Cage Critique & Cham acting weird!

[PabloTheCham]

I recently expanded my veiled's cage to his adult enclosure. Ever since they change (yesterday), he has been with his mouth open and covered in spots (see pic below). I don't know if anything is wrong with him or if he is adjusting to his environment I caught him eating dirt yesterday, so i don't know if that is related to his odd behavior. His basking spot is also a higher temp: 90-95 degrees. Overall, Is my husbandry good? Is his new enclosure good? Anything helps. Unfortunately, I don't know his age, so if you know approximately how old he is that would help a lot. Here are the pics of the cage and his weird colors.

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Male Juvenile Veiled Chameleon. Not sure of a age. been in my care for a week
• Handling - Twice a day for a few minutes, he hisses when I take him out but is fine once I have him.
• Feeding - I feed him crickets and superworms, covered in calcium without d3. I feed him as much as he eats, and that is a lot (around 7 crix and 4-5 superworms), i gut load my crix with a few apple slices and a cricket powder mix thing, along with cricket quencher water crystals.
• Supplements - i dust almost every cricket with repticalcium without d3., with d3 once a month, a multivitamin once a month.
• Watering - I mist cham until all leaves have droplets on them. i do this at 7am, 3pm, 6pm, and maybe 9pm. i don't see him drink as I have to leave right after i mist. I just got him a dripper.
• Fecal Description - Never tested for anything, got him 3 days ago.
• History - none.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - screen cage, 4 feet tall 2 feet deep and 2 feet wide.
• Lighting - he is lit from 6:45 to 6:45. He has an intense basking spot lamp and a reptisun 5.0 uvb linear.
• Temperature - Basking spot is 90-95 and room temp is 72 degrees, so same at night. I measured basking spot with laser thermometer thingy.
• Humidity - Around 40% in the house and 50-70% after misting seshs.
• Plants - 2 umbrella plants
• Placement - The cage is a foot from the ceiling, it is in my room with minimal traffic.
• Location - Moutain View, California.

 

[Syreptyon]

Overall, I'd say you're doing a pretty good job! There are a couple changes I would recommend:

• Your cricket gutload looks like it might be lacking. Apples are not a very nutritious gutload - what is the "cricket powder" you use? Depending on what it is, you may be a-okay, though. As for fresh produce, I would steer you more in the direction of dark leafy greens like collards, turnip, and mustard greens. Sweet potato and papaya are some of my favorites as well.
• You should plan on using the D3 supplement and the multivitamin twice a month each, not just once a month.
• Your enclosure is looking to be off to a good start. I bet those plants will fill in really nicely. The one thing I would consider adding is more horizontal walkways. The dowels you have are all right, but there aren't enough of them. It would be better to use natural materials like real branches and vines, too, because it is important to the foot health of your chameleon to have walkways of varying diameters to stretch their feet.

The main comment I have for you is to please give your chameleon a break from you. Handling twice a day every day when you've only had him for a week is significantly too much. This is likely the most stressed out time period for your chameleon and he really needs time to be left alone to settle in. Handling too much right now is a likely way to break your cham's trust in you permanently. You specified that he hisses when you reach for him, which is a clear sign he wants to be left alone - and it is your obligation as owner to observe his body language, adjust your actions accordingly, and respect his boundaries.

The reason he stops hissing once he's out of the cage is because he's afraid and is no longer in his territory. This leads to a behavior change (which is a survival mechanism) and not an indication that he becomes comfortable with you after the initial stress.

 

[PabloTheCham]

Overall, I'd say you're doing a pretty good job! There are a couple changes I would recommend:

• Your cricket gutload looks like it might be lacking. Apples are not a very nutritious gutload - what is the "cricket powder" you use? Depending on what it is, you may be a-okay, though. As for fresh produce, I would steer you more in the direction of dark leafy greens like collards, turnip, and mustard greens. Sweet potato and papaya are some of my favorites as well.
• You should plan on using the D3 supplement and the multivitamin twice a month each, not just once a month.
• Your enclosure is looking to be off to a good start.

• bet those plants will fill in really nicely.

  
  
• . The one thing I would consider adding is more horizontal walkways. The dowels you have are all right, but there aren't enough of them. It would be better to use natural materials like real branches and vines, too, because it is important to the foot health of your chameleon to have walkways of varying diameters to stretch their feet.

