Mredhorse
Member
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(i would hook ya up with a little starter cup)Avatar is only 2 of the 11 in a 90gal. (Pic taken 2 months ago)
Teaser pics
(shocked this topic hasn't been moved yet)
Carnivorous Plants in Chameleon Enclosures
- Thread starter AllFallDown
- Start date
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
(i would hook ya up with a little starter cup)Avatar is only 2 of the 11 in a 90gal. (Pic taken 2 months ago)
Teaser pics
(shocked this topic hasn't been moved yet)
Hey everyone,
My curiosity hit me as I started searching around the forum regarding carnivorous plants. As I have mentioned in other threads I am a long time avid carnivorous plant grower (I have somewhere between 150 and 200 varieties in my collection at my house right now plus I oversee a smaller public collection.
I found the following thread where the topic was raised and briefly discussed:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/how-come-nobody-uses-carnivorous-plants-73591/
rather than resurrect an old thread I thought I would do the more socially acceptable thing and start a new thread. I am curious to know if anyone out there does put carnivorous plants in their enclosures. If so what do you keep in there? Have you had problems?
I have my thoughts on the matter too but thought I would see what others have to say first.
*By the way: if there are any other CP collectors on here, I like tradin
I dropped a good chunk of money into CPs and bought ~10 a few months ago (supposedly highland Nepenthes that can be raised as houseplants).....
over the 3 months, 7 have died, 2 are slowly wilting and 1 has shown <1inch of growth.....no matter what I do, they seem to die....
could use any advice on them.
I have so far tried:
-humidity dome + 50% orchid/50% sphagnum in a 3" hydroponic basket (this was the only result where they didn't die, although there was still no growth)
-same setup, no humidity dome (they die FAST)
-mounted epiphytically using a large chunk of sphagnum with some orchid bark in the center: not dieing, not growing....very slowly wilting
-using all sphagnum, using hydroton, using perlite.....none seem to matter
-temps have varied from mid 70s to high 80s....doesnt seem to matter
-No ferts given; "standard" ferts given (i know this is bad); CP "acidic" ferts given....none seem to matter
really can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.... I am down to 2 dieing and 1 healthy but nongrowing plant now...
I purposely avoided sarracenia and flytraps because of winter dormancy issues
AllFallDown
New Member
I dropped a good chunk of money into CPs and bought ~10 a few months ago (supposedly highland Nepenthes that can be raised as houseplants).....
over the 3 months, 7 have died, 2 are slowly wilting and 1 has shown <1inch of growth.....no matter what I do, they seem to die....
could use any advice on them.
I have so far tried:
-humidity dome + 50% orchid/50% sphagnum in a 3" hydroponic basket (this was the only result where they didn't die, although there was still no growth)
-same setup, no humidity dome (they die FAST)
-mounted epiphytically using a large chunk of sphagnum with some orchid bark in the center: not dieing, not growing....very slowly wilting
-using all sphagnum, using hydroton, using perlite.....none seem to matter
-temps have varied from mid 70s to high 80s....doesnt seem to matter
-No ferts given; "standard" ferts given (i know this is bad); CP "acidic" ferts given....none seem to matter
really can't figure out what I'm doing wrong.... I am down to 2 dieing and 1 healthy but nongrowing plant now...
I purposely avoided sarracenia and flytraps because of winter dormancy issues
Do you know what you have (specieswise)? What did they do before they died off?
If you have pictures I can take a look (of the remaining plants).
By the way, you are not alone on that. We all have the "bought lots of plants and most died off" story. With nepenthes its kind of a right of passage.
"I purposely avoided sarracenia and flytraps because of winter dormancy issues"
Sarracenias are one of the easiest to grow. If you are starting out and want to avoid dormancy issues, get a Drosera capensis. They are practically weeds.
AllFallDown
New Member
Not sure about other chameleons, but my Veileds love veggies and when I tried some Sundew and Neps. They were eaten within a few hours so the only plants I keep with them are ones that are intended for food.
few of my plant babies..
Very nice!
Is that darlingtonia from seed?
I did not used to like pings, I have started to like them more. I got a few several months ago when I went up to California Carnivores.
AllFallDown
New Member
Alright, I said I would post pictures. I have not forgotten but have not had a chance to run around with the camera yet. Tomorrow for sure.
AllFallDown
New Member
I know a fair amount about carnivorous plants (at least how to grow them), but not so much about how they would affect chameleons if ingested.
I think that is probably the challenge with carnivorous plants. If one wanted to put some in a cham cage, its hard to know if they could hurt them.
