Cage misting makes floor too wet

[MrKian]

Hi, I have recently bought my first chameleons. I have 2 yemen chameleons, male and female. They are around 10-11 weeks old. I have a uvb basking light which is in from 7:30am to 7:30pm. Misting system which is on at 7am for 20 seconds and 8pm for 20 seconds. It turns on at 1pm for 10 seconds. I do not have a dripper. The misting does not go on for too long as it makes the whole cage wet and then the flooring I have gets too wet. I dont know if this is normal and just has to be changed often? Humidity during the day is 50-60% and temperature is 23-24 degrees and at night 20-21 with humidity at the same % and not sure how to increase it. The person I got it off said dont use the heat bulb as of yet as they cant regulate their temperature (when bulb is used temperature gets up to 29 degrees).

I feed them 2nd size crickets. I see the male eat sometimes but the female barely eats. They are both active and move around a lot (the male moves more) and the female is also shedding now since yesterday, still is in the process of shedding, not sure if it is normal for it to be this long. Please advise, if I am doing anything wrong please let me know.

 

[kinyonga]

Welcome to the forum and the world of chameleons!
Do you have them in the same cage?
Please post photos of them both and of the cage.

 

[ChamelaChameleon]

Yes, spraying makes the bottom of the cage very wet. I spray 2 times a day for 2 minutes each session. Most enclosures are set up with a drainage system. I use a rabbit cage tray to catch water. I drilled holes in the plastic cage floor. Placed the cage on a wire rack and placed the rabbit tray under the cage to catch the excess water. This allows the cage to dry between sprays. See pics below. I just finished a 2 minute spray and the fog will run for 8+ hours. I use a wet vac to remove water from the tray. Plants usually sit in the bottom. I removed them to give you a clear pic.

You can use the forums search bar for more awesome drainage ideas.

 

[MrKian]

Thank you guys for your reply. Yes they are both in the same cage. Photos attached. As you can see as well in the photo of them there is a cricket right above them but they are not eating it, I haven’t been handling them and they have been getting their UVA + UVB light so they shouldn’t be at the point where they are stressed/not have appetite as I’ve seen them eat before and don't want to eat unless I’m wrong?

Also the cage is in my room, so it’s not in a place with high traffic to cause stress on them too as I am hardly home and no one comes into my room. I have a camera in there and they do move around a lot during the day.

The rabbit cage tray seems like a good idea, so should I remove that carpet I have at the bottom? And I also have stuck a leaf background on the back, left and right to try and keep humidity in. So when fogging, when humidity increases that will put water droplets on all the leaves/branches for them to drink? I am also in the UK, London so its not dry or humid here.

 

[MrKian]

https://www.reptilecentre.com/produ...-substrate-bottom-tray?variant=43504897458392

If I purchase this, would that save me from buying the rabbit cage tray and drilling the bottom of my cage? What do you think.

 

[MissSkittles]

Hi, I have recently bought my first chameleons. I have 2 yemen chameleons, male and female. They are around 10-11 weeks old. I have a uvb basking light which is in from 7:30am to 7:30pm. Misting system which is on at 7am for 20 seconds and 8pm for 20 seconds. It turns on at 1pm for 10 seconds. I do not have a dripper. The misting does not go on for too long as it makes the whole cage wet and then the flooring I have gets too wet. I dont know if this is normal and just has to be changed often? Humidity during the day is 50-60% and temperature is 23-24 degrees and at night 20-21 with humidity at the same % and not sure how to increase it. The person I got it off said dont use the heat bulb as of yet as they cant regulate their temperature (when bulb is used temperature gets up to 29 degrees).

I feed them 2nd size crickets. I see the male eat sometimes but the female barely eats. They are both active and move around a lot (the male moves more) and the female is also shedding now since yesterday, still is in the process of shedding, not sure if it is normal for it to be this long. Please advise, if I am doing anything wrong please let me know.

