Building an automated habitat

MagicEngineer said:
I will be building it all myself. I am a retired engineer, and projects like this keep my mind agile. Yes, the effect will be more aesthetic than anything else, but it will be cool. I just want to make sure I don't do anything harmful to my sons pet.
Click to expand...

Just covering the basics completely (something that most of us fail to do) is challenging enough.
 
sweet concept Magic. ive always wanted to do something like this but have failed to have the time and investment capital.

would you like to elaborate on what your plans are for the lighting? i see three possible configurations.

1) personally when ive envisioned doing something like this i wanted to put the basking bulb on a track. have it start on one side of the cage about a foot from the top have it dimmed in the morning and as it moves along the track increase in intensity until it reaches the basking spot where it would remain at full intensity until later in the day when it would make its wayback down to the other side (or the original position)

2) either that or the more easily accomplished (because the track with a dimming effect sounds a bit complicated) 2-3 separate basking fixtures. one dimmer in the morning for the first couple of hours, then alternate over to the brighter basking bulb for the majority of then day, and then down to another dimmer one in the evening a couple hours before lights out.

i think this would promote a lot more activity.

3) you could always just put one fixed basking bulb on a timed dimmer.

sounds like you plan on dimming, or shutting off the basking bulb during "rain storms" how did you plan on simulating the rain? flushing the the top with water and having pinholes for it to leak through? or something more along the lines of the "Aquazamp Raindome"?

i think the lightning effect would be cool to incorporate and the sound of the thunder shouldnt hurt unless its overly bass-y since they dont hear sound they feel it. i just wouldnt leave the noise and lighting effects on by default, id put it on a separate switch so when you want to show it off you can.

in theory the cricket thing sounds good and hopefully it works, it just might be hard to convince a bug to do what you want it to... even with the appropriate stimuli.

what were your plans for ventilation? im assuming the enclosure is going to be glass since you mentioned this endeavor is primarily for aesthetic purposes. were you planning on just venting the top and bottom so the heat from the light gives a chimney effect? or were you going to put a small fan in there hooked up to a humidistat or hygrometer? since you said you wanted to make things complicated for yourself you should probably do that, especially since youll be able to chose a specific humidity you want rather than relying on the convection of a basking bulb.

is that enough for now? or should i keep going? ill keep going :p

so since you wanted this to be natural looking and simulate a natural environment im assuming you plan on using some sort of substrate? and live plants?

you want to make it even more complicated? i can help you do that. do you know anything about hydroponics? how about aeroponics?

i can draw something up for you to give you a basic idea of what im talking about if you care.

essentially this sounds ideal because you can keep the roots of whatever plants youll be using hidden (no ugly pots) underneath the tray where the water from "raining" him will be collected (and subsequently drained, im assuming you put this into consideration). you can just keep pillow moss or something in your rain collection tray with your other plants protruding up out.

the way areoponics works is you have drum with baskets that hold the roots. inside the drum you have misting heads that spray the roots (that just hang there) with a nutrient solution that is pumped out of a reservoir below. to where the nutrient solution drains back to be recycled.

am i getting a little too intense with this? hahaha, my bad. this is just the plans i have in my head for an ideal enclosure.

you should post some blueprints XD

sry for interrogating you, i just want to do something like that eventually.
 
The zoo in Cleveland has a rain/storm simulator that has reptiles in it. They rotate different animals on the island but they all seem to take little to no interest in it. There are reptiles all around it also fair very well. It is in the rain forest exhibit, might be able to find it online. Good luck, can't wait to see the final product.
 
Man my friend and I were talking about the same environmental controllers the other day. I even thought about the feeding thing, but I'm thinking getting those darn crickets to be predictable could be an issue. Maybe the tube is dark and box is dark, and a small led comes on at a determined time to drive them into it? Or just have little days worth vials of crickets that drop into his feeding cup. That might be easier than micro switches and elaborate contraptions.
 
DekuScrub said:
sweet concept Magic. ive always wanted to do something like this but have failed to have the time and investment capital.

would you like to elaborate on what your plans are for the lighting? i see three possible configurations.

