Beautiful! Are these yours? I don't see anything common looking about them. Quite a stunning little species IMO.
Common chameleon....
- Thread starter kinyonga
- Start date
jurajlzvc
Established Member
No, wild ones from Malta. They are not legal to keep in captivity in Europe.
You said..."IDK, it's got quite a range outside of Europe (Middle East, N. Africa...). And if they're relatively fecund and easy to breed, I would think they'd be more popular—unless it's a low demand or desirability issue. Definitely not among the "Big 3" (Veiled, Panther & Jackson's) but IDK if they're in the top 5 or even top 10... 
"... They are not easy to get to reproduce. They have to be brumated. It might also be partly a desirability issue in that they aren't as colourful as veileds or panthers so the average person who wants a pet chameleon wouldn't likely look at them.
https://www.guidememalta.com/en/8-interesting-facts-about-the-mediterranean-chameleon
"In Malta, the chameleon is protected. Handling a chameleon for reasons that are not purely scientific is illegal. To keep it as a pet, to sell it, to export it or to kill it is illegal. Please, protect these lovely creatures so that they can continue to prosper!"
https://archipelago.gr/en/greek-mediterranean-chameleon-lives-samos/
"It is a protected species according to Greek and European legislation, as well as international conventions".
You said..."Even goggling Chamaeleo chamaeleon for sale, I don't find any on the first page (except for some art on Etsy, but no live critters)."...they are to imported except for the odd time by "accident" usually.
https://era.org.mt/en/Documents/BioSnippet_20-Mediterranean_Chameleon.pdf
"The chameleon is legally protected in the Maltese Islands, and its disturbance, keeping, killing, sale or trade are prohibited".
https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/bitstream/123456789/18201/1/Chameleons in Gozo.pdf
"The Environment Protection Act and the Reptiles (Protection) Regulations of 1992, lists the Chamaeleo chamaeleo as one of the species to protect.
Handling a chameleon for reasons that are not purely scientific is in fact illegal. To keep it as a pet, to sell it, to export it or to kill it is illegal, yet little is known about these directives. School children, farmers and nature enthusiasts that encounter a chameleon will often handle it and displace it to other areas of the island (or possibly to their garden).
In Andalucia in Spain, twenty-seven areas have been designated to protect the species. Six in the area of Malaga, eleven in Cadiz and ten in Huelva. In Greece the chameleon is protected and included in the “rare” species of threatened species.
In Malta too, the chameleon is protected. Yet, despite the Environment Protection Act, little is done to really protect this animal."
"You asked..."Was it difficult to find or obtain yours?"...one shipment came in in 1994 (Ithink) to the place I dealt with....maybe 20 of them...not in the best of shape. I got to see them all because I was asked to sex them for the person who imported them. I picked out 2.3."
They came in a couple of months before egglaying season....so they were already consitioned to go (they have to be brumated in order to produce fertile eggs)....so they are not easy to breed....but the eggs are not hard to hatch. They do retain sperm so you get a smaller clutch the next year seemingly without brumation them.
I think mine might have come from Morocco.
"... They are not easy to get to reproduce. They have to be brumated. It might also be partly a desirability issue in that they aren't as colourful as veileds or panthers so the average person who wants a pet chameleon wouldn't likely look at them.https://www.guidememalta.com/en/8-interesting-facts-about-the-mediterranean-chameleon
"In Malta, the chameleon is protected. Handling a chameleon for reasons that are not purely scientific is illegal. To keep it as a pet, to sell it, to export it or to kill it is illegal. Please, protect these lovely creatures so that they can continue to prosper!"
https://archipelago.gr/en/greek-mediterranean-chameleon-lives-samos/
"It is a protected species according to Greek and European legislation, as well as international conventions".
You said..."Even goggling Chamaeleo chamaeleon for sale, I don't find any on the first page (except for some art on Etsy, but no live critters)."...they are to imported except for the odd time by "accident" usually.
https://era.org.mt/en/Documents/BioSnippet_20-Mediterranean_Chameleon.pdf
"The chameleon is legally protected in the Maltese Islands, and its disturbance, keeping, killing, sale or trade are prohibited".
https://www.um.edu.mt/library/oar/bitstream/123456789/18201/1/Chameleons in Gozo.pdf
"The Environment Protection Act and the Reptiles (Protection) Regulations of 1992, lists the Chamaeleo chamaeleo as one of the species to protect.