Hi and welcome. The first thing is they need to be separated so they each have their own enclosure. Chameleons are not social animals and will become stressed even just being able to see another. With them being together, one will assert dominance and the other will fail, as you are seeing with the female not eating. The best way to help you get everything perfect for each of them is to review all of your husbandry. If you wish to do this, copy and paste the questions below with your answers and we can go thru it all and make suggestions for improvement where needed. For the most correct and current husbandry standards and a whole lot more, https://chameleonacademy.com/chameleon-husbandry-program-getting-started-with-chameleons/ Make sure to read thru all of the modules and the species specific section. Another great site is https://www.neptunethechameleon.com/ and she has tons of videos on just about everything.
Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - The species, sex, and age of your chameleon. How long has it been in your care?
• Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon?
• Feeding - What are you feeding your cham? What amount? What is the schedule? How are you gut-loading your feeders?
• Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule?
• Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use? How often and how long to you mist? Do you see your chameleon drinking?
• Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings. Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites?
• History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?) What are the dimensions?
• Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using? What is your daily lighting schedule?
• Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot)? Lowest overnight temp? How do you measure these temps?
• Humidity - What are your humidity levels? How are you creating and maintaining these levels? What do you use to measure humidity?
• Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind?
• Placement - Where is your cage located? Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas? At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor?
• Location - Where are you geographically located?

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.

--------------

Please Note:

1. The more details you provide the better and more accurate help you will receive.
2. Photos can be very helpful.

 

[MrKian]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I do not have much space in my room for 2 cages so I’m guessing best option would be to sell 1 of them?

• Your Chameleon - Yemen, 1x male + 1x female, both 10-11 weeks old. Has been in my care since 18th December 2023.
• Handling - Once every 2 days, try not to handle them at all.
• Feeding - Feeding them crickets, put around 10 in the cage but do not see them decrease. They get gut fed with the food they come with when purchasing and also “bug grub” and will give them cucumbers/carrots occasionally.
• Supplements - HabiStat calci shot, dusted every 2-3 days but when the crickets dont get eaten there is nothing for me to dust.
• Watering - Have a misting machine (link attached) spraying schedule, 7am for 20 seconds, 1pm for 10 seconds and 8pm for 20 seconds. Doesn’t spray a lot due to not having a drainage system. I see them drink 1 or 2 droplets from leaves everyday.
• Fecal Description - Doesnt come out dry, is moist and urate is yellowish. Just seen one today which is pure yellow/whiteish. Not sure from which one. Both never been tested for parasites.
• History - Owner said they only get fed crickets and fruit flies. Female is currently shedding, male isn’t shedding but more active.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed ReptiBreeze NT-11. Screened cage however I have put vinyl of leaves on the back, left and right to keep humidity in. Roof and door are meshed. Dimensions are 16in x 16in x 20in or 40cm x 40cm x 76cm.
• Lighting - ExoTerra Reptile UVB 100 25w. Lights on at 7:30am and off at 7:30pm. A timed plug is being used so always on the dot.
• Temperature - Basking spot ranges from 23-24 degrees. Floor is 22-23 (cannot make it lower). Lowest overnight temp is 20 degrees. Owner said only to use heat from basking light and not the heat bulb yet as they cannot regulate their temperature. I have a combined thermometer + hygrometer at the top and thermometer at the bottom.
• Humidity - Normally during the day is 50-60% and night time is the same (i know it should be more but do not have a way to increase it at night. Today humidity has been high during the day from 70-80% for some reason.
• Plants - 1 aloe Vera plant (not for the chameleons just there to take in light but also searched it is not harmful) and also 1 golden pothos.
• Placement - Located in my bedroom, no fans, no vents, windows closed, no traffic at all. Cage is on the floor and is 76cm tall.
• Location - London, UK.

 

[ChamelaChameleon]

Thank you guys for your reply. Yes they are both in the same cage. Photos attached. As you can see as well in the photo of them there is a cricket right above them but they are not eating it, I haven’t been handling them and they have been getting their UVA + UVB light so they shouldn’t be at the point where they are stressed/not have appetite as I’ve seen them eat before and don't want to eat unless I’m wrong?

