Clumsy Chameleon Help!

Bmaggio

Bmaggio

New Member
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Reggie is a male veiled chameleon. This is day 3 in my care
  • Handling - He is handled everyday.
  • Feeding - Currently feeding crickets, he has had wax worms and superworms before. I've been feeding him 4 crickets everyday. (past owner was feeding 18-25 crickets everyday) gut-loading crickets with "total bites"
  • Supplements - He is given Reptivite, ReptiCal with D3 once a week.
  • Watering - Has a dripper, have been placing him in carrying container for 30min and misting the cage so he will drink. Never seen him drink yet. Ordered a BioBubble drinking fountain.
  • Fecal Description - N/A on parisite testing. But his fecal matter seems normal, except there has been very "watery" white matter. I'm assuming thats from the water he has drank?
  • History - I worry he has had many pervious owners. I have been in contact with the past 2. I don't believe he was in good care... Bailey is his most recent owner. the other was Adam, I believe Adam wasn't very nice to him.. Bailey took him in to take care of him and get him away from Adam.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - ReptiBreeze screen cage, 16"x16"x30" (he has been in this cage since the past 2 owners) I've attached pictures, the temp and humidity in the pic is right after i finished the set up. just barley turned on the lights before i put reggie in there.
    Untitled.jpg
    20170127_154408.jpg
    Untitled1.jpg
  • Lighting - UVB is Reptisun 5.0 Exo Terra Daytime heat lamp 60w. Both in double dome.
  • Temperature - basking is 80, lowest is 65. turns on at 7am off at 7pm
  • Humidity - 40% is the average, I have one live plant (pothos) and I have 3 sides of the cage covered with plastic wrap.
  • Plants - one pothos
  • Placement - very large closet. away from distractions. I feel he is very timid and skittish.
  • Location - Rock Springs, Wyoming
The gal I got him from (Bailey) took him to the vet on monday 1/23/17. because his right eye was full of puss. his left has a bump that has been there for over a month, the vet said he is very dehydrated. she wasn't worried about his left eye with the bump because is was soft. but she also said he isn't getting enough food, which seems weird considering she would feed him 18-25 crickets a day!.... I've been working on getting him hydrated. and cleaning out his right eye when it has puss coming out.

My Current concern is... he is very very clumsy, since he was picked up from Adam's house. If he seems you coming he immediately starts to run away, too busy watching you then paying attention to where he is going. Always falling. but I know he is coordinate because he sleeps by holding himself on the screen. Why is he always falling.. I've never seen a chameleon struggle this bad.. He is so worried about watching the "threat" he don't care if he gets hurt. when he hits the ground he just continues running. But once you get ahold of him he will cuddle, he lets you pet him and he falls asleep on your arms when you pet him. He has never puffed up or hissed. just wondering whats going on...
 
When a chameleon falls asleep during the day while you pet him it can be because he is so stressed out he is shutting down if he is running in fear and hurting his self id suggest you maybe stop handling him so much untill he maybe gets comfortable enough too not run away every time he see's you. He obviously dosent feel comfortable in his enclosure also he should have higher basking temp atleast 85 . You should have a mister or a spray bottle with distilled water and spray 3 to 5 times a day
 
Joseph 1233 said:
When a chameleon falls asleep during the day while you pet him it can be because he is so stressed out he is shutting down if he is running in fear and hurting his self id suggest you maybe stop handling him so much untill he maybe gets comfortable enough too not run away every time he see's you. He obviously dosent feel comfortable in his enclosure also he should have higher basking temp atleast 85 . You should have a mister or a spray bottle with distilled water and spray 3 to 5 times a day
Click to expand...
You can also mist without putting him in a container just use warm water and dont spray him directly unless he likes it i spray my guys a bit too wash out there eyes some times. And you need regular calcium without d3 every day makesure its without d3
 