By acidic do you mean the fluids they produce? I don't think any produce an actual acid, it is more like digestive enzymes(IE proteins) which dissolve bugs. With pings in particular, such enzymes are only released after a bug has been trapped. They fluid on their surface prior to that is more like a glue.
I cant think of any with thorns. There are a handful of nepenthes with "toothed peristomes" that have sharp edges pointing down into the pitcher, cephalotus does as well. It would be hard for an animal to hit these though. And most of those are plants I would never put in a chameleon cage anyway. (google search "cephalotus", "nepenthes hamata", "nepenthes bicalcarata" for some examples)
Personally, I would be very hesitant to put most carnivorous plants in there. I am not so worried about physical danger to the chameleon (due to the trapping mechanism), I would be more concerned about him eatting something and getting sick. Also, I would prefer not to have my plants eaten. Last, regarding whether they would thrive in there. Most would not likely, but some would. I would be most concerned with light level. Most CPs want full sun amounts of light. A few can do with less. Most highland nepenthes, I doubt would do well on account of the heat- unless the night temps were allowed to drop quite a bit at night.
chameleoman
Avid Member
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
starter cup of what?
AllFallDown
New Member
By the way, in case anyone who is following this thread is waiting for the pictures I promised, I started a new thread here:
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pictures-my-carnivorous-plants-warning-over-20-photos-83138/
I also took a few more- some Sarracenias and Venus Flytraps. I will post them in a little bit when I have a chance to sit down and crop them. (My camera is 18MP, can't post them without some rescaling).
https://www.chameleonforums.com/pictures-my-carnivorous-plants-warning-over-20-photos-83138/
I also took a few more- some Sarracenias and Venus Flytraps. I will post them in a little bit when I have a chance to sit down and crop them. (My camera is 18MP, can't post them without some rescaling).
lifeguard
New Member
I know this is an old post and please forgive me for pulling up an old one but I was interested and curious. I just joined the forum today. I have been growing nepenthes alata for a while. Those don't really need much light and mine have been growing pitchers in 38% humidity. which is lower than what is in the cham enclosure. I also took around 10 cuttings and had 9 survive and start growing. Any chance these would work?
kekulpac
New Member
I love carnivorous plants. My favorite is pitcher plants. But carnivorous plants are one of the few type plants I can't keep alive.
There are two catagories of Nepenthes (pitcher plants) Highland and lowland. Highland plants tolerate cooler temperatures and are easier to grow in the states.
Good loose soil like sphagum moss and peat mix with some bark chips. Keep the soil moist and only use rain or distilled water, The salts in tap water will kill the plants. The like a 50/50 sun shade mix. Too much time in the sun will burn them. Also don't use commercial fertilizers. If you have to feed them, use a watered down fertilizer normally used for orchids. Also don't let them get colder than 50 degrees F.
I grow native and tropical pitcher plants as a hobby. I have two in my chameleon's enclosure. Let me know if you need more info...
kekulpac
New Member
Keep the fly trap immersed in rain or distilled water. Tap water will kill them.
At the end of the year, they NEED TO FREEZE. Most people think they are tropical and should stay in a terrarium all year, this will make them weak and die. They are native to areas that do freeze. I keep mine out side here in Ohio. They freeze and look dead but come back stronger and larger each year.
If you don't live in a climate that freezes, then put them in the fridge over the winter months
kekulpac
New Member
somerandomband
Member
I wouldn't put my carnivores in with my chams. the only safe ones would be sarracenia purpurea, a heliamphora, or a sarracenia hybrid that has an open hood. The reason being is that sarracenia purpurea have an open hood that is used to collect rainwater and bacteria that break down bugs. Most carnivorous plants with an open hood have adapted to use bacteria to break down their prey instead of digestive fluids. Other types such as nepenthes would be okay if it were a younger plant. I don't think a chameleon would be stupid enough to crawl into a nepenthes pitcher and even then, its digestive fluids may not be strong enough to hurt it, but I wouldn't take that chance. Sarracenia they could fall into also but aren't very sturdy and would fall over and break. flytraps may die around them, but would catch all of the unwanted bugs, just like sundews. sundews, sarracenia, and flytraps need a TON of light. Like 8 inches away from a t5. (Actually less for a sarr.) So they would die quickly. Your best bet would be a young nepenthes. You could train it's vines around the chams climbing vines as they like to solidify where they grow. They are happy with shade and sunburn easily. Darlingtonia are too fragile and would be a bad match as well as cephalotus.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Super old thread bump dude. But while we're at it, I keep nepenthes in mine with great success. You're more at risk of killing the plants than hurting the cham in 99% of cases. My sundews grow so easily, they flowered and spread everywhere. Even have some mini ones popping up in my cham enclosure now. My flytraps never caught any amount of bugs close to my nepenthes, sundews, and butterworts. Overall, most carnivorous plants wouldn't fit in well with how chameleons are kept though.
