Chameleon sick..Weak,eyes,shut,not moving during day or eating!!!

[theelements91]

So my chameleon is not doing to well. HE seems very weak,not moving around(even during day), Eyes always closed, hadn't eaten in at least a week and half, and was de-hydrated. A lot is at fault of my own seeing as its been super crazy lately starting new business and sadly was not able to care for all the things i needed too. His uvb bulb broke a month and a half ago and kept slipping my mind. And then recently i had a power outage for nearly 5 days before it was repaired and temps oin all my cages dropped to the 60's did my best to keep everyone warm but was hard. I tried to get a generator but couldnt get my hands on one for the reptiles. I use to have a dripper but was not drinking from it so went to misting very often throughout the day and made sure he drank. Then for the week the power was out i was slacking on misting as well. Was very hectic and spent most of time on hold with power company figuring out when my power would be fixed for my 10 reptiles!!!I had a rescue chameleon years ago that had a MBD and was thinking this may be the early stages. Since he had a more sever case when i got him i never got to observe the beginning stages of it. His legs for the most part all seem well except his front left leg has a tiny wave in it on the bottom half. Now it is a very minor one so was not sure if it was just me being paranoid as im usually over cautious with my reptiles, but the more and more i look at him and watch him walk with it it seems to me like there is definitely something going on with it. I since have gotten him a new uvb light, force fed him some meal-worms w/ calcium and multivitamins , heavily misted cage and using dripper hand watered him. I also gave im a light shower just using spray bottle and a 15 minute bath in water mixed with pediatric electrolytes. He responded very well at first treatments opened one eye all the way and looked around)has failed to open other yet),took the meal-worms i helped feed him, and was slightly active at first. He is still not moving in cage though or opening eyes really. i know its not an overnight healing process but thought they were good first signs. I am pretty confident that ive got it early enough i can do something about it. I have talked to one vet but there are not many vets that specialize with chameleons in my area but am still looking. Just want some second opinions on to what everyone thinks. Is it early MBD? If its not i know he is malnourished but am really feeling like thats not just it so please let me know. I want to make sure this little guy makes it and i dont lose him at my own fault. thanks

 

[KatiLemons]

Please take him to a vet....

 

[theelements91]

i have spoken with a vet over phone but i live way in the country in texas and arent many vets that deal with reptiles. Only one i could find doesnt have experience with chameleons and was pretty far as well. Im willing to make a good drive once i can find one and take off working a day but i was asking for others opinions on what they think this might be and if its mbd, not whether i should take to a vet or not. I am quite aware he needs veterinary care but a reply to my question would be appreiated

 

[ir0k]

im sorry to hear about your cham not feeling well. I would also advise to take your cham to the vet. I hope everything works out well.
also, you don't have to give exact location. but if you told us your general area some people here might be able to direct you to a good vet in your area.


good luck

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, i have not read past the thread title and just by looking at the picture. I would guess that your chameleon has a RI. Head pointed up, throat area is large, etc...

If this is indeed a RI. This is usually a result (Not limited to one) of improper A. Waste water management. B. Enclosure with little to no air flow. C. Substrates retaining water w/little to no air flow in the cage. D. Water delivery causing aspiration. E. Improper Temps combined with any listed above.

Intended for the "expert" keepers...
This is a thread that should be stickied as a reminder to the people that wants to say glass is fine. It doesnt matter if we kept chameleons in glass before the dinosaurs ruled the earth. We used what was available then winging it with little to no information. Its a shame with screen cages now available glass is still advised and deemed suitable for the main two species available in the hobby.. Yes, some of you perfected the art of keeping chameleons in glass but for many this is a challenge.