Last edited:
Bmaggio said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Reggie is a male veiled chameleon. This is day 3 in my care
  • Handling - He is handled everyday.
  • Feeding - Currently feeding crickets, he has had wax worms and superworms before. I've been feeding him 4 crickets everyday. (past owner was feeding 18-25 crickets everyday) gut-loading crickets with "total bites"
  • Supplements - He is given Reptivite, ReptiCal with D3 once a week.
  • Watering - Has a dripper, have been placing him in carrying container for 30min and misting the cage so he will drink. Never seen him drink yet. Ordered a BioBubble drinking fountain.
  • Fecal Description - N/A on parisite testing. But his fecal matter seems normal, except there has been very "watery" white matter. I'm assuming thats from the water he has drank?
  • History - I worry he has had many pervious owners. I have been in contact with the past 2. I don't believe he was in good care... Bailey is his most recent owner. the other was Adam, I believe Adam wasn't very nice to him.. Bailey took him in to take care of him and get him away from Adam.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - ReptiBreeze screen cage, 16"x16"x30" (he has been in this cage since the past 2 owners) I've attached pictures, the temp and humidity in the pic is right after i finished the set up. just barley turned on the lights before i put reggie in there.View attachment 175414View attachment 175415View attachment 175416
  • Lighting - UVB is Reptisun 5.0 Exo Terra Daytime heat lamp 60w. Both in double dome.
  • Temperature - basking is 80, lowest is 65. turns on at 7am off at 7pm
  • Humidity - 40% is the average, I have one live plant (pothos) and I have 3 sides of the cage covered with plastic wrap.
  • Plants - one pothos
  • Placement - very large closet. away from distractions. I feel he is very timid and skittish.
  • Location - Rock Springs, Wyoming
The gal I got him from (Bailey) took him to the vet on monday 1/23/17. because his right eye was full of puss. his left has a bump that has been there for over a month, the vet said he is very dehydrated. she wasn't worried about his left eye with the bump because is was soft. but she also said he isn't getting enough food, which seems weird considering she would feed him 18-25 crickets a day!.... I've been working on getting him hydrated. and cleaning out his right eye when it has puss coming out.

My Current concern is... he is very very clumsy, since he was picked up from Adam's house. If he seems you coming he immediately starts to run away, too busy watching you then paying attention to where he is going. Always falling. but I know he is coordinate because he sleeps by holding himself on the screen. Why is he always falling.. I've never seen a chameleon struggle this bad.. He is so worried about watching the "threat" he don't care if he gets hurt. when he hits the ground he just continues running. But once you get ahold of him he will cuddle, he lets you pet him and he falls asleep on your arms when you pet him. He has never puffed up or hissed. just wondering whats going on...
Click to expand...
Why do you only feed him a few crickets a day ?
 
Joseph 1233 said:
And you need regular calcium without d3 every day make sure it's without d3
Click to expand...
Agreed. To elaborate:
Calcium without D3 with every feeding. Calcium with D3 every 2 weeks, and Reptivite every two weeks seems to be the recommended regime here. A misting unit might have help keep his eyes clean, although it may have been trauma induced. The misting may hydrate better too.
 
Bmaggio said:
Chameleon Info:
  • Your Chameleon - Reggie is a male veiled chameleon. This is day 3 in my care
  • Handling - He is handled everyday.
  • Feeding - Currently feeding crickets, he has had wax worms and superworms before. I've been feeding him 4 crickets everyday. (past owner was feeding 18-25 crickets everyday) gut-loading crickets with "total bites"
  • Supplements - He is given Reptivite, ReptiCal with D3 once a week.
  • Watering - Has a dripper, have been placing him in carrying container for 30min and misting the cage so he will drink. Never seen him drink yet. Ordered a BioBubble drinking fountain.
  • Fecal Description - N/A on parisite testing. But his fecal matter seems normal, except there has been very "watery" white matter. I'm assuming thats from the water he has drank?
  • History - I worry he has had many pervious owners. I have been in contact with the past 2. I don't believe he was in good care... Bailey is his most recent owner. the other was Adam, I believe Adam wasn't very nice to him.. Bailey took him in to take care of him and get him away from Adam.

