Can see chameleon ribs and trouble shedding

[teinnow]

Cage Info:

* Cage Type - full mesh bout 3 feet high by 1.5 ft x 1.5ft
* Lighting - one heat and on uvb 5.0 repti sun i believe
* Temperature -bout 95 in basking to 70 on the floor, digitial thermometre
* Humidity - usaully around 50, mist several times and have some plants int he bottom
* Plants - i believe its liek a pothose or soemthing liek that? it was recommended to us by a chameleon breeder
* Placement - upstairs in a bedroom one vent in the room but hes on the other side, no drafts. bout 5 feet off the ground with the table hes on
* Location - calgary


Chameleon Info:

* Your Chameleon - veiled male hes about 8-9 months been in my care after about a month old i beleive
* Handling - i really try to pick him up daily or bi daily but he loves to hiss at me, i usally will have to use my hat or an oven mitt to help get him out, then hes fine
* Feeding - mosty adult crickets about 8-10 daily soemtimes super worms or wax worms
* Supplements - flukers. usaully around 10 in the morning i put the crickets in
* Watering - now he has had a waterfall untill about a week and a half ago and we switched to dripepers. he used to drink out of the waterfall, but ive never seen him drink from the dripper.
* Fecal Description -just an orange one a couple days ago, theres probibly been soem since then but i cant find it.never been tested
* History -he has been in perfect health till now
* Current Problem - well last week he fell, he never falls. today i found him on the ground at first i thought he was dead, but i got him to wake up, he seemed very weak i thought he had broken his leg or soemthign but he started to climb about 10minutes later. i noticed it looks as if his ribs are sticking out and the back half almost looks kinda caved in.he doid not look anything like that yesterday. he also hasnt gotten out of his shed yet which had been ongoing for probably a week maybe a tad longer, which i would think would be attributed to the water thing. i gave him a humid shower and he drank a lot while he was int here, he seems a bit better now but he still looks fairly skinny. yes i would take him to the vet, but thats an impossibility till at least friday. now the only thing ive changed, was the waterfall to driper, could this be the cause? it was falling onto the leaves of my plant.

 

[teinnow]

 

[Ulrich]

Hm... His body looks dented (which is a bit strange) in the pic but colors are fine. He is 90% shed. Sometimes tiny bits stay on for some time. Usually falls should not be an issue especially in captivity as heights are marginal. Where did he fall onto? Soil or hard surface?

 

[teinnow]

yes it seems dented, its on both sides, thats whats scaring me what could it be? i read that chameleons go on the floor and look for water to drink if really thirsty. im not even sure if he fell tbh he went asleep on his branch and when i woke up he was on the floor , and seemed like he was very very weak, hes currently with me and seems to have some better awareness, seems a bit stronger.

 

[Ulrich]

They have a split rip bone which can eithe inflate or deflate. That is not the issue. Falling is also not an issue unless repetitive. How is his overall performance? Eating? Drinking? Motion? Honestly he looks pretty fine to me except the dent. But maybe it is the super worms. Try to do dubia and locust and silk worms as super worms are hard to digest ( is the pic taken after feeding those?)

 

[teinnow]

heres a better pciture

 

[teinnow]

ive only witnessed a fall once. eating the last time i saw him eat, was probibly about 2-3days ago i fed him some super worms. as far as i know hes been eating crickets as they dont get up and walk away. his motion seems a lot better now, when i woke him up this morning, and i put my hand slowly inside, he hissed and actually fell over on his side, i was very distraught to see that.

 

[teinnow]

umm no this is about 2-3 days after about 3 days of super worms he probably ate a total of 5-6

 

[Ulrich]

Change your diet. He might have a hard time digesting the chitin. Roaches, crickets, silk worms, dubias and hoppers should be staple feeders.

 

[teinnow]

last picture, do you think he looks disproportional at all? and any idea what the dents might be calld? do you think superworms were the cause? i will defeinetly not feed him those anymore, we had run outta crickets and the pet store didnt have anything in and he didnt eat for a day so i wanted to make sure he had soemthing.

 

[Ulrich]

They love worms for sure as kids love candy. How long does he have shedding problems? Might need some help on this one.

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi! Retained shed is not usually a problem. If it were around a limb and the animal was young and growing it might cause a constriction problem, but for an adult, what he has there shouldn't be a cause for concern. I think your biggest concern right now is dehydration. You don't mention misting. Some chameleons need the stimulation of being rained on to get them to drink. I strongly recommend you mist the cage heavily (make it rain! Everything should be positively dripping!) at least 3 times a day, maybe more until you get him established drinking. Keep the dripper going all day, even when you are misting. You might even try dripping water directly on his nose. That will often cause them to start drinking.

