Color and Growth Concerns

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

So this is my first time on these forums and I wanted to see if I could get a few questions answered.

• Your Chameleon - Male, Veiled chameleon, approximately 6 months according to the guy at the pet store. In my care for 2 months
• Handling - 1-3 times per week
• Feeding - 5-8 crickets per day/every other day. He also occasionally will get mealworms (but I hope to switch him to super worms as soon as he can handle them) We tried dubias but he does not approve of them. Feeders are gut loaded with home made wet and dry gut load. As well as Flukers orange cubes and fruit + veg rotated every day or so. I also offer a variety of fruit and veg raw to him. (He loves to eat the live umbrella tree in his cage.)
• Supplements - I was giving him Repti-cal phosphorus free cal w/D3 once a week, but looking into it more I know that is waaay to much D3. I am switching over to Repti-cal w/o D3 2-3 times a week and also adding in a multivitamin 2-3 times a month. Will give cal. w/D3 2-3 times per month.
• Watering - I have a monsoon mister running about 3 times per day for about a minute. I don't see him drink often, but he is completely hydrated.
• Fecal Description - He has larger amounts of poop every few days. Brownish-grey in coloration with a white urate that has a small bit of orange at the end. He has not been tested for parasites as far as I know.
• History - Came from Petco. I know that is not the best choice but he was so energetic and healthy when I saw him. (I am apprehensive of buying Chams online.)

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Glass/screen combo 18x18x38.
• Lighting - Repti-sun T5 LED UVB hood with a 100 wat basking bulb and ceramic heater.
• Temperature - About 70F at the floor and about 85-90F at basking spot. At night it gets down (at the lowest) to 60F. I measure everything with a digital thermometer/hydrometer.
• Humidity - Humidity is about 50%-70% I have a bioactive substrate at the bottom of his cage to maintain humidity levels. I measure everything with a digital hydrometer/thermometer.
• Plants - Schefflera arboricola, Dracaena fragrans, and Philodendron cordatum.
• Placement - He lives in my room, which is low traffic, and quiet. His cage is also in the warmer area of my room because I am in the basement. His cage is currently on the floor, but I will be moving it up onto a table ASAP.
• Location - I don't feel comfortable giving this information, however, I will say that I am in a cooler and dryer area of the US. (Hence the half glass cage)

So now that I have that out of the way... My two main concerns are his color and his size. For about the past 14 days he has a rather grey-brown appearance. I recently moved him into his new cage, and thats when it started. Other than this his small size he looks normal and active. He loves exploring his cage and I actually have to bribe him with a cricket to get him out. (Don't worry, if he decides that he would rather stay in his cage I always let him back in. I mainly to this so I can weigh him or take him outside for some natural sun.) Also, regarding his small size, I got him when he was supposedly 4 months. But since I got him he really hasn't grown much. He currently weighs 31.7 grams. And compared to other 6 month old veiled males on the internet, he is only about half the size he should be. I can post pictures if further visuals are needed, but I just need a bit of help figuring out what is wrong.

 

[Jhr226]

So this is my first time on these forums and I wanted to see if I could get a few questions answered.

• Your Chameleon - Male, Veiled chameleon, approximately 6 months according to the guy at the pet store. In my care for 2 months
• Handling - 1-3 times per week
• Feeding - 5-8 crickets per day/every other day. He also occasionally will get mealworms (but I hope to switch him to super worms as soon as he can handle them) We tried dubias but he does not approve of them. Feeders are gut loaded with home made wet and dry gut load. As well as Flukers orange cubes and fruit + veg rotated every day or so. I also offer a variety of fruit and veg raw to him. (He loves to eat the live umbrella tree in his cage.)
• Supplements - I was giving him Repti-cal phosphorus free cal w/D3 once a week, but looking into it more I know that is waaay to much D3. I am switching over to Repti-cal w/o D3 2-3 times a week and also adding in a multivitamin 2-3 times a month. Will give cal. w/D3 2-3 times per month.
• Watering - I have a monsoon mister running about 3 times per day for about a minute. I don't see him drink often, but he is completely hydrated.
• Fecal Description - He has larger amounts of poop every few days. Brownish-grey in coloration with a white urate that has a small bit of orange at the end. He has not been tested for parasites as far as I know.
• History - Came from Petco. I know that is not the best choice but he was so energetic and healthy when I saw him. (I am apprehensive of buying Chams online.)

