Carpet Chameleon (Furcifer Lateralis) Advice on temporay setup & questions about future care

[thisnebula]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Carpet Chameleon (Furcifer Lateralis) WC Male named Norman, apporx. 9 months old in my care now for apporx. 1 month
• Handling - I’ve done my best to avoid handling by choice, however its been 2-3 times this month. This has been when he has wandered out/attempted to leave when the doors have been open and climbed on my hands.
• Feeding - He seems to only want crickets, though has eaten fruit flies, soldier fly larvae and waxworms on occasion. I’ve offered an assortment of feeders. He doesn’t seem overly interested in food. I have a cricket climber where I place 5 or so crickets swapping or adding to it each day depending on its status (eaten, escaped etc.) Along with a wall mounted feeding dish where I’ll put 1-2 assorted worms - checked daily, removing, adding or changing depending on status. Feeders are usually gut loaded with carrots by me and the food supplied with them by the place I order from (Port Credit Pets - for those in the GTA)
• Supplements - I’ve been using Repti Calcium W/O D3 on most feeders and Repashy Calcium Plus once every 1-2 weeks.
• Watering - I use various techniques. If I’m doing it manually I use a wash bottle to drip/form a stream offered 2 times a day. He usually drinks a little then. I do manual misting if needed with a hand mister 2-3 times a day (At lights on and as they are going off, typically. I have alot of automation set up to handle much of it or the rest if need be). I have an Exo Terra Dripper plant as well. He will drink from that and off leaves that I've seen on occasion.
• Fecal Description - Medium brown with a white section. Usually has a relatively firm consistency while wet. Looks like what I've seen to be considered "normal". I’ve NOT yet had him tested. As a side: I haven’t decided on vet/gotten appointment. Though in all honesty, I’ve been nervous stressing him out too much early on driving him around etc. I spoke to Campus Estates Animal Hospital Guelph & Burloak Animal Hospital
• History - When I got him he had a small (tiny) piece of shed that soon came off. He shed again completely yesterday (4 weeks almost to the day from getting him). Personal history, this is my first Cham - otherwise I've been keeping reptiles for 15ish years: currently with a Leopard Gecko (10yr), Emerald Tree Boa (11yr) and Ridgetail (Ackie) Monitor (13yr) confident with them, a little nervous with this little guy.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Currently in a temporary setup while I finish constructing his forever home. Exo Terra (Glass) 18x18x24 (moving into an Exo Terra (Glass) 18x18x36)
• Lighting-
  • Current setup in temporary enclosure:
    • 2x Exo Terra Terrasky LED bars (front & back of the top)
    • 2x 12” Sunblaster T5HO fixtures with ZooMed ReptiSun 5.0 T5HO liner bulbs (across the middle and diagonal from center to back left corner) (I made 3D printed rises at various heights and have them to give good distance from the different locations in the enclosure - the best I can without a solarmeter)
    • 1x Exo Terra 8” dome with a 40w frosted incandescent
• Lights are on on a 12 hour cycle. LEDs come one with the Incandescent ramping up for 30 mins when the UVs come on. UV off and ramping down for 30 mins at night.
• Temperature-
  • Current setup in temporary enclosure:
  • Set up currently are 3 probe therm/hydro stats and 3 Aqara HomeKit therm/hydro stats.
    • Probe #1: (Exo Terra approx. 6-8 inchs from ceiling center front) around 23-25c (73f-77f) DAY and 17c-19c (62f-66f) NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 6 inch above floor in cover) around 19c-22c (66f-72f) DAY and 16c-18c (61f-64f) NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 3 inchs from ceiling under heat lamp) around 25c-30c (77f-86f) DAY and 17c-19c (62f-66f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #1: (approx 8 inchs from floor on left wall) around 19c-20c (66-68f) DAY and 16c (61f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #2: (approx 2 inchs from ceiling on right wall) around 24c (75f) DAY and 17c (62f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #3: (approx 10 inchs from ceiling mount in central cover) around 22c-23c (72f-73f) DAY and 18c (64f) NIGHT
• The Aqara #2 sensor at the top is programmed to adjust heat lamp strength during the day. If it goes above 25c reducing intensity to 50%-80% and turning the fans on depending on temps as well as bringing it back up if temp goes below 24c
• Humidity-
  • Same 3 probe therm/hydro stats and 3 Aqara HomeKit therm/hydro stats.
    • Probe #1: (Exo Terra approx. 6-8 inchs from ceiling center front) I think is damaged 25%-50% DAY and 50%-70% NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 6 inch above floor in cover) around 80%-90% DAY and 99% NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 3 inchs from ceiling under heat lamp) around 45%-60% DAY and 80%-99%NIGHT
  • Aqara #1: (approx 8 inchs from floor on left wall) around 65%-75%DAY and 80%-90% NIGHT
  • Aqara #2: (approx 2 inchs from ceiling on right wall) around 50%-60% DAY and 85% NIGHT
  • Aqara #3: (approx 10 inchs from ceiling mount in central cover) around 90% DAY and 99% NIGHT
• The Aqara #2 sensor at the top is programmed to adjust humidity during the day. If it goes below 50% turning Monsoon on for 1 minute. During the night Aqara #2 sensor will turn the ReptiFogger on if sensor drops below 85% and turn it off when it goes to 90%
• Plants - Yes, my “Hero Plant” is a Ficus Benjamina (lime) in the center, a quite small Ficus Benjamina (white) on the left side front. Along with 4-5 air plants are diagonally placed inward at the doors to add cover
• Placement - The enclosure is in my bedroom connected office on an IKEA “Kallax” shelf with a top ( 32” high). I have window AC unit that keeps the room around 22c-23c (71f-73f) during the day and 20c (68f) at night this is about 10-12 feet away. Its usually just me in my office area. I have a ground air purifier that I like to have on from time to time about 5 feet away. Enclosure top is at 56 inchs from the ground. Again, this is his temporary space though the 36” will go beside it possibly with a riser if suggested
• Location - Im located in the GTA in Ontario, Canada