Cage Info:
  • Cage Type - ReptiBreeze screen cage, 16"x16"x30" (he has been in this cage since the past 2 owners) I've attached pictures, the temp and humidity in the pic is right after i finished the set up. just barley turned on the lights before i put reggie in there.View attachment 175414View attachment 175415View attachment 175416
  • Lighting - UVB is Reptisun 5.0 Exo Terra Daytime heat lamp 60w. Both in double dome.
  • Temperature - basking is 80, lowest is 65. turns on at 7am off at 7pm
  • Humidity - 40% is the average, I have one live plant (pothos) and I have 3 sides of the cage covered with plastic wrap.
  • Plants - one pothos
  • Placement - very large closet. away from distractions. I feel he is very timid and skittish.
  • Location - Rock Springs, Wyoming
The gal I got him from (Bailey) took him to the vet on monday 1/23/17. because his right eye was full of puss. his left has a bump that has been there for over a month, the vet said he is very dehydrated. she wasn't worried about his left eye with the bump because is was soft. but she also said he isn't getting enough food, which seems weird considering she would feed him 18-25 crickets a day!.... I've been working on getting him hydrated. and cleaning out his right eye when it has puss coming out.

My Current concern is... he is very very clumsy, since he was picked up from Adam's house. If he seems you coming he immediately starts to run away, too busy watching you then paying attention to where he is going. Always falling. but I know he is coordinate because he sleeps by holding himself on the screen. Why is he always falling.. I've never seen a chameleon struggle this bad.. He is so worried about watching the "threat" he don't care if he gets hurt. when he hits the ground he just continues running. But once you get ahold of him he will cuddle, he lets you pet him and he falls asleep on your arms when you pet him. He has never puffed up or hissed. just wondering whats going on...
Click to expand...

I've just quickly scanned this but needed to comment on a few things.

Your description of him being clumsy is typical escape behavior of chameleons. They will flail, fall and thrash and be completely uncoordinated in their escape attempt. I've had them thrashing on the ground, not even able to get on their feet. This is normal behavior, albeit the behavior of an extremely stressed and terrified chameleon. Another escape/defense strategy is called "disking" when they will drop from a branch, often rolling up into a ball hence the "disc" description of the behavior. Once on the ground, they will often just lie there. I've had some pretty spooky wild caughts that were on a perch in the middle to the back of the cage who have flung themselves out of the cage door just because I opened the door as @jpowell86 will attest to. (I think he'll also attest to my my superb catch, if I do say so myself, since the cage bottom was more than four feet off the ground and a fall from 7 feet onto hard floor is not the same as that fall to the jungle floor.) You are describing normal escape behaviors.

My other concern is his eyes, his dehydration level and his stress level.

Nowhere do I see a treatment plan for his eyes. He should be on medication for those infections. I suspect the infection has originated in his sinuses. Regardless, he needs veterinary care.

You cannot hydrate a dehydrated chameleon with a dripper. I'm surprised the vet didn't give him a subcutaneous fluids--maybe she did but you didn't mention it. You need an automatic mister running practically constantly in his cage for at least a day. A dripper just doesn't cut it. He needs not only access to water but he needs to breathe in humid air. I can dehydrate my own species of chameleons just by putting them in dry air, regarless of whether th ey have a mister going around them or not. Putting him in a travel box and misting isn't good enough, period. He might have damage to his kidneys from dehydration and you are never going to get him well, but neither I nor the vet know that.

Thirdly, there is his stress level. Cuddling him will kill him. He has demonstrated that he will risk life and limb to escape you. Why would you think he will relax when you have behaved exactly as a predator does and grabbed him about the body in preparation of eating him. If you do that to a deer, they will have a total collapse and die of Capture Myopathy. Why oh why would you think what you are doing is "cuddling"?

I would find a vet who is prepared to treat his infections, get a misting system (MistKing starter costs $130 plus a few dollars more for a few things that make life easier like a tube cutter, extra mist heads, etc.), and leave him alone. He is not a poodle.
 
