.
As long as it's healthy you can try to breed it.
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What about genetics? At a reputable breeder usually you can see the parents.
 
The pet store ones are usually dehydrated and starved you just have to rehabilitate them and the pet store ones tend to not be as colorful as one you could get from a breeder
 
If I were interested in breeding chameleons, I'd do research. Among the top things you'd discover, doing the most basic search, is 1) don't support big chain stores by purchasing/"rescuing" a chameleon from them and 2) how to determine the gender of the species I wanted to keep.
I consider breeding veileds a lot like breeding puppies. Are there instances where it's a good thing, sure, but veileds have saturated the market, making them cheap, meaning the average, uneducated, and poorly equipped buyer can acquire and subject the animals to a miserable life. If I were to breed veileds, I'd focus on premium bloodlines, with better colors, higher casques, and not breed chain store animals, that may be line bred, are average at best, aren't being cared for properly, and worst of all, encourages them to continue to offer animals they have no business offering, since they do not provide the proper care the animals require.
What doesn one do with a bunch of animals they breed, in a market already saturated with them? The prospect of the animals finding their way to capable homes drops dramatically.
Breeding any egg laying species and even not breeding them, often leads to death and debility in captive females and shouldn't be taken lightly. I never understand the people that start with a Petsmart animal or female, that also claim they have done their research. If you REALLY researched your options, than at best, you are willing to make poor choices, even once informed and at worst, completely incapable of comprehending basic chameleon care, but most haven't done real research and that's easier to forgive and correct, if someone wants to learn.
Buying veileds from chain stores is like buying puppies from puppy mills or retailers that source from puppy mills. Buying animals from reputable breeders promotes good husbandry, healthy captive population, and contributes to the hobby, while purchasing mass produced, poorly treated animals, of unknown origin and parentage, does the exact opposite.
 
Extensionofgreen said:
If I were interested in breeding chameleons, I'd do research. Among the top things you'd discover, doing the most basic search, is 1) don't support big chain stores by purchasing/"rescuing" a chameleon from them and 2) how to determine the gender of the species I wanted to keep.
I consider breeding veileds a lot like breeding puppies. Are there instances where it's a good thing, sure, but veileds have saturated the market, making them cheap, meaning the average, uneducated, and poorly equipped buyer can acquire and subject the animals to a miserable life. If I were to breed veileds, I'd focus on premium bloodlines, with better colors, higher casques, and not breed chain store animals, that may be line bred, are average at best, aren't being cared for properly, and worst of all, encourages them to continue to offer animals they have no business offering, since they do not provide the proper care the animals require.
What doesn one do with a bunch of animals they breed, in a market already saturated with them? The prospect of the animals finding their way to capable homes drops dramatically.
Breeding any egg laying species and even not breeding them, often leads to death and debility in captive females and shouldn't be taken lightly. I never understand the people that start with a Petsmart animal or female, that also claim they have done their research. If you REALLY researched your options, than at best, you are willing to make poor choices, even once informed and at worst, completely incapable of comprehending basic chameleon care, but most haven't done real research and that's easier to forgive and correct, if someone wants to learn.
Buying veileds from chain stores is like buying puppies from puppy mills or retailers that source from puppy mills. Buying animals from reputable breeders promotes good husbandry, healthy captive population, and contributes to the hobby, while purchasing mass produced, poorly treated animals, of unknown origin and parentage, does the exact opposite.
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No its not me its someone else. Thanks for the advice though! I wish I could breed chams but dont have the time right now.
 
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