The main comment I have for you is to please give your chameleon a break from you. Handling twice a day every day when you've only had him for a week is significantly too much. This is likely the most stressed out time period for your chameleon and he really needs time to be left alone to settle in. Handling too much right now is a likely way to break your cham's trust in you permanently. You specified that he hisses when you reach for him, which is a clear sign he wants to be left alone - and it is your obligation as owner to observe his body language, adjust your actions accordingly, and respect his boundaries.

The reason he stops hissing once he's out of the cage is because he's afraid and is no longer in his territory. This leads to a behavior change (which is a survival mechanism) and not an indication that he becomes comfortable with you after the initial stress.

The cricket powder is "Fluker's High Calcium Cricket Diet". I feed them apples and also a lot of carrots (forgot to put on the form).
i will add more dowels in his cage today.
As for the handling part, you said that I shouldn't hold him if he hisses. However, I heard that veileds, especially males, will always hiss if you go anywhere near them, so how can I tame him without him hissing? Since chameleons have reptilian brains and don't feel emotions, they will only associate you with a positive experience, or a negative one. What I thought made sense was that you have to get the cham out (hiss or no hiss), and do something pleasant with him, so that he is conditioned to think of a positive experience when he sees you, which will get him to stop hissing when interacting with him. I don't think a chameleon will ever climb onto you before being tamed. (tell me if i am wrong about all of this, it is just my logic)

My main question, however, is why is he posing like this? He isn't just doing it when I handle him, he has been permanently like this with his mouth open, even if I am nowhere near him. It kind of worries me that he has been taking this stance for the past few hours, even if i am not around.

 

[PabloTheCham]

Overall, I'd say you're doing a pretty good job! There are a couple changes I would recommend:

• Your cricket gutload looks like it might be lacking. Apples are not a very nutritious gutload - what is the "cricket powder" you use? Depending on what it is, you may be a-okay, though. As for fresh produce, I would steer you more in the direction of dark leafy greens like collards, turnip, and mustard greens. Sweet potato and papaya are some of my favorites as well.
• You should plan on using the D3 supplement and the multivitamin twice a month each, not just once a month.
• Your enclosure is looking to be off to a good start. I bet those plants will fill in really nicely. The one thing I would consider adding is more horizontal walkways. The dowels you have are all right, but there aren't enough of them. It would be better to use natural materials like real branches and vines, too, because it is important to the foot health of your chameleon to have walkways of varying diameters to stretch their feet.

The main comment I have for you is to please give your chameleon a break from you. Handling twice a day every day when you've only had him for a week is significantly too much. This is likely the most stressed out time period for your chameleon and he really needs time to be left alone to settle in. Handling too much right now is a likely way to break your cham's trust in you permanently. You specified that he hisses when you reach for him, which is a clear sign he wants to be left alone - and it is your obligation as owner to observe his body language, adjust your actions accordingly, and respect his boundaries.

The reason he stops hissing once he's out of the cage is because he's afraid and is no longer in his territory. This leads to a behavior change (which is a survival mechanism) and not an indication that he becomes comfortable with you after the initial stress.

again, please tell me if i am wrong

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Is your Chameleon able to get out of that heat?
90 to 95 is very hot for a Veiled Chameleon.
And OVERHEATING causes both the spots and the mouth gaping.

 

[RyanBRZ]

Definitely reduce handling entirely for a while, chameleons aren't dogs, they want to be alone. Occasional handling is ok but twice a day is way too much. I would add some more horizontal branches to give him more places to climb around on.

 

[PabloTheCham]

Is your Chameleon able to get out of that heat?
90 to 95 is very hot for a Veiled Chameleon.
And OVERHEATING causes both the spots and the mouth gaping.

look at the picture of the cage. Only a small corner of his cage, his basking spot, is that hot

 

[PabloTheCham]

Definitely reduce handling entirely for a while, chameleons aren't dogs, they want to be alone. Occasional handling is ok but twice a day is way too much. I would add some more horizontal branches to give him more places to climb around on.