I think you should make the appointment with the vet and try to get a fecal sample to bring in with you (if you can't don't panic, they'll often poop on the way to the vet's). I'm concerned that he might have picked something up from drinking out of the waterfall.

 

[Carlton]

yes it seems dented, its on both sides, thats whats scaring me what could it be? i read that chameleons go on the floor and look for water to drink if really thirsty. im not even sure if he fell tbh he went asleep on his branch and when i woke up he was on the floor , and seemed like he was very very weak, hes currently with me and seems to have some better awareness, seems a bit stronger.

The impression your photos give me is that he seems to have little muscle tone. He is not holding himself off the mitt but rather lying on it with head resting flat, he seems sort of "collapsed", and I think that's why you are seeing his ribs in that odd way. His legs look bowed too. Based on your husbandry info I'd say his nutrition is way off. Could you go in to more detail about your dusting schedule, the products you are using, and what you gutload his feeders with? How old is your ReptiSun light and are you sure that is what it is?

 

[teinnow]

dusting is usaully once or twice a week, and the crickets are gut loaded withfluckers high calcium cricket food i think. the light maybe 2 months old. as about the waterfall, just a coincedence that i switched him to the dripper and he got sick, or started showing symptoms rather?

the shed has been going for about a week or so.

his nutrition is off you say? were taking care fo these guys exactly as the breeder instructed us.

 

[Elizadolots]

Well, all you said was that you used "fluckers" and put the crickets in around 10...so, we're not clear on exactly what's going on.

Are you feeding the crickets? If so, what?

Are you dusting the crickets? If so, with what and how often?

 

[teinnow]

yes i dust the crickets with flukers once or twice a week as in only the 10 that i feed him. otherwise all crickets are being gut loadeed with flukers calcium food.

 

[Dr O]

Just about anyone here can help you with nutrition and husbandry, and point you towards the right articles that you need to read. I too agree that his legs look a bit bowed, his muscle tone does not look very good, and it appears that there may be some firm swelling around some of his joints. That would make most of us suspicious of metabolic bone disease. No matter what you read here, I urge you to please see a veterinarian, and consider that an xray may be invaluable for his future care.

Also, in terms of the "depression", I am wondering if he may have broken some of his ribs when he fell where the cartilage and bone come together, which would be particularly inevitable if he does have metabolic bone disease.

dr. o-

 

[Elizadolots]

oops..sorry...but what is it you are dusting with? "Fluckers" makes a lot of products.

This board recommends dusting with plain calcium, no D3, daily.

Dust with calcium with D3 2x per month.

Dust with a multivitamin 2x per month.

This board also really recommends gutloading with fresh veggies and fruits.

Sandrachameleon has a wonderful blog with vital information about what's healthy to feed your crickets and what's not.

https://www.chameleonforums.com/blogs/sandrachameleon/nutritional-information/

 

[Carlton]

dusting is usaully once or twice a week, and the crickets are gut loaded withfluckers high calcium cricket food i think. the light maybe 2 months old. as about the waterfall, just a coincedence that i switched him to the dripper and he got sick, or started showing symptoms rather?

the shed has been going for about a week or so.

his nutrition is off you say? were taking care fo these guys exactly as the breeder instructed us.

Our problem is, we don't know which "flukers" products you are using and it does matter. There are many different types and not all of us have access to the same types in different areas. Please give us the exact product NAME of the dusts you use (plain calcium, multivitamins, calcium with Vit.D3), and also the specific name of the gutload. Most mass produced gutloads are not all that great. There are much better ones available from this forum's classifieds. You will also need to feed your insects fresh dark leafy greens, chunks of fruit in addition to the commercial gutload.

It is always a good idea to write the date you started using a UV bulbs on the end of the tube so you remember to change it at 6 months. The light could be older than you remember, and the amount of UV they produce drops off a lot after 6 months.

I doubt the switch to a dripper made him sick, but if he's not drinking as much he could be getting dehydrated. Dehydrated chams won't eat much if any.

Where did you get him?

What's the humidity level in his cage and how do you measure it? In addition to drinking enough, a cham needs a higher level of humidity than most human rooms provide to stay hydrated.

 

[teinnow]

these are the foods, we also have a panther chameleon. she just recovered from a respiratory infection. why doesnt she have any of these symptoms? trust me our uv bulbs are less then 6 months, they burn out long before then. ive had this cham for about nine months and had no less hen 3 different bulbs.

i got him from a breeder at a pet store.

now if he did break anything, wouldnt he be in incredible amounts of pain, he seems to be moving pretty ok.unfortunetly mr. fred wont be able to make it to a vet till tommorow.