cham dark green and shriveled not moving one eye open

[hilltowner]

Hi, Yesterday morning when we first woke up, our 3-4 mo. panther cham, Zen, was a very dark green, shriveled -looking, and couldn't move. His one eye was shut and sunken, but his other eye was open and moving. The day before he was eating great, very active, not acting different at all.

We've only had him one week and he's been eating fine (a lot of crickets and mealy worms with multi-vit and calcium with vit. D), get's misted every 3 hours for 5 minutes, has two 90 deg. basking spots, 3 live plants (Scheffera, jade, and Dracaena), and 2 uvb in a 2 x 2 x 4 air cage. The lights are on timers for 8am to 8 pm. My daughter has a heater which keeps her room at about 70-75 F.

The one thing that we think might have happened was that he slept on the very edge of the cage, where the mister doesn't reach much. Until that night, he always slept in the middle of the cage where the mister is at its max. Also, the mister's pump (a new Mistking I had only had 5 days) seemed weak and wasn't getting the water out.

At first I thought he just wasn't going to make it. My daughter has been very ill for the past several months and has several dr. appt.'s every week. She saved up for this chameleon and his cage and he has literally changed her life. Even though we didn't plan on handling him, when my daughter would open the cage, he would walk to her and climb right on her hand. Even in the short time we've had Zen, they've developed this incredible connection. So, thinking he was dying was awful.

As I called the nearest reptile vet, who was over an hour away, my daughter sat next to his cage and misted him. The misting seemed to help significantly. By the time we left for the vets, Zen was looking ok. An hour later at the vets, she said that he looked good, though she gave him some fluids just in case. We also gave her a fecal sample that same day which resulted in a clean bill of health for parasites. I should also mentioned that he shed the day after this happened, so I don't know if that could have been a factor.

The only thing we can think is that because he slept on the very edge where the mister didn't fully reach and that the mister malfunctioned, that he was severely dehydrated. Could he become so severely dehydrated and look so awful in such a short time?

Anybody agree or have other ideas? Thanks! I'll do a form on the next post.

Thanks! Marla

 

[carol5208]

Hi Marla, welcome to the forums. so sorry to hear about your daughter being ill first and foremost and also your chameleon. I am a little confused by your post. You chameleon should be able to move to get to the water. It should not matter if the mist reaches him or not. Also, are you running the mister at night? It is not necessary. 3 or 4 times a day for 5 minutes is plenty. You want the cage to dry out at some point.he would not get dehydrated that fast in one day. What do his eyes look like now?

 

[Elizadolots]

Hi!

Seconding what carol said. I do hope your daughter is okay. I understand that her situation makes saving the chameleon a high priority. You've done the right thing by bringing the chameleon to the vet. I really congratulate you on that.

I think the information you provide on your set up is going to be instrumental in determining what is going on. However, I also want to point out that you have not had the animal for long so it's entirely possible (I would say probable) that whatever is the problem happened before you got the animal. Chameleons are notorious for waiting until it's almost too late to give any sign that they are in distress.

 

[hilltowner]

Thanks, Carol and Eliza. This is our first chameleon (as you may be able to tell from all my questions).

I guess my first misconception is that you have to mist frequently. We have a hygrometer but it only seems to stay in the 70-80 range for a short time after the mister stops. We've put plastic on two sides of the cage (the other side is the door and the final side has a uvb light and a basking light, so I prefer it be directly against the cage) and we have 3 live plants. So, I figured if I misted more frequently, I could keep the humidity in a good range. I also thought that it helped for the cham to be wet, but now realize that the humidity is enough, except when it comes to drinking. That's why I thought he was dehydrated because he spent the night without being misted.

I'll post my answers to the chameleon info. form in a second post.

Thanks! Marla

 

[hilltowner]

Here's my chameleon form:

Chameleon Info:

Your Chameleon – Zen is a panther, male, 3-4 mos., We have had him 1 week.

Handling – My daughter handles him a couple times of day for 5-10 min. She only picks him up when he climbs on to her hand. If he refuses, she leaves him alone. He also free ranges on some birch limbs that we have screwed into her wall above her bed.

Feeding – We feed him small crickets (6-8/day), mealyworms (6-8/day), waxworms (2/week). Because he is young, no schedule – just add 3-4 more when his feeding cup is empty. Gut-loading crickets with banana skin, apple, broccoli, and carrots.

Supplements – Was giving him Rep-Cal phosphorous-free calcium w/ vit. D original powder and Rep-Cal Herptivite multivitamin daily. But just read today about giving calcium without vit. D daily and giving the calcium w/ vit. D and multivitamin 2x month. So, we are going to make those changes. But the day he was sick, I was still doing the calcium w/ vit. D and multivitamin every feeding.

Watering – Mistking starter system. Every 3 hours for 5 minutes. He loves to drink from the leaves and the hand water mister.