I always see people on YouTube with chams that run on their human's hand when their cage is opened so they can be walked. I want to get my cham to associate me with positive experiences so he does that, or at least so he accepts me as part of his surroundings. how did all of these people on youtube get to do this without handling their cham at LEAST once a day?
(I might be totally wrong I really don't know, this is just my reasoning. I just don't think chams naturally go on their owners, but thast they are conditioned to be used to their owners.)

 

[GoodKarma19]

I always see people on YouTube with chams that run on their human's hand when their cage is opened so they can be walked. I want to get my cham to associate me with positive experiences so he does that, or at least so he accepts me as part of his surroundings. how did all of these people on youtube get to do this without handling their cham at LEAST once a day?
(I might be totally wrong I really don't know, this is just my reasoning. I just don't think chams naturally go on their owners, but thast they are conditioned to be used to their owners.)

YouTube in general isn't the best (or most realistic) source of information I'm afraid! It largely comes down to luck whether you get a cham that will tolerate handling or not, and veileds are especially well known for being aggressive.

Hand feeding favorite treats is the easiest way to create a positive association, which may help make them more amenable to handling. I like to use small superworms and bsfl. My veiled girl generally wants nothing to do with me (particularly my hands), but if I'm holding a snack she'll run down my arm to get at it! From there, I'll handle her for a couple minutes, bring her outside/etc, and then put her back in her enclosure and offer her another treat. Generally, I'll do this once or twice a week pending my schedule, and otherwise make no attempt to handle either of my chams. Occasionally they'll surprise me and initiate contact on their own, particularly my female panther.

Your cham may never want to leave his enclosure, if he's happy with it. That's just part of owning chams. Start with hand feeding and go from there imo.

 

[Dbash44]

Hey, @PabloTheCham

Looks like you're doing the right thing here getting all the help you can with all your questions. Better to ask instead of assuming things are right if you're unsure.

Mixing up the crickets diet is great as @Syreptyon mentioned. I use Repashy Bug Burger and add bee pollen to it as a gutload. If I use produce I dust it with Cricket Crack. Crickets go crazy for that.

What type of heat bulb are you using for your cham? Brand and wattage?

Also, I agree with the other member that was talking about branches. Your cham will be much happier with more branches. He'll also have more hiding spots. Some people don't like them, but I use the Exo-Terra jungle vine in combonation with real wood branches. I've never had a problem with them and they're like $4 on amazon. Sand blasted manzanita works well too. You can get that off LLL

Here's a great blog I read about building trust with your cham.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

 

[Ares05]

@PabloTheCham if you got your boy expecting him to climb onto you and be friendly, you got him for all the wrong reasons. Not saying its impossible, but its likely he will at-most tolerate you. Ive had my boy for 3.5 months. The second month of having him he had coccidia. Basically it was a whole month and a half of weighing him everyday and checking him over (along with medicine). He hated this. Excluding meds, you are basically doing the same thing to your boy, except twice a day. That whole coccidia bout made my boy very weary of me. Not to mention, I had him for a month before this. You've only had your boy for a week.

Basically what i'm saying is leave him alone. Your expecting far too much from him. Chameleons are essentially look-no-touch animals, alot of the time. Believe me, there is a select few who are friendlier than others, and some that are alot meaner/skittish than others. We've just got to love them for who they are, whether they hate you, or tolerate you.

 

[The Wild One]

I’ve had Coda for almost a year and she still despises me no matter how many times I hand fed her, it’s luck of the draw mostly.

 

[PabloTheCham]

@PabloTheCham if you got your boy expecting him to climb onto you and be friendly, you got him for all the wrong reasons. Not saying its impossible, but its likely he will at-most tolerate you. Ive had my boy for 3.5 months. The second month of having him he had coccidia. Basically it was a whole month and a half of weighing him everyday and checking him over (along with medicine). He hated this. Excluding meds, you are basically doing the same thing to your boy, except twice a day. That whole coccidia bout made my boy very weary of me. Not to mention, I had him for a month before this. You've only had your boy for a week.

Basically what i'm saying is leave him alone. Your expecting far too much from him. Chameleons are essentially look-no-touch animals, alot of the time. Believe me, there is a select few who are friendlier than others, and some that are alot meaner/skittish than others. We've just got to love them for who they are, whether they hate you, or tolerate you.