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - Glass/screen combo 18x18x38.
• Lighting - Repti-sun T5 LED UVB hood with a 100 wat basking bulb and ceramic heater.
• Temperature - About 70F at the floor and about 85-90F at basking spot. At night it gets down (at the lowest) to 60F. I measure everything with a digital thermometer/hydrometer.
• Humidity - Humidity is about 50%-70% I have a bioactive substrate at the bottom of his cage to maintain humidity levels. I measure everything with a digital hydrometer/thermometer.
• Plants - Schefflera arboricola, Dracaena fragrans, and Philodendron cordatum.
• Placement - He lives in my room, which is low traffic, and quiet. His cage is also in the warmer area of my room because I am in the basement. His cage is currently on the floor, but I will be moving it up onto a table ASAP.
• Location - I don't feel comfortable giving this information, however, I will say that I am in a cooler and dryer area of the US. (Hence the half glass cage)

So now that I have that out of the way... My two main concerns are his color and his size. For about the past 14 days he has a rather grey-brown appearance. I recently moved him into his new cage, and thats when it started. Other than this his small size he looks normal and active. He loves exploring his cage and I actually have to bribe him with a cricket to get him out. (Don't worry, if he decides that he would rather stay in his cage I always let him back in. I mainly to this so I can weigh him or take him outside for some natural sun.) Also, regarding his small size, I got him when he was supposedly 4 months. But since I got him he really hasn't grown much. He currently weighs 31.7 grams. And compared to other 6 month old veiled males on the internet, he is only about half the size he should be. I can post pictures if further visuals are needed, but I just need a bit of help figuring out what is wrong.

Maybe he's a bit stressed? I know they turn darker to suck up more heat also that could be a reason. Hopefully someone with more chameleon experience will be able to help. Hope everything goes well

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

Maybe he's a bit stressed? I know they turn darker to suck up more heat also that could be a reason. Hopefully someone with more chameleon experience will be able to help. Hope everything goes well

Thank you! I hope so too. I think it may have something to do with the fact that his cage is lower to the ground. Maybe he is trying to be more camouflaged? I do think I can rule out the heat thing. Though maybe I'll try another thermometer just to double check.

 

[Jhr226]

Thank you! I hope so too. I think it may have something to do with the fact that his cage is lower to the ground. Maybe he is trying to be more camouflaged? I do think I can rule out the heat thing. Though maybe I'll try another thermometer just to double check.

That could be a factor , I know they prefer to be higher so maybe he's stressed and still getting used to being lower? I think as long as he is eating and he isn't showing any signs that he's ill then not to worry as much but it would be good to just monitor him for a few more days just to be safe

 

[kinyonga]

• You said... You feed "5-8 crickets per day/every other day. He also occasionally will get mealworms (but I hope to switch him to super worms as soon as he can handle them) We tried dubias but he does not approve of them"... What size crickets are you usibng.? If you're not feeding him the right size crickets or not enough he won't grow.
• .you said..." I was giving him Repti-cal phosphorus free cal w/D3 once a week, but looking into it more I know that is waaay to much D3. I am switching over to Repti-cal w/o D3 2-3 times a week and also adding in a multivitamin 2-3 times a month. Will give cal. w/D3 2-3 times per month" ....it's recommended that you dust at almost every feeding with a phosphorous-free calcium powder and twice a month with a vitamin powder and twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder.
• I would also recommend you use a dripper in addition to the mistings.

 

[hopps31]

You can get super small superworms, I have fed them to my Veiled since he was 3 months old. Also variety is key, they love all sorts of different things, like blue bottle flies, BSFL, silkworms, hornworms etc. also don't give up on the dubia they are great feeders, just add some in with the crickets and he should "accidentally" get a dubia when he goes for a cricket if you are cup feeding. If not cup feeding free feed the dubia they sometimes like them on the move! Also in my opinion his coloring is from moving him into a new enclosure it may take time for him to adjust. Also I would not hold him until he has adjusted more to his new enclosure and he is eating and growing successfully. If you want to get him used to you try just hand feeding for now, you will know how much he is eating and you will gain his trust without the stress of holding him!

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

• You said... You feed "5-8 crickets per day/every other day. He also occasionally will get mealworms (but I hope to switch him to super worms as soon as he can handle them) We tried dubias but he does not approve of them"... What size crickets are you usibng.? If you're not feeding him the right size crickets or not enough he won't grow.
• .you said..." I was giving him Repti-cal phosphorus free cal w/D3 once a week, but looking into it more I know that is waaay to much D3. I am switching over to Repti-cal w/o D3 2-3 times a week and also adding in a multivitamin 2-3 times a month. Will give cal. w/D3 2-3 times per month" ....it's recommended that you dust at almost every feeding with a phosphorous-free calcium powder and twice a month with a vitamin powder and twice a month with a phosphorous-free calcium/D3 powder.
• I would also recommend you use a dripper in addition to the mistings.

