Buying 1-week old panthers...

Fact vs. Opinions

Fidel said:
I've had 1 week old panthers shipped overnight before. They were fine and are alive and well now. The temperatures were stable and mild though, both in origin and destination.
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So far the only "bad" responses have been opinions and assumtions(I did ask for that, so thanks) BUT the ony fact I saw was this one, that everything was fine...;)
 
Warrix642 said:
So far the only "bad" responses have been opinions and assumtions(I did ask for that, so thanks) BUT the ony fact I saw was this one, that everything was fine...;)
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Well then my question would be, why even make this thread if you are going to do it anyways? You have had seasoned breeders, who have been doing this for YEARS tell you that babies need stable climates because they are fragile, but you take the one post that said they have done it before and everything was fine because when they shipped the weather was good in origin and destination. Roll them die, dont crap out brother!
 
From looking back at you older post and threads I see that you are not only new to the forums but new to chameleons. Chameleons are fragile in general at any age. I've been on here not even two years yet and you just would not believe how many sick and dead chams I've seen. It's just about a daily occurrence. Then just think about the large number that die from keepers that never even find the forums.
 
Just out of curiosity what do you consider the yougest "safe" age to ship a baby panther?[/QUOTE]

I'd say 3 months.
 
Warrix642 said:
I see what your saying but I am a little paranoid about it all...I would rather have 3 deaths instead of 38. I'd rather be safe than sorry. If I lose $200...o well, who cares? Im sure in everyones first clutch there were a few more you could have saved if you had raised 3 dif. hatchlings before yours hatched.
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Out of my first clutch of Veileds-69 eggs made it to hatching-69 Veileds hatched, 68 made it to 3+ months (1 died getting it's tongue stuck-unavoidable), and many, many forum members have healthy 15 month olds from that clutch.

Raising Panthers-nearly identical to raising Veileds, but you run into weak clutches, they are smaller, and have a higher neonate mortality rate. Practicing, in my opinion, with these young babies, is not going to really give you any experience.
 
I tell it like it is

jannb said:
From looking back at you older post and threads I see that you are not only new to the forums but new to chameleons. Chameleons are fragile in general at any age. I've been on here not even two years yet and you just would not believe how many sick and dead chams I've seen. It's just about a daily occurrence. Then just think about the large number that die from keepers that never even find the forums.
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I am new to the forums but I have had chameleons for around a year now. Never had any problems "knock on wood" thanks mostly to the forums. I give all my chams 110% of my care, money, and time. All of my chams are well fed and from what I can tell are "happy". I ask so many questions so I can have a better chance at knowing where I could go wrong and what bad things can happen so I have a better shot at preventing bad stuff. I think thats what this place was made for. I'd bet most of the chams that died never got to go to a vet or didn't recieve proper care 100% of the time, not to disrepect those who have had chams pass with proper care. And think of all the bad ones you heard about and multiply that by 20 because I bet most people don't chime in when bad things happen...But the thing is you learn the most from mistakes, so it shoud be posted when something bad happens so we can all learn from 1 mistake instead of all learning the hard way. If something bad happens with this, I will post it on here. I will try to teach as many people as I can not to make the same mistake, but if it goes well then I will also post on here so people can know you can do it. I only saw 1 good post and no bad from actual exp. with shipping 1 week-olds. I just like learning/raising/feeding/teaching everything about chams so I will be on here a lot with lots of questions. I will also be on here a lot giving advice! I own 4 chams now and I have eggs on the way I plan on buying 3-5 pygmys and also these 3 hatchlings so I put a lot of time/money in this. It has only been fun so far and I plan on keeping it that way, no matter what.

Thanks,
Dustin
 
Julirs said:
Out of my first clutch of Veileds-69 eggs made it to hatching-69 Veileds hatched, 68 made it to 3+ months (1 died getting it's tongue stuck-unavoidable), and many, many forum members have healthy 15 month olds from that clutch.

Raising Panthers-nearly identical to raising Veileds, but you run into weak clutches, they are smaller, and have a higher neonate mortality rate. Practicing, in my opinion, with these young babies, is not going to really give you any experience.
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Thats good to know, REAL FACTS thats the kind of post I'm lookin for! Thanks man
 
Warrix642 said:
I am new to the forums but I have had chameleons for around a year now. Never had any problems "knock on wood" thanks mostly to the forums. I give all my chams 110% of my care, money, and time. All of my chams are well fed and from what I can tell are "happy". I ask so many questions so I can have a better chance at knowing where I could go wrong and what bad things can happen so I have a better shot at preventing bad stuff. I think thats what this place was made for. I'd bet most of the chams that died never got to go to a vet or didn't recieve proper care 100% of the time, not to disrepect those who have had chams pass with proper care. And think of all the bad ones you heard about and multiply that by 20 because I bet most people don't chime in when bad things happen...But the thing is you learn the most from mistakes, so it shoud be posted when something bad happens so we can all learn from 1 mistake instead of all learning the hard way. If something bad happens with this, I will post it on here. I will try to teach as many people as I can no to make the same mistake, but if it goes well then I will also post on here so people can know you can do it. I only saw 1 good post and no bad from actual exp. with shipping 1 week-olds. I just like learning/raising/feeding/teaching everything about chams so I will be on here a lot with lots of questions. I will also be on here a lot giving advice! I own 4 chams now and I have eggs on the way I plan on buying 3-5 pygmys and also these 3 hatchlings so I put a lot of time/money in this. It has only been fun so far and I plan on keeping it that way, no matter what.