somerandomband
Member
I agree with this completely . I have 44 carniovorous plants and I'd be worried about them dying cause they're so special. My sundews never stop flowering > .>
The way neps. Are vining plants could be fun and their light requirements are shade so I could see this being fine. Also considering how many species of cps live in madagascar alongside chameleons already, I think it could be great. I'd be worried about the nep. Getting too much water. They throw a fit and kill off their pitchers if they get too much water or even if you move them.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Interesting, I'm not extremely experienced with carnivs, but have a solid foundation. I keep like 6-7 species or something. Aren't most carnivorous plants(fly traps I know are) from the US? Do you know of any readily available Madagascan species? My nepenthes are extremely forgiving, I have a few on the windowsill that I water like once a week and sometimes allow them to sit in a tray of water for a day or so. My nepenthes in my enclosure has 2 jungledawn 40w megaspotts and some bright t8 LEDS about 10" away. Along with 4 mist nozzles right above it that mist about an hour a day. Very high humidity and everything gets soaked. It has grown a ton in just the last 2 months. I may have just been lucky in adding a species that appreciates that though.
somerandomband
Member
There's a possibility it's a simple and forgiving nepenthes species such as a sanguinea, Miranda or a ventricosa. These are known as "starter nepenthes" cause they dont throw too many fits.
Oops. Only some come from madagascar. Most of them are from Borneo. This shows you what kinds come from where. Specifically neps.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nepenthes_species_by_distribution
Sundews are known from Africa 'cape sundew' (most common) but you can find sundew in many states in the U.S. as well as sarracenia. Darlingtonia are a special plant that only grows along the Oregon and Californian border with some minor exceptions. (Here's my dorky self in my home state with a natural site of them and my own little pot ).
I don't know a whole lot about pings except they're from Mexico mainly and act like a succulent. Cephalotus in endemic to I my Australia and have an adorable growth pattern.
Heliamphora are WICKED COOL and only come from a mountaintop in South America (known as the marsh pitcher plant) I don't know much about the water wheel plant, or bladderworts in General though. ....... I could go on and on so I'll end it here. If you have questions about cps, I'm an avid keeper of them.
Also with the lighting you have on your nep in the chameleon cage should be perfect for it. It isn't strong enough to sunburn it. Some neps like misting also but most dont.
Oops. Only some come from madagascar. Most of them are from Borneo. This shows you what kinds come from where. Specifically neps.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nepenthes_species_by_distribution
Sundews are known from Africa 'cape sundew' (most common) but you can find sundew in many states in the U.S. as well as sarracenia. Darlingtonia are a special plant that only grows along the Oregon and Californian border with some minor exceptions. (Here's my dorky self in my home state with a natural site of them and my own little pot ).
Heliamphora are WICKED COOL and only come from a mountaintop in South America (known as the marsh pitcher plant) I don't know much about the water wheel plant, or bladderworts in General though. ....... I could go on and on so I'll end it here. If you have questions about cps, I'm an avid keeper of them.
Also with the lighting you have on your nep in the chameleon cage should be perfect for it. It isn't strong enough to sunburn it. Some neps like misting also but most dont.
jamest0o0
Chameleon Enthusiast
Makes sense. I love carnivorous plants, but devote more time to my cham enclosures. I'm sure I'll have questions in the future, hah I always do. I've only kept them for a few months over a year now.
I have my sundews in bright hot sun during summer and they do well. I know they are just the simple cape sundews. I stupidly threw out the labels for my nepenthes, I have a few. I wanted highlands for my Parsons enclosure to fit in with the brumation period(hopefully at least). Though I think I have lowlands too and I couldn't remember which is which. Here's some pictures
I have a couple more including sarracenia, but that's what I found on my phone.
I have my sundews in bright hot sun during summer and they do well. I know they are just the simple cape sundews. I stupidly threw out the labels for my nepenthes, I have a few. I wanted highlands for my Parsons enclosure to fit in with the brumation period(hopefully at least). Though I think I have lowlands too and I couldn't remember which is which. Here's some pictures
I have a couple more including sarracenia, but that's what I found on my phone.
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somerandomband
Member
One of them looks like an n. aristolochioides x maxima and the other looks like it could be an n. Alata possible hyrbid. I'm guessing the one on the right is harder to care for?
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