Current Problem -

This is my first Cham after lots of research. I’m could simply be being an over concerned new Cham keeper, though there are few things I'd love more info on, suggestions with or what I can do better for my little one!

• I’m a little concerned about his eating (not seeming overly interested anyway). Whats better gut loading? Does my supplementation need to change it up at all?
• How are my lights? I want to make sure my lights(UV), temps (too cold?) and humidity (too wet? too dry?) are right and how to better improve/dial them in. I also want to be certain I'm testing everything for the new enclosure so that when it’s finished, it will be great for him.
• He tends to be on the darker side often. Just his usual colours? Too cold, possibly stressed etc?
• Any suggests for the vet/vet trip (I had the wonderful recommendation for Guelph from a kind, knowledgeable and overal awesome keeper on here - any concerns with taking him/best way to transport him and collect feral sample? Its about a 1-1.5 hour drive for me. Anyone in this area ever had an experience with Burloak?
• He usually stays at near the top, when not on an adventure, though sometimes climbs down to the center doors and paws at the glass like he wants out. It freaked me out at first but he usually stops after a couple mins and wanders away?
• Any other helpful suggestions, tips or glaring oversights on my part?

I appreciate any and all feedback both for his temporary home and the new one that I’m working on. I want to create the best environment I can for him as possible. Thank you so much for your time, care and wisdom! Any help means alot to me!

 

[Beman]

Hey there welcome to the forum. I can not give you much help with the chameleon since I am not well versed in this species. I have edited your thread title to include the species so members with experience will see it.

See this site. https://www.livingartbyfrankpayne.com/care-sheets Frank Payne is a very well known breeder for this species. And he has a care sheet and other info there. I believe he did a few chameleon podcasts as well with Bill Strand. https://chameleonacademy.com/podcasts/ Search these for the species or Frank's name.

The stuff I can help you with....

2x 12” Sunblaster T5HO fixtures with ZooMed ReptiSun 5.0 T5HO liner bulbs (across the middle and diagonal from center to back left corner) (I made 3D printed rises at various heights and have them to give good distance from the different locations in the enclosure - the best I can without a solarmeter)

2 of these on your cage is overkill in my opinion. Even with large enclosures we only run one UVB. With a 5.0 bulb in a t5ho fixture you want a total of 8-9 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the branches below. This will put the cham in an approximate 3 uvi.

I’m a little concerned about his eating (not seeming overly interested anyway).

Your crickets look a little on the large size. I would reduce down to small sized crickets. Load up that feeder so the cham sees a ton of movement. Do this for a few days until you see the cham eating. But size will matter if they are too large they will back off. And the feeder run may be new to it. So this is why you load it up with a dozen or two feeders so its enticing.

See gutload image below.

 

[thisnebula]

Hey there welcome to the forum. I can not give you much help with the chameleon since I am not well versed in this species. I have edited your thread title to include the species so members with experience will see it.

See this site. https://www.livingartbyfrankpayne.com/care-sheets Frank Payne is a very well known breeder for this species. And he has a care sheet and other info there. I believe he did a few chameleon podcasts as well with Bill Strand. https://chameleonacademy.com/podcasts/ Search these for the species or Frank's name.