Also the cage is in my room, so it’s not in a place with high traffic to cause stress on them too as I am hardly home and no one comes into my room. I have a camera in there and they do move around a lot during the day.

The rabbit cage tray seems like a good idea, so should I remove that carpet I have at the bottom? And I also have stuck a leaf background on the back, left and right to try and keep humidity in. So when fogging, when humidity increases that will put water droplets on all the leaves/branches for them to drink? I am also in the UK, London so its not dry or humid here.

I'm only speaking to the drainage. The substrate tray sits inside of the enclosure making it not helpful for drainage. Chameleons do not need substrate. It's best to have a bare floor unless you set up a bio-active environment. Even with a Bioactive environment you have to set up drainage.

Search the forum for other great drainage ideas. You can find other awesome drainage ideas. Since your husbandry review is completed, you should focus on make changes as suggested.

Good luck. The advice I received on this Forum saved my Chameleon's life.

 

[MissSkittles]

Give me a bit of time and I’ll go thru your husbandry.

 

[MissSkittles]

I tend to talk a lot, so will be splitting this into two sections.
Hi, thanks for your reply. I do not have much space in my room for 2 cages so I’m guessing best option would be to sell 1 of them? I’m afraid so. Each will be needing its own enclosure of at least 60x60x120 cm. Perhaps the person or place that you got them from will be willing to take one back.

• Your Chameleon - Yemen, 1x male + 1x female, both 10-11 weeks old. Has been in my care since 18th December 2023. That is quite young, and therefore fragile. It’s more important than ever to have the basics as perfect as possible for them since they have no resources to fall back upon.
• Handling - Once every 2 days, try not to handle them at all. Not handling is best. However, in time you will want to work on building trust with them. https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/building-trust-with-your-chameleon.2396/
• Feeding - Feeding them crickets, put around 10 in the cage but do not see them decrease. Being so very young, they should be given as much as they can eat in a 15-20 minute period. Making sure the insect feeders are small enough is important or they won’t/can’t eat. The rule is anything larger than the space between the eyes is too big. I always prefer to err on the safe side and give smaller feeders. Crickets are ok staples, but variety is best. In the US, some on line vendors sell variety packs of feeders, which are great if you have just one or two animals. Check with your on line vendors to see if they have the same. They get gut fed with the food they come with when purchasing Crickets basically poop out what they eat very quickly and also “bug grub” and will give them cucumbers/carrots occasionally. You don’t need to gut load in the true meaning of it, but keeping your insect feeders well fed keeps them healthy and more nutritious for your chameleon. While the orange cubes or a plain potato may keep the crickets alive for a few days, it doesn’t mean they are healthy. Attaching some graphics to help guide you.
• Supplements - HabiStat calci shot, dusted every 2-3 days but when the crickets dont get eaten there is nothing for me to dust. I had to look your calcium up and from what I can find, it looks to be a phosphorus free plain calcium without D3. This you’ll want to use lightly dusted on every feeding (except when using a different supplement). Your chameleons also need vitamin D3 and multivitamins. The easiest way to give these is to use a combination product. I like and suggest Repashy Calcium Plus LoD OR ReptiVite WITH D3 (There is a version without D3, so read the label). This you’ll use lightly dusted on one feeding every other week.
• Watering - Have a misting machine (link attached) link won’t open for me but it does say something about humidifier. Is this a mister as in it’s sprays or a fogger/humidifier? spraying schedule, 7am for 20 seconds, 1pm for 10 seconds and 8pm for 20 seconds. Doesn’t spray a lot due to not having a drainage system. The times which you are spraying is great, but you need to be doing it for at least two minutes. I see them drink 1 or 2 droplets from leaves everyday. This is a bit unusual since many chameleons are secretive drinkers. Either yours haven’t yet joined the great conspiracy or they aren’t getting enough to drink. We’ll help you with drainage options.
• Fecal Description - Doesnt come out dry, is moist and urate is yellowish. Yellow means they could be getting better hydrated. All white or with a bit of yellow on one end is perfect. Just seen one today which is pure yellow/whiteish. Not sure from which one. Both never been tested for parasites. It’s always best to have a parasite check.
• History - Owner said they only get fed crickets and fruit flies. Female is currently shedding, male isn’t shedding but more active. Babies shed like ‘poof’ and if you blink you could miss it. Not really that fast, but over just a couple of hours.
  More to come…..
  
