Chameleon acting strange

[cherishsgirl]

Chameleon Info:
Your Chameleon - The species: Panther Chameleon, sex: Male , and age of your chameleon: 7 months. How long has it been in your care? 3 months.
Handling - How often do you handle your chameleon: Often, once daily.
Feeding - What are you feeding your cham: Crickets 6-10, silk worms 4-5 medium large, 1 horn worm once a week. What is the schedule: wake up at 630am auto lights, around 8am check calendar to see what supplement using for that day. How are you gut-loading your feeders: Josh's frogs yellow gel and cricket food.
Supplements - What brand and type of calcium and vitamin products are you dusting your feeders with and what is the schedule: Zoo med Calcium w D3 every 2 weeks, Rep Cal calcium w/o D3 everyday, Zoo Med Multi Vitamins w/o D3 every 2 weeks and Miner-All minerals w/o D3 every other day
Watering - What kind of watering technique do you use: Mist King auto mister. How often and how long to you mist: twice a day and manually 1-2 extra times a day twice a day for 1 1/2 minutes and manually 1-2 extra times a day.
Do you see your chameleon drinking: Occasionally.
Fecal Description - Briefly note colors and consistency from recent droppings: brown and white it was brown and orange (why I increased misting due to winter humidity). Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites: No
History - Any previous information about your cham that might be useful to others when trying to help you.
Escanor has been acting strangely for a few days now gaping, moving really slow (slower than usual), falling, days without eating.
Cage Info: 24x24x48 Reptireeze cage with dragon ledges, drip pan under screen floor, 4 live plants throughout cage with about 6 branches giant climbing vine towards the top of cage for basking closer to lights, full throttle feeder mounted to side of cage, zoo med little dripper.
Cage Type - Describe your cage (Glass, Screen, Combo?): Combo, PVC and screen Cage (Dragon Ledge). What are the dimensions? 24x24x48
Lighting - What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using: Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit 24" With Bulb T5 HO 12% Bulb, Arcadia Ceramic Reflector-5.5" Halogen Heat Lamp-75 Watt
What is your daily lighting schedule: 630 am- 630 pm
Temperature - What temp range have you created (cage floor to basking spot): 80-84 Lowest overnight temp: 65 How do you measure these temps: thermostat, laser thermometer
Humidity - What are your humidity levels: N/A How are you creating and maintaining these levels: Misting twice a day What do you use to measure humidity: N/A
Plants - Are you using live plants? If so, what kind? : Yes, Umbrella tree, Lemon Surprise, 2 pathos
Placement - Where is your cage located: on top of a table. Is it near any fans, air vents, or high traffic areas: Next to a window on a table away from fan and vents. At what height is the top of the cage relative to your room floor: About 7 feet from the floor.
Location - Where are you geographically located: Slidell, LA

Current Problem - The current problem you are concerned about.
He has not been eating as often, moving slower than usual, gaping, he has been falling, wanting out of the cage, he does this thing like he is clawing at the glass front of the cage to get out.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Welcome to the world of chameleons and cf! Could you include photos of you cage?

 

[TayloredExotics]

Miner-All minerals w/o D3 every other day

This is way too much; you should use EITHER the zooMed multivitamin or this every two weeks. There is likely a toxicity issue going on. The rest of your husbandry looks fairly on point though, so great job!

 

[MissSkittles]

Can you post some pics of your enclosure and chameleon?

 

[Mountain Dragon]

You said… How often do you handle your chameleon: Often, once daily. This isn’t recommended because chameleons are fragile animals… I would recommend handling once a week.

you said… Crickets 6-10, silk worms 4-5 medium large, 1 horn worm once a week. That is quite a lot of a 7 month chameleon… I would do 8 feeders a day till he lays sperm plugs then slow it down.

you said…wake up at 630am auto lights, around 8am check calendar to see what supplement using for that day… you need to have lights off 12 hours on 12 hours.

you said…: Josh's frogs yellow gel and cricket food… I have no clue on the yellow gel but what is recommended is to gutload w vegetables and fruits I will attach a graphic of good gutloads

you said… Zoo med Calcium w D3 every 2 weeks, Rep Cal calcium w/o D3 everyday, Zoo Med Multi Vitamins w/o D3 every 2 weeks and Miner-All minerals w/o D3 every other day… I’m not good at explaining supplements but your very close to the right ones

you said… What kind of watering technique do you use: Mist King auto mister. How often and how long to you mist: twice a day and manually 1-2 extra times a day twice a day for 1 1/2 minutes and manually 1-2 extra times a day.. you do need to measure humidity levels

you said…Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites: No…. I would get a fecal done

you said…Cage Info: 24x24x48 Reptireeze cage with dragon ledges, drip pan under screen floor, 4 live plants throughout cage with about 6 branches giant climbing vine towards the top of cage for basking closer to lights, full throttle feeder mounted to side of cage, zoo med little dripper…. Your cage sounds good I have no clue why he would be acting that way.