WAMBO said:
Thank you for your continued help to all of us. (y)
Click to expand...

Do you really think if I keep spending all this time writing the same thing over and over again it will make a difference? Others have given up the fight. My sense of doing the right thing for the animals and the owner (who really doesn't intend to do harm to them) is over riding my pessimism. But, it is tiring and frustrating to keep writing the same old thing.
 
jajeanpierre said:
Do you really think if I keep spending all this time writing the same thing over and over again it will make a difference? Others have given up the fight. My sense of doing the right thing for the animals and the owner (who really doesn't intend to do harm to them) is over riding my pessimism. But, it is tiring and frustrating to keep writing the same old thing.
Click to expand...
I'm a doctor. We called it 'continued reinforcement to achieve better compliance'. It's greatly appreciated. (y)(y)
 
jajeanpierre said:
Do you really think if I keep spending all this time writing the same thing over and over again it will make a difference? Others have given up the fight. My sense of doing the right thing for the animals and the owner (who really doesn't intend to do harm to them) is over riding my pessimism. But, it is tiring and frustrating to keep writing the same old thing.
Click to expand...
If it helps any, I do read your posts and I do also learn from them... You're not only posting to the OP but also sharing valuable information to the crowd!

You, your posts and your chameleons are appreciated.(y)
 
jajeanpierre said:
I've just quickly scanned this but needed to comment on a few things.

Your description of him being clumsy is typical escape behavior of chameleons. They will flail, fall and thrash and be completely uncoordinated in their escape attempt. I've had them thrashing on the ground, not even able to get on their feet. This is normal behavior, albeit the behavior of an extremely stressed and terrified chameleon. Another escape/defense strategy is called "disking" when they will drop from a branch, often rolling up into a ball hence the "disc" description of the behavior. Once on the ground, they will often just lie there. I've had some pretty spooky wild caughts that were on a perch in the middle to the back of the cage who have flung themselves out of the cage door just because I opened the door as @jpowell86 will attest to. (I think he'll also attest to my my superb catch, if I do say so myself, since the cage bottom was more than four feet off the ground and a fall from 7 feet onto hard floor is not the same as that fall to the jungle floor.) You are describing normal escape behaviors.

My other concern is his eyes, his dehydration level and his stress level.

Nowhere do I see a treatment plan for his eyes. He should be on medication for those infections. I suspect the infection has originated in his sinuses. Regardless, he needs veterinary care.

You cannot hydrate a dehydrated chameleon with a dripper. I'm surprised the vet didn't give him a subcutaneous fluids--maybe she did but you didn't mention it. You need an automatic mister running practically constantly in his cage for at least a day. A dripper just doesn't cut it. He needs not only access to water but he needs to breathe in humid air. I can dehydrate my own species of chameleons just by putting them in dry air, regarless of whether th ey have a mister going around them or not. Putting him in a travel box and misting isn't good enough, period. He might have damage to his kidneys from dehydration and you are never going to get him well, but neither I nor the vet know that.

Thirdly, there is his stress level. Cuddling him will kill him. He has demonstrated that he will risk life and limb to escape you. Why would you think he will relax when you have behaved exactly as a predator does and grabbed him about the body in preparation of eating him. If you do that to a deer, they will have a total collapse and die of Capture Myopathy. Why oh why would you think what you are doing is "cuddling"?

I would find a vet who is prepared to treat his infections, get a misting system (MistKing starter costs $130 plus a few dollars more for a few things that make life easier like a tube cutter, extra mist heads, etc.), and leave him alone. He is not a poodle.
Click to expand...
The vet said no treatment for his eyes because the ball he had on one was soft. She wasn't worried she said to work on him getting hydrated and watch the eyes. Flush if puss contines. But like I said. The previous owner took him and just told me what the vet said.. I forgot to add that he is misted constantly. My husband and I have opposite schedules. And so we are able to spray his cage 24/7. The dripper is not the only thing I have. I have more watering systems on there way. Once more. I've only had him got 3 days. But I can tell he has been treated poorly so I'm just trying to help him. I assumed he was relaxed because he was not puffing up or hissing at me. Once he is out of the cage he doesn't run away. I give him the chance to Rome freely when he is out. He will be on my lap and he won't try running away. He seemed to be the one who initiates the "cuddling" so I just pet him and try to make him feel safe was all. Thanks for clarification on the clumsiness. That makes sense. I've read that falling was signs of MBD so I just wanted to make sure that wasn't part of it.
 