The stuff I can help you with....


2 of these on your cage is overkill in my opinion. Even with large enclosures we only run one UVB. With a 5.0 bulb in a t5ho fixture you want a total of 8-9 inches from the bottom of the fixture to the branches below. This will put the cham in an approximate 3 uvi.

Your crickets look a little on the large size. I would reduce down to small sized crickets. Load up that feeder so the cham sees a ton of movement. Do this for a few days until you see the cham eating. But size will matter if they are too large they will back off. And the feeder run may be new to it. So this is why you load it up with a dozen or two feeders so its enticing.

See gutload image below.

Thank you so much for the welcome and your response! I appreciate the title edit as well!

Both such good resoruces! I had been looking at them, listening and reading quite a bit before I got this little one. I see the info changed a bit over time so Ive been doing my best to figure out something that fits within their expertise.

Ah, ok yeah, I was a little concerned that 2 might be a bit overkill. I have noticed that it's usually only one per. I had an Exo Terra T8 liniar which had 2 bulbs - I know its probably marketing for them to sell more in the past, thought I thought 2 being 12" on the 18" foot print might just cover more of my bases. I'll go down to 1 and raise it up more to get more into that sweet spot. I've been looking into getting a solarmeter - alot more challanging with out one!

Good call on the crickets as well, I'll go smaller and see how that goes when I load up the feeder. It makes quite a bit of sense, thank you a ton! I think I ordered 1/2 inch crickets last time. Ill pick through for the absolute smallest, I'll gather up the fruits and veggies to make a gut load and then go smaller going forward!

I appreciate your knowledge and advices! Thank you!

 

[Beman]

Thank you so much for the welcome and your response! I appreciate the title edit as well!

Both such good resoruces! I had been looking at them, listening and reading quite a bit before I got this little one. I see the info changed a bit over time so Ive been doing my best to figure out something that fits within their expertise.

Ah, ok yeah, I was a little concerned that 2 might be a bit overkill. I have noticed that it's usually only one per. I had an Exo Terra T8 liniar which had 2 bulbs - I know its probably marketing for them to sell more in the past, thought I thought 2 being 12" on the 18" foot print might just cover more of my bases. I'll go down to 1 and raise it up more to get more into that sweet spot. I've been looking into getting a solarmeter - alot more challanging with out one!

Good call on the crickets as well, I'll go smaller and see how that goes when I load up the feeder. It makes quite a bit of sense, thank you a ton! I think I ordered 1/2 inch crickets last time. Ill pick through for the absolute smallest, I'll gather up the fruits and veggies to make a gut load and then go smaller going forward!

I appreciate your knowledge and advices! Thank you!

Your welcome. Yeah 1 uvb light will be just fine. Solarmeter 6.5 is worth the money just for the peace of mind.

Crickets try 1/4 inch size or as close to that. Typically they will learn to use a feeder run within a matter of days if you load the thing up lol. They just can't resist the movement of all the bugs.

@Mendez @javadi are both familiar with this species. I have tagged them here although both of them are quite busy and do not check in every day. So you may need to wait a few days for specifics from them.

The only note I have is on the repashy calcium plus. Typically we recommend the LoD version of that one. It has a jacksons chameleon on the label. Also for most species it is to be used no more than 2 times a month. I am not sure if carpets need it only once a month though. So hopefully the other members can give you more detailed info on the supplements, temps, humidity aspects.

 

[elizaann2]

Just wanted to jump in here and say hello and welcome

 

[javadi]

Most of the questions have been answered appropriately and well by other members

Supplements can be the same as for something like a panther. Nothing too special for lats. It is better to go with less supplement vs. oversupplementing though. In part because giving too much might exacerbate dehydration, which is a major problem for wild caught chameleons in particular. So just make sure the feeders are not caked with supplements. You can also let lateralis get cooler at night. 68 is OK but don't be afraid to let the temperature drop to 60 or even 55 at night.

As far as vet visits, he probably has some kind of parasite, although it might not be a big deal and might not make a difference. Still good to know however. For collecting poop for a sample be sure to get the brown part, the white part isn't very helpful. Collect it as soon as possible and keep it in a closed ziplock bag in the refrigerator if possible, but it will be OK in room temperature for a while if need be. You can use a plastic spoon or something similar to scoop it. There are some options here in the US for you to just mail the fecal sample to the vet office for them to run, not sure if that is possible in Canada. But ideally you would just bring the sample to the vet after calling ahead and making sure they will run it. Since the poop is small, I'd recommend collecting as much as possible. Remember, if the test is negative, it doesn't 100% prove there are no parasites. Obviously if it is positive though, there is no doubt there is something there. A small amount of parasites might not require treatment, but particularly nasty species or a whole lot of a less harmful species might. Worth involving the vet in that discussion.