you said…What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using: Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit 24" With Bulb T5 HO 12% Bulb, Arcadia Ceramic Reflector-5.5" Halogen Heat Lamp-75 Watt…, are these raised?

 

[Mountain Dragon]

Helpful graphics

 

[Mountain Dragon]

I might of missed something bc I don’t have a panther I have a veiled so if I was unsure I didn’t say anything

@MissSkittles

 

[MissSkittles]

I might of missed something bc I don’t have a panther I have a veiled so if I was unsure I didn’t say anything

@MissSkittles

You did great! I do disagree on the daily handling though…my panther insists on being handled not just daily but sometimes a few times daily. If he wants to come out, he lets me know and will immediately climb onto me when I open his door. I am his free range ‘tree’.
The multivitamins are being overdone and this is most likely the cause of the problem, or at least the only one that stands out to me. Some vitamins are fat soluble, which means they take longer to be metabolized and eliminated, so they can build up to toxic levels in the body. Vitamin D3, A and I believe E are fat soluble. I would hold off on all multivitamins for a bit and hydrate as much as possible. Adding hornworms to his diet will help give him some extra hydration. If he is falling a lot, you may need to add some safety ‘nets’ so he doesn’t get hurt, or use a hospital bin. A visit to an experienced chameleon vet is definitely needed.

 

[Beman]

You did great! I do disagree on the daily handling though…my panther insists on being handled not just daily but sometimes a few times daily. If he wants to come out, he lets me know and will immediately climb onto me when I open his door. I am his free range ‘tree’.
The multivitamins are being overdone and this is most likely the cause of the problem, or at least the only one that stands out to me. Some vitamins are fat soluble, which means they take longer to be metabolized and eliminated, so they can build up to toxic levels in the body. Vitamin D3, A and I believe E are fat soluble. I would hold off on all multivitamins for a bit and hydrate as much as possible. Adding hornworms to his diet will help give him some extra hydration. If he is falling a lot, you may need to add some safety ‘nets’ so he doesn’t get hurt, or use a hospital bin. A visit to an experienced chameleon vet is definitely needed.

Agreed... handling is determined by the cham... IF it wants to be handled or not.

 

[Beman]

I do not see how it could be a toxicity issue. mineral outdoor does not have the fat soluble vitamins we worry about. Unless your using the indoor version that has D3 in it but even then the amounts are much lower then other every day all in one supplements that are considered "safe".

But I am concerned about the gaping... Could be an RI starting. Which would require a Vet. Are you fogging the cage at all? How are you testing your temps at basking?

Your feeding amounts are fine for a 7 month old panther.

Pics of the entire cage would be helpful.

 

[Mountain Dragon]

You did great! I do disagree on the daily handling though…my panther insists on being handled not just daily but sometimes a few times daily. If he wants to come out, he lets me know and will immediately climb onto me when I open his door. I am his free range ‘tree’.
The multivitamins are being overdone and this is most likely the cause of the problem, or at least the only one that stands out to me. Some vitamins are fat soluble, which means they take longer to be metabolized and eliminated, so they can build up to toxic levels in the body. Vitamin D3, A and I believe E are fat soluble. I would hold off on all multivitamins for a bit and hydrate as much as possible. Adding hornworms to his diet will help give him some extra hydration. If he is falling a lot, you may need to add some safety ‘nets’ so he doesn’t get hurt, or use a hospital bin. A visit to an experienced chameleon vet is definitely needed.