That's because every time you took it out of the cage, you were associated with a unpleasant experience. So why in the world would your chameleon want to be in contact with you if every time you took him out of the cage, he had an unpleasant experience?

I'm not saying that

YouTube in general isn't the best (or most realistic) source of information I'm afraid! It largely comes down to luck whether you get a cham that will tolerate handling or not, and veileds are especially well known for being aggressive.

Hand feeding favorite treats is the easiest way to create a positive association, which may help make them more amenable to handling. I like to use small superworms and bsfl. My veiled girl generally wants nothing to do with me (particularly my hands), but if I'm holding a snack she'll run down my arm to get at it! From there, I'll handle her for a couple minutes, bring her outside/etc, and then put her back in her enclosure and offer her another treat. Generally, I'll do this once or twice a week pending my schedule, and otherwise make no attempt to handle either of my chams. Occasionally they'll surprise me and initiate contact on their own, particularly my female panther.

Your cham may never want to leave his enclosure, if he's happy with it. That's just part of owning chams. Start with hand feeding and go from there imo.

If I try to hand feed, he just hisses at me XD

 

[PabloTheCham]

Hey, @PabloTheCham

Looks like you're doing the right thing here getting all the help you can with all your questions. Better to ask instead of assuming things are right if you're unsure.

Mixing up the crickets diet is great as @Syreptyon mentioned. I use Repashy Bug Burger and add bee pollen to it as a gutload. If I use produce I dust it with Cricket Crack. Crickets go crazy for that.

What type of heat bulb are you using for your cham? Brand and wattage?

Also, I agree with the other member that was talking about branches. Your cham will be much happier with more branches. He'll also have more hiding spots. Some people don't like them, but I use the Exo-Terra jungle vine in combonation with real wood branches. I've never had a problem with them and they're like $4 on amazon. Sand blasted manzanita works well too. You can get that off LLL

Here's a great blog I read about building trust with your cham.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/

I'm adding some beams today. As for the wattage and brand, I have a T5 5.0 reptisun UVB, and a 75w intense basking spot. He has been puffing up with his mouth open and spots all over him for hours, so I moved his basking spot a few inches down just now, so i don't know his basking temps.

 

[robbh3]

i have an 8 month old male veiled and he has just started warming up to me. in the past i have been bit so many times and many of those bites drew blood. i have had him form 3 weeks of age and he is just beginning to tolerate me. He would also break out in black spots when i would have to remove him from his cage. i don't think it gets much better then "toleration". They can also be straight up "haters" too.

 

[GoodKarma19]

If I try to hand feed, he just hisses at me XD

This isn't a one day process, and with some chams it can take weeks or even months to really make a lot of progress. You'll likely need to try a number of times, and stay very still 15 minutes or so with the insect. Approach from below and make yourself shorter than the branch he's sitting on - it makes then more secure. Try not to make eye contact/look at him so much. Instead, look at the insect.

If he hisses if you're just coming close to him, try setting nearby within line of sight and doing something unrelated so he can get used to your presence.

There are other "taming" methods, but this is what has worked for me. I'm not big on handling, and don't push the issue if any of my animals don't wish to be handled.

 

[Ares05]

That's because every time you took it out of the cage, you were associated with a unpleasant experience. So why in the world would your chameleon want to be in contact with you if every time you took him out of the cage, he had an unpleasant experience?

I'm not saying that


If I try to hand feed, he just hisses at me XD

Precisely what I mean. Every time you force him out of his cage, that is a bad experience in itself, as said before on this thread.

 

[RyanBRZ]

It took my panther 5 months of daily hand feeding/hand exposure to finally come out of his cage. Be patient and hope for the best, but don't force it or you will prolong or totally prevent handling.

Patience pays off, my chameleon is now timid and very rarely shows any type of aggression. I recently had to 'forcefully' hold him every 3 days for a month so I could give him antibiotic injections in his arms and he took it like a champ every time.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I’ve had Coda for almost a year and she still despises me no matter how many times I hand fed her, it’s luck of the draw mostly.

Yeah
All 3 of mine clearly hate me

 

[The Wild One]

Yeah
All 3 of mine clearly hate me

Coda despises me with a passion