I have been feeding mostly 1/2" banded crickets. I did take into account that I might be feeding too little, so I have increased the amount of crickets per feeding this month. I will also give him your recommended dosage of sups. He is my first chameleon, so I found supplementation quite daunting. I will also see about getting my hands on a dripper.

 

[hopps31]

I have been feeding mostly 1/2" banded crickets. I did take into account that I might be feeding too little, so I have increased the amount of crickets per feeding this month. I will also give him your recommended dosage of sups. He is my first chameleon, so I found supplementation quite daunting. I will also see about getting my hands on a dripper.

Are you cup feeding or free ranging? I find the supplements stay much better on crickets when cup feeding as it gets wiped off through out the enclosure plus you can see just how much they are eating for peace of mind. Plus there are always ones that escape so they still can enjoy the hunt

 

[kinyonga]

When dusting ...don't make the crickets look like ghosts.

 

[hopps31]

When dusting ...don't make the crickets look like ghosts.

Yes, great tip!!

 

[Jhr226]

When dusting ...don't make the crickets look like ghosts.

I hate it when the dust goes everywhere gotta cut back on the amount of that stuff

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

You can get super small superworms, I have fed them to my Veiled since he was 3 months old. Also variety is key, they love all sorts of different things, like blue bottle flies, BSFL, silkworms, hornworms etc. also don't give up on the dubia they are great feeders, just add some in with the crickets and he should "accidentally" get a dubia when he goes for a cricket if you are cup feeding. If not cup feeding free feed the dubia they sometimes like them on the move! Also in my opinion his coloring is from moving him into a new enclosure it may take time for him to adjust. Also I would not hold him until he has adjusted more to his new enclosure and he is eating and growing successfully. If you want to get him used to you try just hand feeding for now, you will know how much he is eating and you will gain his trust without the stress of holding him!

I did try hornworms for a while, but most of them out grew him before he could eat them. I am curious to know where you would get small superworms. Do you have any tips on containing the flies?? I was going to get some, but my parents convinced me that I'd let them all loose and we would have an infestation. Also, I have hand fed him since he moved into his new cage. He will immediately take from my hand if I offer it. I did try the cup thing. I put two mealworms in with tons of dubias and he still managed to get the mealworm and literally SPIT out the dubia. Don't worry about me giving up on them though, I have a colony up and running and I wouldn't let it go to waste! Do you think that adding more variety will help his growth?? It is worth mentioning that he turns green when he is out of his cage, but usually will still prefer being inside. I will minimize the handling to 0-1 per week till he adjusts a bit more.

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

I did try hornworms for a while, but most of them out grew him before he could eat them. I am curious to know where you would get small superworms. Do you have any tips on containing the flies?? I was going to get some, but my parents convinced me that I'd let them all loose and we would have an infestation. Also, I have hand fed him since he moved into his new cage. He will immediately take from my hand if I offer it. I did try the cup thing. I put two mealworms in with tons of dubias and he still managed to get the mealworm and literally SPIT out the dubia. Don't worry about me giving up on them though, I have a colony up and running and I wouldn't let it go to waste! Do you think that adding more variety will help his growth?? It is worth mentioning that he turns green when he is out of his cage, but usually will still prefer being inside. I will minimize the handling to 0-1 per week till he adjusts a bit more.

I try to move my hand around the cage when feeding so he can get some enrichment. I will also put the crickets on the screen so he has to reach up and climb to them.

 

[hopps31]

I did try hornworms for a while, but most of them out grew him before he could eat them. I am curious to know where you would get small superworms. Do you have any tips on containing the flies?? I was going to get some, but my parents convinced me that I'd let them all loose and we would have an infestation. Also, I have hand fed him since he moved into his new cage. He will immediately take from my hand if I offer it. I did try the cup thing. I put two mealworms in with tons of dubias and he still managed to get the mealworm and literally SPIT out the dubia. Don't worry about me giving up on them though, I have a colony up and running and I wouldn't let it go to waste! Do you think that adding more variety will help his growth?? It is worth mentioning that he turns green when he is out of his cage, but usually will still prefer being inside. I will minimize the handling to 0-1 per week till he adjusts a bit more.