• 
  

 

[MissSkittles]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed ReptiBreeze NT-11. Screened cage however I have put vinyl of leaves on the back, left and right to keep humidity in. Roof and door are meshed. Dimensions are 16in x 16in x 20in or 40cm x 40cm x 76cm. As I said at the start, each will be needing their own enclosure which is at least 60x60x120cm.
• Lighting - ExoTerra Reptile UVB 100 25w. Lights on at 7:30am and off at 7:30pm. A timed plug is being used so always on the dot. I’m afraid the screw in uvb isn’t adequate for chameleons. They need to have a linear T5 with either a ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. Then the uvb needs to be about 20-22cm above the basking branch.
• Temperature - Basking spot ranges from 23-24 degrees. While we do want it a bit cooler for babies and girls, this is a bit too cool. You want basking temp to be around 25-26c. Floor is 22-23 (cannot make it lower). Lowest overnight temp is 20 degrees. Perfect. You do want them to have a cool night of below 20. Veileds can handle temps to mid teens (although we try not to get them that cold) Owner said only to use heat from basking light and not the heat bulb yet as they cannot regulate their temperature. Not sure I understand this. The basking light is the heat light. Perhaps you/owner means the screw in uvb? For younger babies, this is true. Yours are old enough to have a little bit of added heat with a basking light. You do want to make sure to raise your lights off of the screen top by at least 7-10 cm. Baby chameleons really enjoy walking upside down on the screen top and by the time they feel the heat on their bellies, they are already badly burned. I use little wire baskets to raise my lights. Not pretty but it works and is inexpensive and easy. I have a combined thermometer + hygrometer at the top and thermometer at the bottom. Hopefully these are digital. The analog ones are notoriously inaccurate.
• Humidity - Normally during the day is 50-60% This is a bit high. You want between 30-50% during the day. At night since you have temps below 20, you can run a cool mist humidifier/fogger and boost humidity as high as it will go. That simulates the hydration chameleons get in the wild thru fog. and night time is the same (i know it should be more but do not have a way to increase it at night. Today humidity has been high during the day from 70-80% for some reason.
• Plants - 1 aloe Vera plant (not for the chamsleona just there to take in light but also searched it is not harmful) and also 1 golden pothos. Veileds like to nibble their plants, so it’s important to have only safe live plants. Move the artificial to the outside of the enclosure to provide extra privacy. I prefer having a tall center plant like a weeping fig, schefflera, etc and then pothos, tradescantia and others around it. Live plants will help maintain humidity and provide your cham with places to take shade from the lights.
• Placement - Located in my bedroom, no fans, no vents, windows closed, no traffic at all. Cage is on the floor and is 76cm tall. Height is safety, so you need to get the enclosure off the floor. If you buy a ReptiBreeze XL enclosure, there are stands available, which work well. I drill some holes in the floor of my enclosure, place a plant on top to guide the water drainage and then have a bucket directly below for drainage to collect. You do want to avoid using substrate (unless going truly bioactive). You can place the enclosure on/over a plastic storage bin sitting on a table or any number of things for drainage.
• Location - London, UK.

 

[Andrew1283]

Drilling a bunch of holes makes a mess. Just use a hole saw and put a bucket underneath. It drains clean and quick. Put a potted plant over the hole

 

[Mitcchar]

Does anyone know if you are able to drill a hole through a ReptiBreeze XL stand for drainage with a hole saw? I saw the description said something about stainless steel, but I didn’t know if this was for the bottom also?