The advice to offer small feeders is very good, especially since the animal is wc. Wild caught chameleons tend to naturally gravitate towards smaller prey items in my experience. You can even offer things like fruit flies if you would really like to see him eating more. 1/4" crickets are great though. You can try some small worms like tiny waxworms or hornworms if available, as it looks like he might be a tad underweight and these can help put weight on. Do keep in mind that wild caughts sometimes don't really recognize worms as prey items though, so rejection of the prey item is a risk.

Wild caught chameleons, especially lateralis, are a gamble. They sometimes act weird so I'm not sure I'd worry much about him being up near the top sometimes and then crawling elsewhere later on. Do keep in mind that they don't live all that long, especially as wild caughts. If he starts to crash, it might have had nothing to do with you or the care you have provided. With that said, he looks quite good and I hope he lives a long time and does great for you moving forward! You're doing everything right as far as asking questions and doing your best for him

 

[MikeyBen]

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Carpet Chameleon (Furcifer Lateralis) WC Male named Norman, apporx. 9 months old in my care now for apporx. 1 month
• Handling - I’ve done my best to avoid handling by choice, however its been 2-3 times this month. This has been when he has wandered out/attempted to leave when the doors have been open and climbed on my hands.
• Feeding - He seems to only want crickets, though has eaten fruit flies, soldier fly larvae and waxworms on occasion. I’ve offered an assortment of feeders. He doesn’t seem overly interested in food. I have a cricket climber where I place 5 or so crickets swapping or adding to it each day depending on its status (eaten, escaped etc.) Along with a wall mounted feeding dish where I’ll put 1-2 assorted worms - checked daily, removing, adding or changing depending on status. Feeders are usually gut loaded with carrots by me and the food supplied with them by the place I order from (Port Credit Pets - for those in the GTA)
• Supplements - I’ve been using Repti Calcium W/O D3 on most feeders and Repashy Calcium Plus once every 1-2 weeks.
• Watering - I use various techniques. If I’m doing it manually I use a wash bottle to drip/form a stream offered 2 times a day. He usually drinks a little then. I do manual misting if needed with a hand mister 2-3 times a day (At lights on and as they are going off, typically. I have alot of automation set up to handle much of it or the rest if need be). I have an Exo Terra Dripper plant as well. He will drink from that and off leaves that I've seen on occasion.
• Fecal Description - Medium brown with a white section. Usually has a relatively firm consistency while wet. Looks like what I've seen to be considered "normal". I’ve NOT yet had him tested. As a side: I haven’t decided on vet/gotten appointment. Though in all honesty, I’ve been nervous stressing him out too much early on driving him around etc. I spoke to Campus Estates Animal Hospital Guelph & Burloak Animal Hospital
• History - When I got him he had a small (tiny) piece of shed that soon came off. He shed again completely yesterday (4 weeks almost to the day from getting him). Personal history, this is my first Cham - otherwise I've been keeping reptiles for 15ish years: currently with a Leopard Gecko (10yr), Emerald Tree Boa (11yr) and Ridgetail (Ackie) Monitor (13yr) confident with them, a little nervous with this little guy.

