Candida??

[Revler]

Just got back from the vet w/ my female panther Yolie. She is a 2yr old Sambava and has been in very good health since I got her as a juvie. She is currently gravid so imagine my horror when I realized that one of her black spots wasn't just telling me to go away the spot on her back was actually pulling away from the skin!! I scooped her up and called in late to work so we could see the vet. The vet examined her and gently cleaned the area with Nolvasan and much to my shock an entire dime sized piece of her flesh came off during the clensing. There was whitish skin underneeth and she began to bleed! The vet then took the sample of skin and some gook that came out of it and when she returned she said that it looked like a candidal fungus infection with some bacteria feasting on the flesh as the candida broke it down. The room spun! She assured me that anyone could have missed it as Yolie's gravid colors are distinctly black and red but, I had no idea yeast could do that. She has perscribed daily showers, which I already do, a soft cleansing every other day, and Baytril for the bacteria along with a oral solution antifungal.

My question is this how long does it take for chams to heal open sores? It takes a week or so for my females after mating but, I've never had one have a wound this big. Has anyone had an issue like this before? What could have caused it? My vet said it was husbandry issues and I might do better to get her more natural sunlight. But, she has a 5.0 repti sun bulb I change all my bulbs every four months just to make sure. What husbandry issues cause yeast?? And, lastly, but centainly not least, what about her eggs? My vet said there is a medication they can give to start labor in chams and that it might be good to let her body not focus on making eggs and focus more on getting better. However, she also said they may or may not abort on their own. So, do I take the sure shot and have her abort the eggs medically so she can consentrate on healing or do let nature decide and risk stressing her out too much then God only knows what happens.

 

[dodolah]

what is the humidity and the misting schedule looked like?
Do you allow drying in between misting? how often you clean the cage?
sorry to hear about the fungal infection.

I do quite agree with your vet that sunlight is your best friend in this matter.
sunlight does help in killing bacteria and other microorganism.

 

[kinyonga]

Candida/fungal infections often results after the use of antibiotics, when the immune system is down or when conditions are damp. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

The sunlight should help a lot IMHO.

As for the eggs...I thought that oxytocin should only be used at the time when the eggs should be laid? Was she mated?

 

[Revler]

Yes she was mated twice to my Sambava male Horton. She began displaying gravid colors shortly after the second mating so we stopped the introductions and a little less than 3 short weeks later we can softly palapate eggs. I am conflicted because there is a good chance they could make it to term but, I know they are putting a drain on her system.

As far as misting goes I keep the humidity around 70-80% and mist four times a day she also has a cool humidifyer, I hope I spelled that right, which runs quite a bit and she makes her home in a screen reptarium. I remove poop and whatnot, dead cricket parts and droped leaves, twice a week throughly and I remove poop I see whenever I see it passing by. I wipe down the leaves of all the plants and vines fake and real with Eco-green cleaner once a month. Plus I forgot to mention she has a dripper, all my chams are on the same multiple nozzle drip system which releases a drop of water every fifteen to thirty seconds. All this water runs down into a combo drain system that Yolie shares with two of my other chams and I empty the trays three-four times a day.

As far as sunshine goes Yolie was out with Dr. Suess, each of them on their own respective ficuses this morning to watch the sunrise and catch some early morning rays. My husband has strict instructions to bring Yolie out on her ficus for at least an hour this afternoon while I am at work. He has to weed the back yard flower beds anyway so I figured Yolie could watch. If sunlight is what she needs she'll have all the bloomin' sunlight we can squeeze into the day!

The scab looks so awful this morning but, the area looks a great deal cleaner and at least now I can tell what's going on. A local reptile breeder I know and I were chatting on the phone last night and he suggested using a topical triple antibiotic as well as the regimin the vet suggested. Is this safe?

 

[Dave Weldon]

...I am conflicted because there is a good chance they could make it to term but, I know they are putting a drain on her system.

As far as misting goes I keep the humidity around 70-80% and mist four times a day she also has a cool humidifyer, I hope I spelled that right, which runs quite a bit and she makes her home in a screen reptarium.

...All this water runs down into a combo drain system that Yolie shares with two of my other chams and I empty the trays three-four times a day.

...she'll have all the bloomin' sunlight we can squeeze into the day!