Bmaggio said:
The vet said no treatment for his eyes because the ball he had on one was soft. She wasn't worried she said to work on him getting hydrated and watch the eyes. Flush if puss contines. But like I said. The previous owner took him and just told me what the vet said.. I forgot to add that he is misted constantly. My husband and I have opposite schedules. And so we are able to spray his cage 24/7. The dripper is not the only thing I have. I have more watering systems on there way. Once more. I've only had him got 3 days. But I can tell he has been treated poorly so I'm just trying to help him. I assumed he was relaxed because he was not puffing up or hissing at me. Once he is out of the cage he doesn't run away. I give him the chance to Rome freely when he is out. He will be on my lap and he won't try running away. He seemed to be the one who initiates the "cuddling" so I just pet him and try to make him feel safe was all. Thanks for clarification on the clumsiness. That makes sense. I've read that falling was signs of MBD so I just wanted to make sure that wasn't part of it.
Click to expand...

Here is the link to the care sheet....read it and follow it to the letter.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

There is a lot of misinformation out there on the care of chameleons but here is where you will find the most accurate.

I will say that the cuddling, is not cuddling. It is a stress response, he is giving up and shutting down. You are a predator to him, especially if you have only had him a few days, he does not associate you as comfort. And he won't. He will get to where he sees your hand as the one who brings food, but that's about it. But, closing his eyes is a stress response and so it just being still. Stress suppresses his immune system and it will not give him the chance to get better but will contribute to his failing health.

There are several things that you will need to tweak in your husbandry for him.

1) Feeding...You don't need to wean him, let him eat what he wants. He will slow himself down but always offer. Females are the ones that need to be regulated to help with clutch size. I would try and get some variety in feeders. Look through the sponsors on here and try and get a few more feeders. Silk worms are great as well as dubia and can be fed daily. Hornworms are a great treat that will help with hydration. Phoenix/Calci worms are high in calcium and will later turn into flies if left to pupate. Wax worms and butter worms are high in fat so use only as a treat. Super worms are another you can add for variety.
You will need to gut load better. Cricket crack or bug burger are great, plus you can gut load with veggies and fruit. Veilds will also eat fruits and veggies. Here is a link to good gutloads.....anything that can be used to gut load can also be fed to the cham..
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

2) Watering... That's great that you are able to mist a lot. I agree though that investing in an automatic mister is the best. I wish I had not waited so long. When that Bio Bubble comes, I would just turn it around and send it back. I had one, you have to clean it out daily or it gets slimy. and even then, the tubes can not be cleaned out well and will grow mold. They are honestly not worth it even IF he recognizes it as a water source which is iffy. I used it for a month before it started growing mold and that was even with cleaning it daily.

3)Lighting and temps.....Check your UVB bulb, if it is from the previous own it may need to be replaced. They will only last for 6 months, even though they are producing light they will no longer be giving off enough UVB. His basking temps are too low. He looks to be over 9 months. At 9 months their basking temps need to be raised to between 90-95. Just use a plain house bulb, try a 75watt and go from there until you get the right temps. He needs the right temps to be able to digest and warm up. And I just want to mention to make sure to never put a light on him at night. He needs a temp drop for digestion and metabolism and the light will disrupt his sleep. I know you didn't say you do, but I just want to cover all the bases.

You need to take him to the vet yourself. Find a GOOD vet that knows chams. He should be on meds for his eye infection. I just can not believe that a vet would not give him something if there is puss coming out. So either the previous owner is not telling you everything or you need a different vet.