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Currently in a temporary setup while I finish constructing his forever home. Exo Terra (Glass) 18x18x24 (moving into an Exo Terra (Glass) 18x18x36)
• Lighting-
  • Current setup in temporary enclosure:
    • 2x Exo Terra Terrasky LED bars (front & back of the top)
    • 2x 12” Sunblaster T5HO fixtures with ZooMed ReptiSun 5.0 T5HO liner bulbs (across the middle and diagonal from center to back left corner) (I made 3D printed rises at various heights and have them to give good distance from the different locations in the enclosure - the best I can without a solarmeter)
    • 1x Exo Terra 8” dome with a 40w frosted incandescent
• Lights are on on a 12 hour cycle. LEDs come one with the Incandescent ramping up for 30 mins when the UVs come on. UV off and ramping down for 30 mins at night.
• Temperature-
  • Current setup in temporary enclosure:
  • Set up currently are 3 probe therm/hydro stats and 3 Aqara HomeKit therm/hydro stats.
    • Probe #1: (Exo Terra approx. 6-8 inchs from ceiling center front) around 23-25c (73f-77f) DAY and 17c-19c (62f-66f) NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 6 inch above floor in cover) around 19c-22c (66f-72f) DAY and 16c-18c (61f-64f) NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 3 inchs from ceiling under heat lamp) around 25c-30c (77f-86f) DAY and 17c-19c (62f-66f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #1: (approx 8 inchs from floor on left wall) around 19c-20c (66-68f) DAY and 16c (61f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #2: (approx 2 inchs from ceiling on right wall) around 24c (75f) DAY and 17c (62f) NIGHT
  • Aqara #3: (approx 10 inchs from ceiling mount in central cover) around 22c-23c (72f-73f) DAY and 18c (64f) NIGHT
• The Aqara #2 sensor at the top is programmed to adjust heat lamp strength during the day. If it goes above 25c reducing intensity to 50%-80% and turning the fans on depending on temps as well as bringing it back up if temp goes below 24c
• Humidity-
  • Same 3 probe therm/hydro stats and 3 Aqara HomeKit therm/hydro stats.
    • Probe #1: (Exo Terra approx. 6-8 inchs from ceiling center front) I think is damaged 25%-50% DAY and 50%-70% NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 6 inch above floor in cover) around 80%-90% DAY and 99% NIGHT
    • Probe #2: (Generic from Amazon approx 3 inchs from ceiling under heat lamp) around 45%-60% DAY and 80%-99%NIGHT
  • Aqara #1: (approx 8 inchs from floor on left wall) around 65%-75%DAY and 80%-90% NIGHT
  • Aqara #2: (approx 2 inchs from ceiling on right wall) around 50%-60% DAY and 85% NIGHT
  • Aqara #3: (approx 10 inchs from ceiling mount in central cover) around 90% DAY and 99% NIGHT
• The Aqara #2 sensor at the top is programmed to adjust humidity during the day. If it goes below 50% turning Monsoon on for 1 minute. During the night Aqara #2 sensor will turn the ReptiFogger on if sensor drops below 85% and turn it off when it goes to 90%
• Plants - Yes, my “Hero Plant” is a Ficus Benjamina (lime) in the center, a quite small Ficus Benjamina (white) on the left side front. Along with 4-5 air plants are diagonally placed inward at the doors to add cover
• Placement - The enclosure is in my bedroom connected office on an IKEA “Kallax” shelf with a top ( 32” high). I have window AC unit that keeps the room around 22c-23c (71f-73f) during the day and 20c (68f) at night this is about 10-12 feet away. Its usually just me in my office area. I have a ground air purifier that I like to have on from time to time about 5 feet away. Enclosure top is at 56 inchs from the ground. Again, this is his temporary space though the 36” will go beside it possibly with a riser if suggested
• Location - Im located in the GTA in Ontario, Canada

Current Problem -

This is my first Cham after lots of research. I’m could simply be being an over concerned new Cham keeper, though there are few things I'd love more info on, suggestions with or what I can do better for my little one!

• I’m a little concerned about his eating (not seeming overly interested anyway). Whats better gut loading? Does my supplementation need to change it up at all?
• How are my lights? I want to make sure my lights(UV), temps (too cold?) and humidity (too wet? too dry?) are right and how to better improve/dial them in. I also want to be certain I'm testing everything for the new enclosure so that when it’s finished, it will be great for him.
• He tends to be on the darker side often. Just his usual colours? Too cold, possibly stressed etc?
• Any suggests for the vet/vet trip (I had the wonderful recommendation for Guelph from a kind, knowledgeable and overal awesome keeper on here - any concerns with taking him/best way to transport him and collect feral sample? Its about a 1-1.5 hour drive for me. Anyone in this area ever had an experience with Burloak?
• He usually stays at near the top, when not on an adventure, though sometimes climbs down to the center doors and paws at the glass like he wants out. It freaked me out at first but he usually stops after a couple mins and wanders away?
• Any other helpful suggestions, tips or glaring oversights on my part?

I appreciate any and all feedback both for his temporary home and the new one that I’m working on. I want to create the best environment I can for him as possible. Thank you so much for your time, care and wisdom! Any help means alot to me!

Welcome James to the forum! There's a great community here for support. I can tell you that the hardest part of keeping chams is worrying and over doing things. Set up has a lot of plants to give him the privacy they like. Alot of great advice with with great people here. Your dude is from the same shipment my pair came from so they are doing great. The uvb lights is a bit much. One fixture is enough.
Feeding is interesting as Lats are smaller so they will be eating less than we think of other chams, unless of course it's fruitflies. They wl never fl their belly. Keep us posted!