Chameleon bite power?

[kwengkynator]

Ive been wondering about the power of the jaw muscles of my chameleon lately. I haven't been bitten by I was just wondering because a friend of mine asked how hard do they bite and I couldn't answer it myself. Thought I should ask it here.

I have 2 veileds a male and a female. My female used to hiss at me now shes well acquainted with me, which is nice. Now hissing or no drastic color changes. I recently got a male, he seems shy but not violent.

Which ones have the biggest snap to its bite? Species wise that is.

THANKS!

 

[Mike Fisher]

The larger they are the harder they bite. I'd hate to be bitten by a Mellers. I get bit regularly by my Kinyongia uluguruensis and they can give a pretty good pinch with marks that take a few hours to disappear.

 

[SJRG95]

I can't really answer your question but I feed my female veiled watermelon and she loves it and one time my nails were painted red and I was holding her while watching tv and she started to bite at it like it was fruit. And she left a few teeth marks on my nail polish. So I'm sure it's not strong but I'm sure it can hurt

 

[kwengkynator]

Thanks, just one of those fun fact things I wanted to know.

 

[Mike Fisher]

They can bite hard enough that if they get their own tail instead of your finger, it can can cause the loss of the end of their tail. Found that out the hard way.

 

[Lathis]

I've had my Jax bite my finger during hand feeding. For such a little guy, he has a heck of a hard bite. He could break skin if angry, I have no doubt. Somewhere on the forum, I have seen photos of a male veiled bite that probably should have gotten stitches. Luckily, most of the time cham bites are an accident or a warning.

 

[pigglett79]

They can bite pretty hard. My jackson has bit my finger a couple times accidentally when feeding. It leaves a little mark but does not draw blood. It really doesn't hurt much. My panther bit me once, totally my fault, I was putting a stick bug in his cage and he goes nuts for them. I didnt seem to get my hand out of the way fast enough and his tongue stuck to my finger, rather than pull away and injure his tongue I just let my finger move forward in to his mouth until he released it and he bit down. That one did draw a little blood and did hurt. But overall not bad.

 

[zlew]

What we say at the nature center i work at is "if it has a mouth, it can bite!" but there are only two reasons an animal will bite you--if it feels threatened or angry, or if it thinks you might be food.

 

[kwengkynator]

Interesting answers. I guess I have answers for when my guess comes over. Which is rarely.

 

[Montium]

The larger they are the harder they bite. I'd hate to be bitten by a Mellers. I get bit regularly by my Kinyongia uluguruensis and they can give a pretty good pinch with marks that take a few hours to disappear.

+1 the same with the grip. Bigger ones can easily draw blood with feet or teeth.

 

[Chris Anderson]

Chameleons can actually bite with a fair bit of force. Bite force has been measured in a number of species, but I'm only aware of it being published for various Bradypodion species. For instance, female Natal Midlands Dwarf Chameleons (Bradypodion thamnobates), which average only 6.642 cm SVL, will produce an average bite force of 24.74 N (da Silva et al., 2014 - PLoS ONE 9 (1)). Obviously though this is going to be quite a bit lower than say a Panther Chameleon (Furcifer pardalis), which are known to reach over 52 cm in total length. We can actually make a mathematical approximation, however, of what we could expect a larger species to produce.

If we assume a more typical sized panther chameleon (say 40 cm TL) and an approximately 50% tail length (thus a 20cm SVL), F. pardalis can be expected to be just over 3x the length of female B. thamnobates (20 cm / 6.642 cm). We then need to know, however, how a change in length relates to a change in bite force. The force a muscle can produce scales with muscle cross sectional area rather than length. Dimensional analysis tells us that area is proportionate to length squared (area is calculated as the product of two lengths), so area (and thus force) would scale in relation to length squared based on a pattern of geometric similarity (Hill, 1950 - Sci. Prog. 38). Thus, since F. pardalis is expected to be approximately 3x the length of female B. thamnobates, you would expect their bite force to on average be 9 times (3 squared) that of female B. thamnobates under geometric similarity. So, it would not be unreasonable to expect that an adult male F. pardalis could produce a bite force of over 222 N or a pound force of almost 50 lb!

Now, there are cases where an animal's proportions do not scale with geometric similarity. Veiled chameleons (Chamaeleo calyptratus) are a good example of this. The casque of C. calyptratus is not geometrically similar to that of B. thamnobates or F. pardalis. The structure of the casque is made up of bone and the space between the bones is filled primarily with jaw adductor muscles (the muscles responsible for closing the mouth and bite force). The casque thus creates an increased surface for jaw adductor muscles to attach and an increased space to store the bodies of these muscles. As a result, the enlarged casque serves not only a sexual selection and species recognition function, but also serves to increase the force they are able to bite with. Chamaeleo calyptratus thus have a disproportionately high bite force for their body size when compared to other chameleons.

Chris

 

[Miss Lily]

I have kept chams since 2008 - have had 3 veileds (2 females, 1 male), two Jackson's and a Carpet. The Carpet (also the smallest of the lot) is the only one that has bitten me!