For the handling that’s interesting I guess I was thinking about veileds those toddlers …. Great info +1

 

[cherishsgirl]

You said… How often do you handle your chameleon: Often, once daily. This isn’t recommended because chameleons are fragile animals… I would recommend handling once a week. Not always handling sometimes it is just once a week but, there are some days I handle him more often.

you said… Crickets 6-10, silk worms 4-5 medium large, 1 horn worm once a week. That is quite a lot of a 7 month chameleon… I would do 8 feeders a day till he lays sperm plugs then slow it down. I do either or daily not all of these in the same day. The hornworm is just a treat with a few feeders. The hornworm is good if they are dehydrated o get them hydrated quickly.

you said…wake up at 630am auto lights, around 8am check calendar to see what supplement using for that day… you need to have lights off 12 hours on 12 hours. I forgot to put 630 pm so it is actually 630 am to 630 pm

you said…: Josh's frogs yellow gel and cricket food… I have no clue on the yellow gel but what is recommended is to gutload w vegetables and fruits I will attach a graphic of good gutloads. Josh's Frog's Insect Watering Gel with Calcium (16 oz), Josh's frog's cricket food ingredients:
Grain Products, Plant Protein Products, Animal Protein Products, Processed Grain By-Products, Forage Products, Roughage Products, Animal Fat preserved with BHA, Methionine Supplement, Vitamin A Supplement, D-activated Animal Sterol (Source of Vitamin D3), Vitamin E Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Ground Limestone, Calcium Phosphate, Salt and traces of Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Iron Carbonate, Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide and Sodium Selenite.
Crude Protein Min....18.0%
Crude Fat Min..........2.5%
Crude Fiber Max.......6.5%

you said… Zoo med Calcium w D3 every 2 weeks, Rep Cal calcium w/o D3 everyday, Zoo Med Multi Vitamins w/o D3 every 2 weeks and Miner-All minerals w/o D3 every other day… I’m not good at explaining supplements but your very close to the right ones

you said… What kind of watering technique do you use: Mist King auto mister. How often and how long to you mist: twice a day and manually 1-2 extra times a day twice a day for 1 1/2 minutes and manually 1-2 extra times a day.. you do need to measure humidity levels

you said…Has this chameleon ever been tested for parasites: No…. I would get a fecal done

you said…Cage Info: 24x24x48 Reptireeze cage with dragon ledges, drip pan under screen floor, 4 live plants throughout cage with about 6 branches giant climbing vine towards the top of cage for basking closer to lights, full throttle feeder mounted to side of cage, zoo med little dripper…. Your cage sounds good I have no clue why he would be acting that way. I recently moved the plants round.

you said…What brand, model, and types of lighting are you using: Arcadia ProT5 UVB Kit 24" With Bulb T5 HO 12% Bulb, Arcadia Ceramic Reflector-5.5" Halogen Heat Lamp-75 Watt…, are these raised? Yes, they are at outside and on the top of the cage the heat lamp has the protective wire on it also

I attached some pictures of his setup, fecal (one of last week and the one with white is today), one of how he sits at the door, a close up of the base of his tail I thought it looked swollen.

 

[cherishsgirl]

This is way too much; you should use EITHER the zooMed multivitamin or this every two weeks. There is likely a toxicity issue going on. The rest of your husbandry looks fairly on point though, so great job!

So, minerals and multi vitamin should be treated the same?

 

[Mountain Dragon]

I attached some pictures of his setup, fecal (one of last week and the one with white is today), one of how he sits at the door, a close up of the base of his tail I thought it looked swollen.

I would go buy 2 pothos and a money tree to fill the cage up and get some sticks too… sticks u can get from outside just no sap producing ones and clean then

 

[cherishsgirl]

I do not see how it could be a toxicity issue. mineral outdoor does not have the fat soluble vitamins we worry about. Unless your using the indoor version that has D3 in it but even then the amounts are much lower then other every day all in one supplements that are considered "safe".

But I am concerned about the gaping... Could be an RI starting. Which would require a Vet. Are you fogging the cage at all? How are you testing your temps at basking?

Your feeding amounts are fine for a 7 month old panther.

Pics of the entire cage would be helpful.

I use a laser to monitor the temp and I use Inkbird Thermometer and Hygrometerwhich uses a probe and it is an app on my phone.

 

[TayloredExotics]

So, minerals and multi vitamin should be treated the same?

Yep! The miner al product is meant to be used in conjunction with a specific gut load (vit al). I use it once a month and reptivite once a month to make sure all bases are covered (I feel like reptivite has too much phosphorus for solo use anyway)

 

[cherishsgirl]

I use a laser to monitor the temp and I use Inkbird Thermometer and Hygrometerwhich uses a probe and it is an app on my phone.

Also, I use the timer on the mistking mister system and I will try to manually mist once more in the middle of the day

 

[cherishsgirl]

Just wanted to give an update. I changed his supplemental intake as suggested and he is thriving!! I also have the mister programmed 3 times daily during the winter and 2 times daily for summer.