Fecal Description – Feces: Dark brown with some white on top. Was just tested for parasites this week and came back clean.

History – No previous history other than purchased from FL Cham and his sire was Wuerffel.


Cage Info:

Cage Type - 24” x 24” x 48” screen cage.

Lighting - Repti Halogen 75 Watts in flukers mini dome, Zoo Med Repti Basking Spot Lamp 100 watts in flukers mini dome, 18" Reptisun 10.0 UVB 20.0 Bulb in hood, Reptisun 5.0 UVB bulb compact fluorescent in large aluminum dome. Lights on from 8 am – 8 pm.

Temperature – Temperature ranges from 70 - 90 deg. 90 deg. at basking sites. 70 deg. at coolest sites. Overnight temperature is 70 deg. Temperature measured with Zoo Med Economy Analog Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge.

Humidity – Humidity levels: 30% to 90 % . Create and maintain humidity: Mistking starting mister kit for 5 minutes every 3 hours. Plexiglass on 2 sides of cage and 3 live plants. Measure humidity: Zoo Med Economy Analog Dual Thermometer and Humidity Gauge.

Plants – 3 live plants: Scheffera, jade, and Dracaena plants. Also, 2 fake plants, one 5 ' fake vine, 1 Flukers Repta vine, 3 surreal vines, and 1 large sandblasted manzanita branch.

Placement – Cage location: In a corner of my daughter's bedroom away from the door and windows. She's a quiet type, so pretty mellow room. Not near any fans, air vents or high traffic areas. I just ordered a 14” high, 24” x 24” wire rack to hold the cage up so that I can put a tub under for drainage. However, when this event happened, the cage was on the floor.

Location – Near Albany, NY. Northeast.

Current Problem - Yesterday morning when we first woke up, our panther cham, Zen, was a very dark green, shriveled -looking, and couldn't move. His one eye was shut and sunken, but his other eye was open and moving. The day before he was eating great, very active, not acting different at all. He seemed to recover after being misted. We took him to a reptile vet and she said he looked good, but gave him some fluid. She tested his feces and it came back clean.



Pictures are helpful

 

[Nellycool1]

Welcome to the forums

Another thing the others didn't mention is try and cut out some of the mealworms chams can't digest there she'll especially when young and can impact your chams stomach and can make them ill. Hope Your Cham and daughter r both ok. Neil

 

[hilltowner]

What if I use the small mealyworms?

Thanks!

Marla

 

[hilltowner]

Here are photos of the cage and how Zen looked the night before.

Thanks again!

Marla

 

[Elizadolots]

I think your lighting is an issue. I would use a Reptisun 5.0 UVB on the top of the cage (I would get the linear tube and put it in that fixture.) I would use a 60 watt basking bulb and put that on top of the enclosure as well.

The sun should come from above.

Check your temps then. You might need to go to a higher watt basking bulb but you should try the 60 first. If your basking spot is 85, then call that good. When he gets older you might want to up the wattage on the basking bulb.


Mealworms are hard bodied no matter what their age. Unless you feed them off right after they shed (which can be hard to manage), they are not a good every day feeder.

Most pet stores carry phoenix worms (also called Repti-worms or Calci-worms). They are a soft body, high calcium option.

 

[hilltowner]

Thanks so much for the information. I'll take out the 2nd uvb light. I just ordered some dubias and silkworms for him, too.

It's amazing how much mis-information is out there. A person at a pet store told me that because of the size of the cage I needed 2 basking and 2 uvb lights and I've been told many times that mealyworms are perfect for chams. I'm so glad you all are here to help correct all the misinformation. I know chams are very specific in their needs. We also have 2 dogs, 2 cats, 2 ducks, 3 hermit crabs, 2 oriental fire-bellied toads, a garter snake, and a leopard gecko, but the cham is the most challenging pet we've owned.

Thanks again! Marla

 

[Goldenarcher1328]

Welcome to the Forums! As the others have previously stated, the lighting sounds like a mild problem and ditch the mealworms! haha it sounds like you are in very capable hands! I figured however that i would do my bit and welcome you in! I'm Dan by the way, i'm on here daily and am always willing to help out! send me a private message if i don't manage to find your posts haha!

As far as your mister not working at prime efficiency, soak the nozzles in CLR ( Calcium Lyme Remover) Rinse thoroughly and reattach them to the system. I Never use tap water to fill my misters because the minerals inside will clog your systems.

Good luck and keep us posted. By the way, hope you daughter gets better, animals have a magical way about them when it comes to healing our bodies and hearts.

 

[Elizadolots]

Marla, I think most of us have suffered from "incorrect pet store info". One of the biggest misconceptions about chameleons is that they need the cage to be really hot. Not true. They need a basking spot that's hot, but they also need places they can go that are cooler.