 

[theelements91]

yes the cage did not have proper airflow but have fixed today. Does that explain all the symptons though?Shut eyes, not eatin or moving. He was dehydrated and had yellow urine but is now white since i have watered him often recently. And are you only going by the bottom picture because he was in that position because i had just sat himn in his cage on those leaves and he was hanging down for a minute after. And alos is there any other ways to tell if it is RI besides throat looking large.thanks

 

[ataraxia]

Hi, both pictures his head is elevated. There are many other symptoms but it looks like he is past most of the stages at this point. The vet may be able to see fluid on the lungs through xray. I would have this done ASAP. Best case, your vet puts your chameleon on anti biotics, you clear up any husbandry issues and pray your not to late.

Edit: A few things in here i would personally leave out and other parts need expanded on but overall it is a good read. https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/chameleons/

 

[theelements91]

Thanks.I did notice what looked like a slight build up of slime or mucus possibly in the mouth at one point. I have dealt with it in other reptiles before completely successful but only had one other chameleon so none with them. I never had any my others have a shut though like he does which was one of the things that threw me off.He doesnt open them AT ALL exepct the once when i showered and force fed him a little but he opened one eye for a minute. I do plan on making the 3 hour trip to the vet somtime early this week. but want to have some handle on whats going on because ive had vets completely waste my time with improper diagnoses and lack of knowledge. The one i found is said to be reputable but never know till i get there. Any other opinions would be great as well. thanks again

 

[ataraxia]

I completely understand. Things i would do before the trip.
1. I would make sure the vet is familiar with reptiles. Your not going to find many that are well informed with chameleons but if you can that would be best case.
2. Make sure they are set up to do xrays and can read them.
3. Have some phone numbers of other chameleon vets in the country the vet may be able to get ahold of for any questions. https://www.chameleonforums.com/area-area-country-vet-list-32880/

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

I second the RI diagnoses and the "slime" and "mucus" you observed were indications of this ailment.

 

[KatiLemons]

Can we see a picture of your setup so we can possibly pinpoint why he got the respiratory infection?

 

[theelements91]

besides temp anything i can do to help until i make to vet since it will be at least tues or wed before i can make that far of a drive

 

[ataraxia]

This will not cure it but may help...
You can remove the excess saliva from inside his mouth as often as you can throughout the day.

Give him warm humidity treatments. Does'nt really need the mist to fall on him but you can sit him at the end of you shower, close the door or curtain and turn it to hot. Allow the warm vapors to thin the mucous. I do this a couple times a day and remove excess saliva.

Hes not going to bask. Keep ambient temps in the mid 80's.

One other thing i thought about. MAke sure you have the vet show you how to administer fluids properly. Im not saying you may not know but you may want to see it first hand from a professional.

 

[theelements91]

My camera is broke on my phone i used my gf to get ones of the chameleon but shes not here now. Im sure i didn't have proper ventilation for about2 weeks also is around the temp my temps dropped to the 60s for 5 days due to power outage. It has glass doors a Mirror on the back and had wood sides lined with a pond liner. had only small vent on it. I recently cut out the sides completly with jig saw and put wire mesh and added large vent on top. big diffrence but i did this right after power was repaired and it was in the cage for about 3 weeks until i repaired it. i think my gf has some of it before and after so ill get from her tomorow and post when shes here.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

There is a mirror on the back?

If so, that is most likely causing stress and the reflecting light could be irritating his eyes.

 

[theelements91]

Came with the mirror..didnt think about that. Will take out tomorow

 

[theelements91]