Here's a link you might find interesting! A bite from a female veiled that required 5 stitches! https://www.chameleonforums.com/she-bit-crap-out-me-12332/

 

[kwengkynator]

Chameleons can actually bite with a fair bit of force. Bite force has been measured in a number of species, but I'm only aware of it being published for various Bradypodion species. For instance, female Natal Midlands Dwarf Chameleons (Bradypodion thamnobates), which average only 6.642 cm SVL, will produce an average bite force of 24.74 N (da Silva et al., 2014 - PLoS ONE 9 (1)). Obviously though this is going to be quite a bit lower than say a Panther Chameleon (Furcifer pardalis), which are known to reach over 52 cm in total length. We can actually make a mathematical approximation, however, of what we could expect a larger species to produce.

If we assume a more typical sized panther chameleon (say 40 cm TL) and an approximately 50% tail length (thus a 20cm SVL), F. pardalis can be expected to be just over 3x the length of female B. thamnobates (20 cm / 6.642 cm). We then need to know, however, how a change in length relates to a change in bite force. The force a muscle can produce scales with muscle cross sectional area rather than length. Dimensional analysis tells us that area is proportionate to length squared (area is calculated as the product of two lengths), so area (and thus force) would scale in relation to length squared based on a pattern of geometric similarity (Hill, 1950 - Sci. Prog. 38). Thus, since F. pardalis is expected to be approximately 3x the length of female B. thamnobates, you would expect their bite force to on average be 9 times (3 squared) that of female B. thamnobates under geometric similarity. So, it would not be unreasonable to expect that an adult male F. pardalis could produce a bite force of over 222 N or a pound force of almost 50 lb!

Now, there are cases where an animal's proportions do not scale with geometric similarity. Veiled chameleons (Chamaeleo calyptratus) are a good example of this. The casque of C. calyptratus is not geometrically similar to that of B. thamnobates or F. pardalis. The structure of the casque is made up of bone and the space between the bones is filled primarily with jaw adductor muscles (the muscles responsible for closing the mouth and bite force). The casque thus creates an increased surface for jaw adductor muscles to attach and an increased space to store the bodies of these muscles. As a result, the enlarged casque serves not only a sexual selection and species recognition function, but also serves to increase the force they are able to bite with. Chamaeleo calyptratus thus have a disproportionately high bite force for their body size when compared to other chameleons.

Chris

Interesting details on the post. I have never been biten, yet. My male seems to be a docile one. ON the other hand, my female can be a big pain in the *** sometimes. Unless you have food dont even bother getting close to her. x)

Lil twerp!

I have kept chams since 2008 - have had 3 veileds (2 females, 1 male), two Jackson's and a Carpet. The Carpet (also the smallest of the lot) is the only one that has bitten me!

Here's a link you might find interesting! A bite from a female veiled that required 5 stitches! https://www.chameleonforums.com/she-bit-crap-out-me-12332/

HOLY SMOKES!! That look painful!

 

[Mike Fisher]

I have kept chams since 2008 - have had 3 veileds (2 females, 1 male), two Jackson's and a Carpet. The Carpet (also the smallest of the lot) is the only one that has bitten me!

Quite a few of the Kinyongia love to bite. I was only bitten once or twice in decades prior to them. Now it is a regular occurrence especially with WC.
Here's what they usually look like:

 

[kwengkynator]

Quite a few of the Kinyongia love to bite. I was only bitten once or twice in decades prior to them. Now it is a regular occurrence especially with WC.
Here's what they usually look like:

They dont look very docile do they

 

[RyU]

Quite a few of the Kinyongia love to bite. I was only bitten once or twice in decades prior to them. Now it is a regular occurrence especially with WC.
Here's what they usually look like:

Agreed. WC bite far more often than CB. Also, Veilds have the hardest bite and most aggressive in my experience.

 

[brownie64]

I had a veiled that was only 4 months old that bit me and drew blood the whole size of his mouth. Thank GOD they are more hiss, and mock strike for intimidation rather than bite. IMHO I believe they have to be really mad, scared or mistake your finger for food to bite that hard. I've never had a Jackson's even his at me guess I've been lucky there.

 

[kwengkynator]

I had a veiled that was only 4 months old that bit me and drew blood the whole size of his mouth. Thank GOD they are more hiss, and mock strike for intimidation rather than bite. IMHO I believe they have to be really mad, scared or mistake your finger for food to bite that hard. I've never had a Jackson's even his at me guess I've been lucky there.

You got lucky man! I have 2 veiled my female is always pissy. She would hiss and lunge at me all the time UNLESS I present her with food. Then she would gladly waltz to my hand and eat from eat. After she notice that the food is gone she runs away! x) Then again Ive never been biten before

 

[Franquixote]

Raising this from the dead b/c I got bit last night- I was trying to take his pic while he was sleeping and he went from fast asleep to knocking the phone out of my hand instantly...he fell, I put on some gloves to try and inspect him and help him back up- I should have just left him and walked away but I wanted to make sure he was OK - and honestly since I had perfectly clean brand new gloves that were perfect for testing how strong his bite is - mostly he swung his head into my hand and head-butted not bit me. He let go after half a shake of his head.
I'm not sure how to measure force of it, but guessing maybe 10 ft/lbs?

 

[arosesh]

I have a giant veiled chameleon who climbed up onto my shoulder and then bit my face, breaking the skin and drawing blood. It still only seemed like a warning nip. There’s certainly a huge difference between warnings and actually biting hard. I’m pretty convinced he could bite through my finger since he had so much force when he snapped on the end of a heavy duty glove I was using to clean his cage. Hes very docile too and will climb onto my arm to get to the sunny window when it is nice out and not show any signs of aggression whatsoever so I think any big chameleon has the potential to bite hard