1) personally when ive envisioned doing something like this i wanted to put the basking bulb on a track. have it start on one side of the cage about a foot from the top have it dimmed in the morning and as it moves along the track increase in intensity until it reaches the basking spot where it would remain at full intensity until later in the day when it would make its wayback down to the other side (or the original position)

2) either that or the more easily accomplished (because the track with a dimming effect sounds a bit complicated) 2-3 separate basking fixtures. one dimmer in the morning for the first couple of hours, then alternate over to the brighter basking bulb for the majority of then day, and then down to another dimmer one in the evening a couple hours before lights out.

i think this would promote a lot more activity.
3) you could always just put one fixed basking bulb on a timed dimmer.
Click to expand...

what I have done so far on the light dimming, is actually pretty simple. I bought 2 dimmer switches at lowes (the slide type) I mounted them to a piece of 1x2 along with 2 servo motors. A piece of bent coat hanger acts as a linkage between the servos and the dimmer switches. The same arduino board that controls the auto feeder controls the dimming cycle as well (and everything else...it's more or less the projects brain) I haven't worked out the timing completely yet as I want to wait until its all put together and I can evaluate temps. The nice thing is that the controlling board is programmable so If i want more or less intensity I can always modify the program. BTW the tracking light system idea is awesome.

sounds like you plan on dimming, or shutting off the basking bulb during "rain storms" how did you plan on simulating the rain? flushing the the top with water and having pinholes for it to leak through? or something more along the lines of the "Aquazamp Raindome"?
Click to expand...

The rain system is a work in progress. What I have so far is a water tank with a line valve at its base. This feeds a spiral of 3/8 inch clear plastic tubing that is sandwiched between 2 pieces of wire mesh. Tiny holes are in the tubing starting fairly close together on the outside but getting farther apart as you near the center. This is so the water will fill the entire tube instead of all leaking out of the center holes.(The water starts at the center and moves outward) Another servo motor opens and closes the valve. Once I am farther along, I will experiment with different amounts of open time and just how far the valve is opened. It will take some trial and error to get the water to flow uniformly, I expect I will be making adjustments for a week. I also may have to reroute the tubing to avoid the heat from the lamps....That part of the project is at least a week away though.


what were your plans for ventilation? im assuming the enclosure is going to be glass since you mentioned this endeavor is primarily for aesthetic purposes. were you planning on just venting the top and bottom so the heat from the light gives a chimney effect? or were you going to put a small fan in there hooked up to a humidistat or hygrometer? since you said you wanted to make things complicated for yourself you should probably do that, especially since youll be able to chose a specific humidity you want rather than relying on the convection of a basking bulb.
Click to expand...

Actually it will be a nylon mesh screen cage. Since I am still working on all the systems that will be housed in the top. I have not started the actual cage portion but that is the easy part. The top part is a hexagon with 18" per side. That puts it at roughly 36" by 30". I plan on about 5' tall (Yeah I know. Hexagon is kinda 1980s cliche but I'm an old man) I though about using a hydrometer as a sensor that controls when the rain falls, but unfortunately the only ones that i found that can be easily modified to interface with the control board started around $165. So, Instead I will just spend several days testing the humidity and adjusting the rain cycle timing until it gives me what I want.

so since you wanted this to be natural looking and simulate a natural environment im assuming you plan on using some sort of substrate? and live plants?
Click to expand...

I plan on putting a live ficus in it with a pot wide enough to cover most of the cage bottom. (I'm still looking for the right pot) That way any excess water will just water the tree. I would like to put some smaller plants around the base of the ficus, but that is the fun artistic part of the project I get to work out after the hard part is done. I have also considered building a sort of bamboo scaffolding around and through the tree to make climbing easier.

you want to make it even more complicated? i can help you do that. do you know anything about hydroponics? how about aeroponics?
Click to expand...

Not something I have worked with......and I will have spent enough on this thing with what I am doing, so if it adds too much expense I would have to say no.

i can draw something up for you to give you a basic idea of what i'm talking about if you care.
Click to expand...

If you have an idea (that wont bust my budget) I would love to hear it. If nothing else, it might become part of a later project.

essentially this sounds ideal because you can keep the roots of whatever plants youll be using hidden (no ugly pots) underneath the tray where the water from "raining" him will be collected (and subsequently drained, im assuming you put this into consideration). you can just keep pillow moss or something in your rain collection tray with your other plants protruding up out.

the way areoponics works is you have drum with baskets that hold the roots. inside the drum you have misting heads that spray the roots (that just hang there) with a nutrient solution that is pumped out of a reservoir below. to where the nutrient solution drains back to be recycled.

am i getting a little too intense with this? hahaha, my bad. this is just the plans i have in my head for an ideal enclosure.
Click to expand...