So took 2:30 hour trip to the vet yesterday then 2:30 back. WORST idea ever.NOt because the vet didnt know what he was talking about but because it was the biggest rip off ever and basically said im already taking every precaution necessary and that Ive caught the mbd very early which was good and that i was doing everything i need for the respiratory infection. He gave him one oral dose of baytril(which i could have got myself or would have a tleast liked to have some to take home). He tried to do a fecal that took him 60 sec, and he wasnt able to get a good sample but didnt see parasites but wasnt sure since it wasnt good sample he said and they charged me $20 for that.Also made seem like it was included in exam and didnt tell me prices till the end.then he gave me diluted liquid calcium, saline soultion, food supplement for force feeding and couple syringes. He also volunteered to show how to feed him with syringe(which i already knew how to do but figured watching him would hurt to make sure i was right) took 30 seconds to show me and they charged me $10 for that without telling me that. I told him already had solution but he said we will just give you a little of ours(thought he meant like a sample), already had calcium, the only things i wanted really was the baytril(got enough for 2 more days and thats it and the food supplement even though i had already made my own at home but i liked it so decided to keep it. In the end it after all the stupid charges for things they didn't explain to me they charged my 70 more than i wanted. Doesn't seem like a lot but after 5 hours of driving diesel gas, the fact that it was for ******** charges, and i am very strapped on money right now so paying $70 for something i don't feel was worth it is pretty upsetting. I tried to talk to the girls up front at checkout about but were not being helpful. It was pretty busy and they had police there because someones pet rat died there so they threatened to kill everyone there with a gun. It was just an all around expensive and bad experience even though the doctor was super knowledgeable and had good convo with him. This is why i don't always agree when everyone on here just straight to you have to take him to a vet now. In my experience the vets(even the good ones) have not been very helpful except for some ADVANCED and very SERIOUS CASES. Im not saying people shouldn't take the reptiles to the vet but just that everyone doesn't need to immediately jump to saying you need to go to vet now especially when its a experienced reptile owner and that person is already doing almost every precaution necessary. I would have much rather kept doing what i was for the little guy and spent that money on an adult chameleon someone has been trying to re home before they move out of state but instead they are selling it to some high school kid that has no experience with reptile and will probably end up neglecting it since i cant afford the rehome fee or to buy it lights, plants, ect now.
*End Rant*

 

[Kath44]

I know money is tight for a lot if people but I'd happily pay $70 to make sure my Cham is gonna be ok. Something you said, for something that's not worth it has riled me a bit.
If money is tight why consider taking in another animal? When you couldn't replace a UVB for a month and a half?
I'd say your Cham was worth it, frustrating I know esp if you could get the meds yourself. But you did the right thing and I hope he picks up.
Kath.

 

[Djturna4thakidz]

It sounds like a successful vet visit to me. You could not acquire baytril on your own or do the fecal, and these are things that needed to be done. A IR, in most cases, cannot be treated in home. I would rather pay the money to have piece of mind that you are on the right path to helping your animal. There are things that you cannot treat at home and that is why people suggest taking them to a vet. If you had a different problem, we most likely would have suggested a different solution that did not involve seeing a vet but yours was not one of these.

I know it costs alot but I think you did the right thing.

Just my opinion, but you said you would have spent the money on a rescue cham. You also said you were strapped for cash. Chams are very expensive and vet bills can accumulate fast. Taking on a rescue cham can be expensive. If you dont have the funds, prob not the best idea to get more chams.

 

[theelements91]

first it wasnt just a 70 bill or i would have been fine with that. THe 70 is all the small extra charges i dont feel were necessary or requested. the fecal was not worth $20 since he did not get proper sample, i would have not paid $10 for them to syrign feed .5ml of food out of the bag they were already charging me for also. And my girlfrend works at a vet that doesnt handle reptiles which is how i could get baytril on my own and technically they can still do feces on his also( i was not worried about parasites at the moment and they didnt ask either). If he had given me more baytril it would have been ok. If he had done a proper fecal it would have been ok. They also charged me for washing him real quick when i already told them i had this morning. Its the principle that they found 9 or 10 diffrent things i didnt even want or ask for and charged me small amount till it built up.I was going there mainly for advice on how much food and medicine to give. I did get that but also had to pay for things such as the improper feces test,washing, feeding. In when you add the over$100 in gas,$70 extra and the rest of the vet bill . I spent near $300 to find out i was already doing what i needed to so to me thats not worth it. Im not ok with paying money for things i dont beileve i should pay for whether im struggling at the moment or am filthy rich like i said its the principle that i feel i was being ripped off and uunjustly charged for things. All i feel i got out of the trip really was a good conversation about different reptiles in with the vet.