I had that problem with hornworms also, just a tip the cooler you keep them the slower they grow but they still grow fast. I order all my feeders from rainbowmealworms.com they are so great. They have super fast shipping and I have never had a problem with a feeder from them. The BSFL are a weird dumb fly they are not like the fly infestation you would think of, if one got lose you could definitely find and kill it with no problems, though my guy snatches them up so fast they have no chance I do find dubia to be a more stubborn feeder in general for chams as the movement is just not there, but if you can get him eating them and more of a variety he should bulk up. Also make sure he is eating every day and offering him more variety and quantity should help, the little ones need a lot more to grow!

 

[hopps31]

Also just another quick tip I found is they like smaller feeders then you would think, even my big guy likes a smaller cricket then large, so I just offer a few more of the smaller ones, not teeny tiny but just maybe one size smaller. It may be an individual thing but it works well for my guys!

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

I had that problem with hornworms also, just a tip the cooler you keep them the slower they grow but they still grow fast. I order all my feeders from rainbowmealworms.com they are so great. They have super fast shipping and I have never had a problem with a feeder from them. The BSFL are a weird dumb fly they are not like the fly infestation you would think of, if one got lose you could definitely find and kill it with no problems, though my guy snatches them up so fast they have no chance I do find dubia to be a more stubborn feeder in general for chams as the movement is just not there, but if you can get him eating them and more of a variety he should bulk up. Also make sure he is eating every day and offering him more variety and quantity should help, the little ones need a lot more to grow!

Thank you so much!! I really appreciate the help!! I will definitely try ordering from rainbow feeders, and increasing variety. Do you have a recommended dripper that would be a bit more aesthetic? If not thats fine, but I just want to make sure. I love my little guy to death and want him to have the best possible care! Do you think I need anything else??

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

Also just another quick tip I found is they like smaller feeders then you would think, even my big guy likes a smaller cricket then large, so I just offer a few more of the smaller ones, not teeny tiny but just maybe one size smaller. It may be an individual thing but it works well for my guys!

Ok! I finally have some egg-action with my cricket breeding box so I will have some smaller feeders in a few weeks.

 

[hopps31]

That is awesome you are breeding crickets, I tried but I can't stand the chirping sound and unfortunately with the Maine winters I can't keep them outside. So now I just buy like 1000 of them every month or so. Well honestly I don't have a dripper, I could never find one that worked and my homemade one was a joke too. I have the bio bubble fountain, I really like it. You have to be deligent about cleaning it every week so no mold will form but it blends well and my guys like to drink from it. You can see it in the picture on the left hand side, right near the food cup. I also have the monsoon but I hand mist as well so I can make sure they are drinking. I was thinking for the supplements if you dust every time without d3, and pick twice a month, mine is the 1st and 15th you can get reptivite with d3 and that will cover your vitamins and d3 in one. Once you get a schedule going it is much easier. I just bought this https://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/rep-cal-cricket-shaker# and it works great at getting everything covered, it works much better than a baggie!

 

[LittleVeiledExplorer]

That is awesome you are breeding crickets, I tried but I can't stand the chirping sound and unfortunately with the Maine winters I can't keep them outside. So now I just buy like 1000 of them every month or so. Well honestly I don't have a dripper, I could never find one that worked and my homemade one was a joke too. I have the bio bubble fountain, I really like it. You have to be deligent about cleaning it every week so no mold will form but it blends well and my guys like to drink from it. You can see it in the picture on the left hand side, right near the food cup. I also have the monsoon but I hand mist as well so I can make sure they are drinking. I was thinking for the supplements if you dust every time without d3, and pick twice a month, mine is the 1st and 15th you can get reptivite with d3 and that will cover your vitamins and d3 in one. Once you get a schedule going it is much easier. I just bought this https://m.petco.com/shop/en/petcostore/product/rep-cal-cricket-shaker# and it works great at getting everything covered, it works much better than a baggie!
View attachment 190626

Ok great! I looked at the bio-bubler before and wasn't sure if it would be something that would harbor too much bacteria even with daily changes like a waterfall. I can definitely handle 1-2 a week changes. Thank you for the supplement info. I will check the cricket duster next time I make it up to Petco. (By the way, beautiful cage! I love all of the plants )

 

[kinyonga]

All you need for a dripper is a deli cup with a tiny hole in the bottom of it so it drips at the rate of one or two drips per second.