I do like these ideas, It might be something I look into later.

you should post some blueprints XD
Click to expand...

I learned a long time ago, that if you draw everything out precisely and you make a small mistake you end up redoing a lot of things. If however you just work from a rough sketch and work out the specifics as you go, than a mistake can often be turned into an improvement. So you will have to be happy with photos when it is completed. (I might draw out some plans when it is done if I have time, but that is a lot like going back to work.)
 
ChappyMcChap said:
Man my friend and I were talking about the same environmental controllers the other day. I even thought about the feeding thing, but I'm thinking getting those darn crickets to be predictable could be an issue. Maybe the tube is dark and box is dark, and a small led comes on at a determined time to drive them into it? Or just have little days worth vials of crickets that drop into his feeding cup. That might be easier than micro switches and elaborate contraptions.
Click to expand...

i get how it works with the motion sensor and all and thats an excellent idea. but more often than not youll find them hiding in egg cartons, in the dark more than happy to have food near by. i think cycling crix into a container where they have the ability to exit once they have exhausted their food source or have had their fill would be more effective.

but you also want then to make themselves available in an arboreal setting. rather than falling out of a hole and wandering the substrate you would rather be seeing them up high where your chameleon dwells. thats why i feel its more important for him to focus on the other systems on his set up.

but i honestly wish him all the success in the world with his cricket dispenser. is a great idea and i hope it works, i mean it should as long as he has enough crickets in the holding tank. seems like a lot of variables, and if he could put the supplementation between the holding tank and the enclosure that would be ideal

*edit

what species do you plan on keeping in here btw? i dont think you mentioned
 
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ChappyMcChap said:
Man my friend and I were talking about the same environmental controllers the other day. I even thought about the feeding thing, but I'm thinking getting those darn crickets to be predictable could be an issue. Maybe the tube is dark and box is dark, and a small led comes on at a determined time to drive them into it? Or just have little days worth vials of crickets that drop into his feeding cup. That might be easier than micro switches and elaborate contraptions.
Click to expand...

Actually my original design involves a rotating compartmentalized wheel that you would preload with crickets. when feeding time comes, it rotates 15 degrees and the next batch of crickets drops out. It would have been simpler and more controlled, but the pain of loading it, the need to buy a stepper motor, (I already have servos) and the potential for scissoring crickets as it moved made me go back to the drawing board.
 
MagicEngineer said:
what I have done so far on the light dimming, is actually pretty simple. I bought 2 dimmer switches at lowes (the slide type) I mounted them to a piece of 1x2 along with 2 servo motors. A piece of bent coat hanger acts as a linkage between the servos and the dimmer switches. The same arduino board that controls the auto feeder controls the dimming cycle as well (and everything else...it's more or less the projects brain) I haven't worked out the timing completely yet as I want to wait until its all put together and I can evaluate temps. The nice thing is that the controlling board is programmable so If i want more or less intensity I can always modify the program. BTW the tracking light system idea is awesome.

so the plan is that one will intensify as the other dims? good idea especially if the morning/evening light are a lower wattage

The rain system is a work in progress. What I have so far is a water tank with a line valve at its base. This feeds a spiral of 3/8 inch clear plastic tubing that is sandwiched between 2 pieces of wire mesh. Tiny holes are in the tubing starting fairly close together on the outside but getting farther apart as you near the center. This is so the water will fill the entire tube instead of all leaking out of the center holes.(The water starts at the center and moves outward) Another servo motor opens and closes the valve. Once I am farther along, I will experiment with different amounts of open time and just how far the valve is opened. It will take some trial and error to get the water to flow uniformly, I expect I will be making adjustments for a week. I also may have to reroute the tubing to avoid the heat from the lamps....That part of the project is at least a week away though.

someone else on the boards recently posted a "rain" setup based one the same premise. a pump that feeds a hose, thats coiled around with pinholes in it. to simulate rain, im not sure who it was. maybe you could get a hold of them and get some input on how effective his setup was and and/or how it could be improved upon

Actually it will be a nylon mesh screen cage. Since I am still working on all the systems that will be housed in the top. I have not started the actual cage portion but that is the easy part. The top part is a hexagon with 18" per side. That puts it at roughly 36" by 30". I plan on about 5' tall (Yeah I know. Hexagon is kinda 1980s cliche but I'm an old man) I though about using a hydrometer as a sensor that controls when the rain falls, but unfortunately the only ones that i found that can be easily modified to interface with the control board started around $165. So, Instead I will just spend several days testing the humidity and adjusting the rain cycle timing until it gives me what I want.