Thanks,
Dustin
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If you want to type in "googlez" in the search area. My female veiled died with kidney disease, out of my control and actually Dr. Greek told me she should have died at 5 months not 9, but my husbandry was spot on. So chams dont always die because the owner. I gave her 100% and was brought to tears watching her die in my hands. It is undescribible and traumitizing. So yes nearly everything is experience and learning from it, but it seems like you have the feeling you are more experienced then you really are.
 
GooglezNvincent said:
If you want to type in "googlez" in the search area. My female veiled died with kidney disease, out of my control and actually Dr. Greek told me she should have died at 5 months not 9, but my husbandry was spot on. So chams dont always die because the owner. I gave her 100% and was brought to tears watching her die in my hands. It is undescribible and traumitizing. So yes nearly everything is experience and learning from it, but it seems like you have the feeling you are more experienced then you really are.
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Sorry to hear about your female. I did say some deaths can't be avoided but you would be being naive if you said most deaths can't be avoided. Dr. Greek is the best vet ever if he said 5 months and you made it to 9 good job! How did I ever put off I have the feeling I am so experieced? I feel I put off the opposite, that I am trying to get exp. I ask questions everyday to learn, and pass on what I already learned...that is what everyone on here does to some extent. Why are you taking so much offense to me and my posts? You don't need to beat around the bush, if you have something to say, say it!
 
No i dont take offense. I have been in your position, so i know how you feel and what you are thinking. I am a go getter, i go full throttle when i see something i want. But it is not a good thing in the case of chams. I dont mean to put off that i am beating around the bush, trust me i have the warnings from the admins in my past to show you i say what i think. I am basically trying to warn you without sounding like a nosy a$$. It is none of my business what you do, but i do want to try and help you. Understand? its kind of complicated. I dont EVER want anyone to have to go through what i did with googlez when she died in my hands. It was really brutal! i watch war movies with people blowing up and that is not as bad as what i watched this poor little creature go through. So thats what i am trying to say, just be cautious with the fragile chams. In doing so i really dont think getting those 3 1 week olds is the way to go. Anyhow, you said you are getting pigmys! they have a 60 day incubation, so you can practice with them instead of the 3 panthers.
 
GooglezNvincent said:
No i dont take offense. I have been in your position, so i know how you feel and what you are thinking. I am a go getter, i go full throttle when i see something i want. But it is not a good thing in the case of chams. I dont mean to put off that i am beating around the bush, trust me i have the warnings from the admins in my past to show you i say what i think. I am basically trying to warn you without sounding like a nosy a$$. It is none of my business what you do, but i do want to try and help you. Understand? its kind of complicated. I dont EVER want anyone to have to go through what i did with googlez when she died in my hands. It was really brutal! i watch war movies with people blowing up and that is not as bad as what i watched this poor little creature go through. So thats what i am trying to say, just be cautious with the fragile chams. In doing so i really dont think getting those 3 1 week olds is the way to go. Anyhow, you said you are getting pigmys! they have a 60 day incubation, so you can practice with them instead of the 3 panthers.
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Sounds like we are very similar. It's good to know we get warnings for being bad;) I think I will get the pygmys and hold off for at least a few weeks/months on the panthers...Everyone seems to agree shipping young is bad and frowned apon, and that I won't get any valuble hatchling exp. I guess I can try to wait until mine hatch then go crazy with that! Thanks for all the advice everybody!!!!!!!!!!! You have changed my mind for the good of 3 baby chams... I guess i'll buy extra pygmys.
 
Warrix642 said:
Sounds like we are very similar. It's good to know we get warnings for being bad;) I think I will get the pygmys and hold off for at least a few weeks/months on the panthers...Everyone seems to agree shipping young is bad and frowned apon, and that I won't get any valuble hatchling exp. I guess I can try to wait until mine hatch then go crazy with that! Thanks for all the advice everybody!!!!!!!!!!! You have changed my mind for the good of 3 baby chams... I guess i'll buy extra pygmys.
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Wise choice. Thank you! :D
 
Hmmmm not your every day topic, so ill bite. . . Baby chameleons actually ship well if done so correctly, just as any chameleon, give them what they need in transit by way of a damp paper towel, some sticks and a heat or cold pack and they usually arrive just fine. However shipping the chameleon is not really the problem, it is dealing with said chameleon after you unpack it which is; like what has been said previously, babies like things to be consistent (in my experience anyhoo), when you take a baby from 1 keeper to another the style changes. You are not going to keep the baby like breeder X has been; you may say that you are but the reality is that you are not; period. Having a baby 3 months-ish of age it is able to adapt better and thus thrive with the change in cage once acclimated to its new environment. One week old babies on the other hand are a different story.

Veileds and panther are peas and carrots, I keep baby veileds outside from day 1 if the weather is able however I tired the same thing with my panthers and they did not thrive as well. Keep in mind that I live in a desert which is hardly prime panther habitat so if you live in a place like FL this may be done too. However the point remains 1 week old chameleons are fragile (ITS ITAILIAN! *name that movie!*) so much care and attention must be given.

If you want to blow a few hundred bucks you can do so, however I would highly suggest that you take that money and put it towards something that will help you succeed with your own babies, a new set of cages perhaps? Or even better an auto mister of your favorite flavor! When your eggs hatch you can break them up into several groups and see what group fairs the best with the care you are giving them. Try screen cages, tubs, different light wattages, food, ect ect ect. It’s all a part of finding out what works best for you.
 
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