The scab looks so awful this morning but, the area looks a great deal cleaner and at least now I can tell what's going on. A local reptile breeder I know and I were chatting on the phone last night and he suggested using a topical triple antibiotic as well as the regimin the vet suggested. Is this safe?

Howdy Nika,

I'd be more tempted to let her go to term with the eggs since there is also a risk with using the drug to induce egg laying.

Panthers do ok at 40% humidity so long as they are kept well-hydrated through drinking. If she is drinking on a regular basis, it might be better to let the humidity drop closer to 40% at least until this fungal problem is resolved. Misting 4 times a day and a humidifier plus a dripper may not be letting things dry out sufficiently to minimize the chances of fungal outbreaks . Having 2 misting sessions that are 10-15 minutes each will give your chameleons a chance to drink while letting things dry-out a bit more often.

I'd check with your vet about using the triple antibiotic.

It sounds like your drainage system takes a lot of attention since someone has to empty it 3-4 times a day. How about running a tube from the drain(s) pan to a 4-5 gallon bucket that gets emptied less often.

 

[lbesok]

I'm sorry to hear about your girl. Hopefully she will make a speedy recovery. Sunlight is sure to play as a positive factor throughout this event! Though I have never treated a fungal infection as you describe, I would assume that a topical antibiotic would do nothing but help heal it, and I'm surprised that this wasn't in the inventory of things you came home from the vet with.
Like dodolah says, I'd make sure their is plenty of time for the cage to dry out in between mistings and drippings
My experiences with oxytocin correlate with kinyongas. If you notice her having problems laying, THEN I would resort to the oxytocin.
You said she is about three weeks along? I hate to be the bearer of bad news but because of the antibiotic Baytril, if her body doesn't reabsorb the eggs (which it may be too late for, since she is so far along) the chances of getting healthy eggs are very slim. Even if she does lay them because of the drug the babies will be subject to sever deformities and other birth defects. The good news would be, if she is better, their should be no ill effects on the expected retained clutch. Good luck with her.

 

[kinyonga]

lbesok said..."because of the drug the babies will be subject to sever deformities and other birth defects"...how do you know this? (Not doubting...just wondering.)

I have used Flamazine for topical application. It should work for the fungus and the bacteria. You will need to get it from your vet though. What I like about it is that you don't have to worry about it ending up in the mouth or eye from what I understand. It was used on my turtle's neck where the skin would fold over the eye when the turtle retracted its head. Its also used for mouth rot in snakes.

As was said...with the eggs being three weeks along, she should be close to laying anyway. Laying them naturally shouldn't be any harder on her than using oxytocin on her...and if you are worried about the hatchlings, you can always get rid of the eggs.

 

[Revler]

Thanks Dave, and everybody, for the valuable info. Here I am plundering along trying to keep the humidity so high and I didn't know it could go that low and be ok. What a relief!! I always sit at work paranoid that my humidty level will drop too much while I'm away from my kiddos and here I didn't need to worry in point of fact it appears my over protectivness may have helped culture the candida infection in the first place.... You live you learn right? I just wish it hadn't been at Yolie's expense! As far as the bucket is concerned that is on the table of winter projects. We are stuck with the trays for now as that row of cham enclosures sits on a custom drainage table that was built by my hubby. As with all good intentions it didn't turn out quite like everybody expected and alas the trays are the only thing that would fit tucked away underneeth. However, as we live in a decidadly snowy area, my husband becomes trapped home with me during freetime in the winter haha and is required to build me things for all of my reptiles. Hopefully this winter one of those things will be a better drainage table for my females with upright panal board to seperate the reptariums so I can quit hanging towels all over the place.

But enough about my wish list, you guys are great, thanks for all the help.

p.s. - Thanks, k, for the tip about the topical antifungal combo I call my vet about it monday.

 

[Eric Adrignola]

Oxytocin... Inducing labor with drugs is going to cause severe, painful contractions - probably much more so than a normal "labor". An artificially induced labor is almost always much more stressful on the body than a natural one - for people AND animals.

The body changes during the last few (days or months, depending on species) to prepare for the process. Things relax, stretch, open up, etc. Those are biomechanical processes that take time for a reason - rush them, and stress is going to be the least of your problems.

Only for emergency use if all else fails. The least stressful thing to do for them is to leave them alone as much as possible.