sounds good, with glass you need to worry about the water stagnating causing upper respiratory infections and such. you also need to water them much less frequently in glass. and if you wanted to make youre rain system integral you would have to use it with much less frequently. which kind of takes away from the concept.

also keep in mind the lighting on nylon can seriously degrade the screen, more so the heat from the basking bulbs than the uvb or any florescents. it gets bleached and brittle. i always recommend black aluminum because of this

I plan on putting a live ficus in it with a pot wide enough to cover most of the cage bottom. (I'm still looking for the right pot) That way any excess water will just water the tree. I would like to put some smaller plants around the base of the ficus, but that is the fun artistic part of the project I get to work out after the hard part is done. I have also considered building a sort of bamboo scaffolding around and through the tree to make climbing easier.

im focused on function over form. but form makes little difference in your mothers basement. but i do the same thing, just use potted ficus and schefflera rather than cover the soil like most forum goers concenerned with impaction i just heavily plant the soil with spider plants. be ware too much soil will lead to a LOT of fungus

Not something I have worked with......and I will have spent enough on this thing with what I am doing, so if it adds too much expense I would have to say no.

the main expense is the pump, otherwise it it little expense (depending on what youve got laying around) essentially its the same pump youd be using on hydration of your cham

If you have an idea (that wont bust my budget) I would love to hear it. If nothing else, it might become part of a later project.



I do like these ideas, It might be something I look into later.

ill draw it up tomorrow when i find some graph paper

I learned a long time ago, that if you draw everything out precisely and you make a small mistake you end up redoing a lot of things. If however you just work from a rough sketch and work out the specifics as you go, than a mistake can often be turned into an improvement. So you will have to be happy with photos when it is completed. (I might draw out some plans when it is done if I have time, but that is a lot like going back to work.)
Click to expand...

see there in lies your problem, i have no formal education. so i dont have little voices in the back of my head telling me "no dont do it like that" or this is "incomplete, or lacking" i expect needing to tweak things and when i draw things out its an incomplete generalized concept that can (usually) be augmented depending on the tools and materials i have at hand

you definitely need to keep track of how your project progresses. and make a blog while you are at it. it could end up helping out many a keeper in the future. and definitely post a vid once youre done. i always enjoy seeing people going above and beyond the call of duty
 
OK, for those that said they were interested, here are some changes I made to the rain drip system to make it work properly. Instead of one tank, the system now has two. The larger first tank holds about a gallon. From there the servo controlled valve fills a smaller (and lower mounted) distribution tank. From that tank four separate coils of tubing are attached to the wire mesh top of the cage. This tubing has 1/32 holes along its length from which the water drips. The second tank allows the servo valve to be closed and still have a way for air to get into the tubes. (Without airflow you get a vacuum effect and the water does not drop.) By changing the size of the air hole at the top of the distribution tank, you can adjust the rate at which the water drips.
 
I have found a lot of information on how long the UVB light should be on, but what I have not found is consistent info on the basking light. Here is my next question on this project. How long should the basking light be left on, and how should that cycle work in relation to the uvb cycle.

Here is the cycle as I have it set now:
7am first watering 40 seconds of light rain (about 1 cup of water)
8am UVB fades on
9am basking light fades on
9:30am feeding cycles begin
11am second watering
3pm third watering
7pm fourth watering and basking bulb stays off
8pm uvb bulb fades out for the night

for the waterings the lights both fade out for effect and back on when it is done. On the last one only the uvb fades back on. The ambient temp in the room is usually about 72.

Any input on this schedule would be appreciated.
 
MagicEngineer said:
I have found a lot of information on how long the UVB light should be on, but what I have not found is consistent info on the basking light. Here is my next question on this project. How long should the basking light be left on, and how should that cycle work in relation to the uvb cycle.

Here is the cycle as I have it set now:
7am first watering 40 seconds of light rain (about 1 cup of water)
8am UVB fades on

Basking should be on from 7 am to 7 pm
9am basking light fades on
9:30am feeding cycles begin
11am second watering
3pm third watering
7pm fourth watering and basking bulb stays off
8pm uvb bulb fades out for the night

for the waterings the lights both fade out for effect and back on when it is done. On the last one only the uvb fades back on. The ambient temp in the room is usually about 72.

Any input on this schedule would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
 
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