Handling a chameleon for reasons that are not purely scientific is in fact illegal. To keep it as a pet, to sell it, to export it or to kill it is illegal, yet little is known about these directives. School children, farmers and nature enthusiasts that encounter a chameleon will often handle it and displace it to other areas of the island (or possibly to their garden).
In Andalucia in Spain, twenty-seven areas have been designated to protect the species. Six in the area of Malaga, eleven in Cadiz and ten in Huelva. In Greece the chameleon is protected and included in the “rare” species of threatened species.
In Malta too, the chameleon is protected. Yet, despite the Environment Protection Act, little is done to really protect this animal."
"You asked..."Was it difficult to find or obtain yours?"...one shipment came in in 1994 (Ithink) to the place I dealt with....maybe 20 of them...not in the best of shape. I got to see them all because I was asked to sex them for the person who imported them. I picked out 2.3."
They came in a couple of months before egglaying season....so they were already consitioned to go (they have to be brumated in order to produce fertile eggs)....so they are not easy to breed....but the eggs are not hard to hatch. They do retain sperm so you get a smaller clutch the next year seemingly without brumation them.
I think mine might have come from Morocco.
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PabloTheCham
Chameleon Enthusiast
People make a big deal about a cham's branch being shook, but a cham fearing for his life because of a cat is not an issue apparently...
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
I would guess (I think I would actually guarantee) that @kinyonga would never do that to any chameleon, but the video does show the wide range of colors that these chameleons can make
i see beautiful colors from super angry panthers every day, that are just as mad about the people handling them as that common Cham in that video feels about that cat
You said..."I would guess (I think I would actually guarantee) that @kinyonga would never do that to any chameleon, but the video does show the wide range of colors that these chameleons can make"... I certainly would not do that...but as you said it did show its colors.
You said..."i see beautiful colors from super angry panthers every day, that are just as mad about the people handling them as that common Cham in that video feels about that cat"...stress behaviour is common in all animals I know of. It's just hard to know what puts them over the top....and it can in chameleons.
You said..."i see beautiful colors from super angry panthers every day, that are just as mad about the people handling them as that common Cham in that video feels about that cat"...stress behaviour is common in all animals I know of. It's just hard to know what puts them over the top....and it can in chameleons.
DocZ
Chameleon Enthusiast
Good point
Chameleon import data...old...
http://www.skypoint.com/members/mikefry/imports.html
http://www.skypoint.com/members/mikefry/imports.html
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
Fair enough.
For all I knew, the import/export restrictions may not have had much effect on the pet trade. It's been illegal to export bearded dragons from Australia since the '60s, yet there's no shortage of them since the pet trade has bred them outside of Australia for decades. I didn't know if there might be similar populations of common chameleons in some places that grandfathered the restrictions, as with the dragons.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think the question of why we don't see more of them kept as pets has been answered, yet I still can't help but wonder if private breeders might not actually help preserve the species. OTOH, that's not working for other endangered species, e.g. Sungazers, Siberian tigers.
Sad.
Sad.
@Klyde O'Scope said.."wonder if private breeders might not actually help preserve the species"...so if they did, where are the ones produced going to live? In zoos? Many of the ones going extinct are due to loss of habit is and maybe climate changes, etc.
I've seen our zoo produce certain critters to put back into environments that suffered temporary losses and it's worked....but they have to have tome where to go if they are saved sadly.
I've seen our zoo produce certain critters to put back into environments that suffered temporary losses and it's worked....but they have to have tome where to go if they are saved sadly.
Klyde O'Scope
Chameleon Enthusiast
I was thinking some would go to zoos, some released back into their environments (those environments where they have been over-harvested or poached), and some kept within the pet trade. By "pet trade" in this sense, I mean serious breeders who would adhere to ethics & standards to preserve the species, rather than those trying to breed and capitalize on morphs & "designer" chams.