 

[MissSkittles]

Does anyone know if you are able to drill a hole through a ReptiBreeze XL stand for drainage with a hole saw? I saw the description said something about stainless steel, but I didn’t know if this was for the bottom also?

There is no need. The way it is, the whole area where the enclosure sits is open with the exception of a thin bar in the center. The enclosure sits in a small ledge and that bar.

 

[Mitcchar]

Ok thanks

 

[Beman]

@MrKian you have already received thorough feedback from @MissSkittles please read through it and let us know if you have any questions.

 

[MrKian]

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - ZooMed ReptiBreeze NT-11. Screened cage however I have put vinyl of leaves on the back, left and right to keep humidity in. Roof and door are meshed. Dimensions are 16in x 16in x 20in or 40cm x 40cm x 76cm. As I said at the start, each will be needing their own enclosure which is at least 60x60x120cm.
• Lighting - ExoTerra Reptile UVB 100 25w. Lights on at 7:30am and off at 7:30pm. A timed plug is being used so always on the dot. I’m afraid the screw in uvb isn’t adequate for chameleons. They need to have a linear T5 with either a ReptiSun 5.0 or Arcadia 6% uvb bulb. Then the uvb needs to be about 20-22cm above the basking branch.
• Temperature - Basking spot ranges from 23-24 degrees. While we do want it a bit cooler for babies and girls, this is a bit too cool. You want basking temp to be around 25-26c. Floor is 22-23 (cannot make it lower). Lowest overnight temp is 20 degrees. Perfect. You do want them to have a cool night of below 20. Veileds can handle temps to mid teens (although we try not to get them that cold) Owner said only to use heat from basking light and not the heat bulb yet as they cannot regulate their temperature. Not sure I understand this. The basking light is the heat light. Perhaps you/owner means the screw in uvb? For younger babies, this is true. Yours are old enough to have a little bit of added heat with a basking light. You do want to make sure to raise your lights off of the screen top by at least 7-10 cm. Baby chameleons really enjoy walking upside down on the screen top and by the time they feel the heat on their bellies, they are already badly burned. I use little wire baskets to raise my lights. Not pretty but it works and is inexpensive and easy. I have a combined thermometer + hygrometer at the top and thermometer at the bottom. Hopefully these are digital. The analog ones are notoriously inaccurate.
• Humidity - Normally during the day is 50-60% This is a bit high. You want between 30-50% during the day. At night since you have temps below 20, you can run a cool mist humidifier/fogger and boost humidity as high as it will go. That simulates the hydration chameleons get in the wild thru fog. and night time is the same (i know it should be more but do not have a way to increase it at night. Today humidity has been high during the day from 70-80% for some reason.
• Plants - 1 aloe Vera plant (not for the chamsleona just there to take in light but also searched it is not harmful) and also 1 golden pothos. Veileds like to nibble their plants, so it’s important to have only safe live plants. Move the artificial to the outside of the enclosure to provide extra privacy. I prefer having a tall center plant like a weeping fig, schefflera, etc and then pothos, tradescantia and others around it. Live plants will help maintain humidity and provide your cham with places to take shade from the lights.
• Placement - Located in my bedroom, no fans, no vents, windows closed, no traffic at all. Cage is on the floor and is 76cm tall. Height is safety, so you need to get the enclosure off the floor. If you buy a ReptiBreeze XL enclosure, there are stands available, which work well. I drill some holes in the floor of my enclosure, place a plant on top to guide the water drainage and then have a bucket directly below for drainage to collect. You do want to avoid using substrate (unless going truly bioactive). You can place the enclosure on/over a plastic storage bin sitting on a table or any number of things for drainage.
• Location - London, UK.

Thank you for your reply. I guess I will sell one of them.

I will avoid handling them. The female one still hasn’t fully shedded, what do you think may be wrong? Should I help shed or let it happen naturally.

In regards to feeding, how can I feed them and check they are eating without feeding them directly? A lot of the time they do not eat when I am watching them.

