Cage size Debate (Kinda). Experts please read.

[KLowery88]

An interesting discussion. When I got my young Veiled Chameleon, he was about the size of my thumb and I set him up in a 24x24x48 cage right away. He used all of it and continues to do so, even towards the bottom, though he does prefer to stay at the top. Especially the past week or so after his last shed, he's been doing laps, up and down around the cage with baby display colors even though he's a few days shy of five months. Pretty sure his hormones are kicking in.

I agree with Eric about the greater ease of planting and furnishing a larger cage. I especially enjoy my current set up with a sink base that lets me plant the trees and foliage into the sink, which recesses them and gives more space for branches/vines.

I wonder if there is a difference between chameleons used to more space (like the WC mentioned above needing larger cages) and those raised in smaller cages. Or if it's just personality. There's a similar discussion going on in the Blue Tongue Skink community about the use of snake racks for breeding BTS and whether or not it's acceptable husbandry and gives them enough space.

 

[cyberlocc]

An interesting discussion. When I got my young Veiled Chameleon, he was about the size of my thumb and I set him up in a 24x24x48 cage right away. He used all of it and continues to do so, even towards the bottom, though he does prefer to stay at the top. Especially the past week or so after his last shed, he's been doing laps, up and down around the cage with baby display colors even though he's a few days shy of five months. Pretty sure his hormones are kicking in.

I agree with Eric about the greater ease of planting and furnishing a larger cage. I especially enjoy my current set up with a sink base that lets me plant the trees and foliage into the sink, which recesses them and gives more space for branches/vines.

I wonder if there is a difference between chameleons used to more space (like the WC mentioned above needing larger cages) and those raised in smaller cages. Or if it's just personality. There's a similar discussion going on in the Blue Tongue Skink community about the use of snake racks for breeding BTS and whether or not it's acceptable husbandry and gives them enough space.

Well IDK about skinks, but I definitely dont think snake racks are okay lol.

 

[cyberlocc]

So I am curious if anyone has ever done tests to this theory of 48 inches is better?

Like I said in the OP, The Kammers who are one of the best Panther breeders around use cages the size of Bills Medium wides.

I have been going around in circles over this whole thing lol. And am really just trying to give the best cage size possible, in my odd situation.

Then of course my OCD kicks in lol. So while the idea of a Male panther in a 30x17x30 and a the female beside in a 17x17x30, then we come to what about the other chams I plan to get? Montanes wouldn't need as much space for the males. And that would just throw my OCD all out of wack lol.

(On top of 2 custom cages being needed from Bill .)

 

[Andee]

Well I've noticed with Montanes if we are purely talking Jacksons that they use a lot of space for their size. If you want to keep the sizes of cage similair there would be no problem keeps the montanes in similair sized cage as the male/female panthers. They prowl just as much. The only reason I haven't switched Hope to a bigger cage is that she has the weakness in her muscles/bones and always will so she will always have the possibility of hurting herself more if she falls. IDK if I understood you right though. Also remember that montane babies seem to do best when in seperate glass enclosures.

 

[cyberlocc]

Well I've noticed with Montanes if we are purely talking Jacksons that they use a lot of space for their size. If you want to keep the sizes of cage similair there would be no problem keeps the montanes in similair sized cage as the male/female panthers. They prowl just as much. The only reason I haven't switched Hope to a bigger cage is that she has the weakness in her muscles/bones and always will so she will always have the possibility of hurting herself more if she falls. IDK if I understood you right though. Also remember that montane babies seem to do best when in seperate glass enclosures.

Oh ya I didnt mean Jacksons, I mean I would maybe keep a johnstoni or 2. But I was more referring to Quadricornis, Gracilis, O'Shaughnessy, ECT.

I am wanting to start breeding Panthers. However from there, Panthers have became way way to overpopulated and there is little point in breeding them IMO. More exotic Chameleons I feel would be easier to find good homes for.

My thoughts on baby caging (and all my caging) have shot back and forth in a few directions. As each have pros and cons. I have not really came to decision.

However that said, I have pretty much decided that either glass or PVC walled and doored cages for adults and babys will be the end result. Whether that will be Exoterras, or Dragon strands that are sealed up with Caulk, I have yet to decide.

And yes, I know "Glass" is a must, for Montanes. However it isnt so much of "Glass" as it is a solid enclosure that holds high humidity, the same can be achieved with Dragon strand breeders and some modifications.

 

[Andee]

Yes I agree with your last statement, solid enclosure. I think the way to get panthers sold is to make sure they are as friendly as possible when selling them to their new home. I mean I know each chameleon is an individual, but I would handle them on a regular basis as soon as they can be handled, so that you can advertise them as being handleable and maybe have a friendliness chart. Like 1-10 on handleability. It's what I'm going to do when I end up breeding Nosy-Mistios. If I do. I hope one day to breed, but I may just end up rescuing.

 

[JGuinan007]

I don't know why everyone says females don't need big cages. I have a female Veiled cham in a 2ftx2ftx4ft and when she is gravid and about to lay she running all over her cage and trying to get out every chance she can. I don't know that a 10ftx10ftx20ft would be big enough for her at that point.

 

[Andee]

Gorgeous cage JG, I think it depends on the cham. I also think it depends on what stage of development you cham is in. I know when Ryker was in his teenage years there was a lot of free ranging time. It would be hard to balance. I don't think certain chameleons, no matter how gorgeous their colors are, would be good breeders because of their personal needs. I know Ryker wouldn't because he desperately needs tons of space and he also hardly ever shows off. I think his sex drive doesn't exist lol.

 

[KLowery88]

Well IDK about skinks, but I definitely dont think snake racks are okay lol.

I'm not a fan of racks either, but if you have a lot of breeders, you're going to be using more efficient (smaller) caging to maximize space. That's pretty much what you're trying to do, find the sizes that best fit your space.

 

[cyberlocc]

View attachment 159875 I don't know why everyone says females don't need big cages. I have a female Veiled cham in a 2ftx2ftx4ft and when she is gravid and about to lay she running all over her cage and trying to get out every chance she can. I don't know that a 10ftx10ftx20ft would be big enough for her at that point.

Well females do that, no matter the cage size when its time to lay eggs they run the races trying to find a spot.

I'm not a fan of racks either, but if you have a lot of breeders, you're going to be using more efficient (smaller) caging to maximize space. That's pretty much what you're trying to do, find the sizes that best fit your space.

Very true, but I am doing so with still good amount of size. A snake rack with a largish bin from a small snake is one thing, but I see people putting huge snakes in small bins where they couldn't even uncoil lol.

As to the free range ideas, I was also considering this. If I kept smaller cages, and had a free range they could take turns in that would work?