I see no reason that you can't help him turn around, if you follow what you learn here. I want to encourage you to give him time. Do not try and handle him for a while, let him settle in, he has just had a lot of changes and he is freaked out.
 
And one more thing, that cage size is a little smaller than a male veiled should be in. I would suggest upgrading sometime in the near future.
 
Peachypink said:
Here is the link to the care sheet....read it and follow it to the letter.
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/caresheets/veiled/

There is a lot of misinformation out there on the care of chameleons but here is where you will find the most accurate.

I will say that the cuddling, is not cuddling. It is a stress response, he is giving up and shutting down. You are a predator to him, especially if you have only had him a few days, he does not associate you as comfort. And he won't. He will get to where he sees your hand as the one who brings food, but that's about it. But, closing his eyes is a stress response and so it just being still. Stress suppresses his immune system and it will not give him the chance to get better but will contribute to his failing health.

There are several things that you will need to tweak in your husbandry for him.

1) Feeding...You don't need to wean him, let him eat what he wants. He will slow himself down but always offer. Females are the ones that need to be regulated to help with clutch size. I would try and get some variety in feeders. Look through the sponsors on here and try and get a few more feeders. Silk worms are great as well as dubia and can be fed daily. Hornworms are a great treat that will help with hydration. Phoenix/Calci worms are high in calcium and will later turn into flies if left to pupate. Wax worms and butter worms are high in fat so use only as a treat. Super worms are another you can add for variety.
You will need to gut load better. Cricket crack or bug burger are great, plus you can gut load with veggies and fruit. Veilds will also eat fruits and veggies. Here is a link to good gutloads.....anything that can be used to gut load can also be fed to the cham..
https://www.chameleonforums.com/care/food/

2) Watering... That's great that you are able to mist a lot. I agree though that investing in an automatic mister is the best. I wish I had not waited so long. When that Bio Bubble comes, I would just turn it around and send it back. I had one, you have to clean it out daily or it gets slimy. and even then, the tubes can not be cleaned out well and will grow mold. They are honestly not worth it even IF he recognizes it as a water source which is iffy. I used it for a month before it started growing mold and that was even with cleaning it daily.

3)Lighting and temps.....Check your UVB bulb, if it is from the previous own it may need to be replaced. They will only last for 6 months, even though they are producing light they will no longer be giving off enough UVB. His basking temps are too low. He looks to be over 9 months. At 9 months their basking temps need to be raised to between 90-95. Just use a plain house bulb, try a 75watt and go from there until you get the right temps. He needs the right temps to be able to digest and warm up. And I just want to mention to make sure to never put a light on him at night. He needs a temp drop for digestion and metabolism and the light will disrupt his sleep. I know you didn't say you do, but I just want to cover all the bases.

You need to take him to the vet yourself. Find a GOOD vet that knows chams. He should be on meds for his eye infection. I just can not believe that a vet would not give him something if there is puss coming out. So either the previous owner is not telling you everything or you need a different vet.

I see no reason that you can't help him turn around, if you follow what you learn here. I want to encourage you to give him time. Do not try and handle him for a while, let him settle in, he has just had a lot of changes and he is freaked out.
Click to expand...
thank you for your help, i will be upgrading his cage. I have called the vet. she was busy and will be calling me back.
 
Bmaggio said:
thank you for your help, i will be upgrading his cage. I have called the vet. she was busy and will be calling me back.
Click to expand...

Find a new vet if that one isn't treating an active infection that might not originate in the eyes.

Why would you cut back on food? Never ever take what you read as the gospel. Not all crickets are created equal, even when sold as the same supposed size. I've had 1/8" crickets shipped to me from a big cricket farm that were closer to their usual 1/2" size. I've had 1/4" crickets that were smaller than 1/8".

You base how much you feed on the condition of the animal not on something you read somewhere. Your chameleon is not fat. He is suffering from an infection. The last thing you want to do is stress him even more than you already are (with your misguided "cuddling") by not giving him enough nutrition.
 
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