The link I sent you is a mister, I want to turn it on for longer however due to no drainage system it is an issue and I need to sort this out as soon as.

They are currently using a normal screw bulb for basking, not a tube.

Arcadia - ProT5® UVB Forest - D3 6% UVB - 24 Watt - Includes Quality Electronics, Removable Reflector & A High Output T5 UVB Lamp - Easy to Fit & Use - Sleek Design https://amzn.eu/d/5CPRps9

Is this fine for them? And when I mentioned heating bulb, there is another bulb its because I have the ZooMed tropical UVB and heat lighting kit but never turn on the heating bulb.

The thermometer(s) + hygrometer are both digital.

I currently do not have a humidifier as its on the way, what do you suggest I do temporarily for night?

Thanks again for your help.

 

[MissSkittles]

Thank you for your reply. I guess I will sell one of them. I’m sorry that you don’t have the space.

I will avoid handling them. The female one still hasn’t fully shedded, what do you think may be wrong? I’m going to guess it’s a combination of everything. The sooner you split the two up, the better she’ll be able to get all that she needs and will do better. Should I help shed or let it happen naturally. Always let them shed naturally, unless the shed is constricting the circulation (to tail or foot). Chameleons are dry shedders, so there’s little to do to help anyhow.

In regards to feeding, how can I feed them and check they are eating without feeding them directly? A lot of the time they do not eat when I am watching them. Some chameleons will not eat if being watched. Since they are focusing both of their eyes on their food, they are vulnerable when eating. I would set up a feeding station which will contain their food a bit. It can be a plastic deli cup or you could buy one. I use the shooting gallery, but I’d guess shipping would be outrageous. I have made my own version of it from a plastic food container and a baby version from a plastic cat bowl. https://tkchameleons.com/products/shooting-gallery?variant=30018608595032 If you look on Etsy, there are a few different versions available and you can probably find a UK seller. However, regardless of any of that, until they are separated, one will get most of the food and the other will barely get enough. You could try putting two separate feeding stations on opposite sides of the enclosure to help make sure both have equal access to food.

The link I sent you is a mister, I want to turn it on for longer however due to no drainage system it is an issue and I need to sort this out as soon as. Right now with the smaller enclosure, drainage options are pretty simple. You could get a large shallow plastic bin, find something to elevate the enclosure a few inches (so it isn’t sitting in water and then you’ll just have to figure out how you’ll be emptying the water drainage. I don’t know how handy you are and what tools you have and are comfortable using. I’ve always kind of wanted to try to set up a drainage tray on a slight incline and have the drainage be channeled to pvc pipe and into a bucket. You can get as complicated or as simple as your imagination takes you. The most basic and simple is to get the ReptiBreeze substrate tray and have a small wet vac on hand. Honestly, I just have a substrate tray on a couple of mine and don’t even need to worry about excess drainage. What doesn’t drip into the many potted plants there are, is minimal and evaporates pretty quickly.

They are currently using a normal screw bulb for basking, not a tube. That’s not giving them any usable uvb and probably only minimal heat.

Arcadia - ProT5® UVB Forest - D3 6% UVB - 24 Watt - Includes Quality Electronics, Removable Reflector & A High Output T5 UVB Lamp - Easy to Fit & Use - Sleek Design https://amzn.eu/d/5CPRps9 YES! This is the uvb that is needed and asap.

Is this fine for them? And when I mentioned heating bulb, there is another bulb it’s because I have the ZooMed tropical UVB and heat lighting kit but never turn on the heating bulb. See what kind of temps the basking bulb gives. I’m going to guess it’s going to be really hot. Once you get the Arcadia ProT5 uvb, that may give off enough heat for your basking area to be around 78-80F.

The thermometer(s) + hygrometer are both digital. Perfect

I currently do not have a humidifier as its on the way, what do you suggest I do temporarily for night? I don’t even run one (can’t achieve low enough temps at night), so they’ll be ok without for now. Or, if you are able you could set your mister to give some extra mistings during the night.

Thanks again for your help. It’s my pleasure.