Considering rescuing a baby vieled from the pet store this week...

[MCSEB]

As the title of the topic states, I am planning on rescuing a very under-nourished veiled from a nearby petstore this week. It' eyes are starting to look sunken, and it's quite thin, to the point you can almost see the entirety of the ribcage. The veiled is roughly 3 months old at most, judging by the size (it's the same size if not smaller than Marimo, who is a 4 month old ellioti - For those unfamilliar with the species, they are small to begin with). He/She only costs 29€ and I have no idea what happened to it's siblings... I do have a few questions before I do decide on it.

First off, what are the temperature and humidity requirements of a veiled that's that young? From what I've read, 26 - 28°C seems to be the ambient daytime range for adults, is this the same for really young chameleons?

Another question: Would I be biting off more than I can chew at the moment with this little guy? I'm not sure how bad the condition really is, but it makes me upset every time I go there... (I probably shouldn't go there, but I am hoping they will eventually get an ellioti in). What sort of things should I look out for?

Also, what size of terrarium would I be looking at for the first couple of months of it's life? I Know veileds need really large terrariums, but I can only afford a small one this month or next. Come summer I will be able to afford something bigger (well at least when he/she got bigger, it would certainly be at the top of my list of things to get!). Preferably in cm But I can manage with inches ^^

Lastly, and probably a really dumb question, but he/she wouldn't be able to "bunk" with my 4 month old ellioti for a couple of weeks due to temperature differences and the general temperaments of the chameleons in question, correct? Marimo has a fairly large terrarium, and both would be the same size, but I am really unsure. I don't know chameleons 100% and while part of me says "it might work, they're both the same size and babies" the other part says "chameleons are territorial, and you have no idea at what age they are aggressive. Plus the new one might be sick, and then what!"

Thanks in advance for any and all help

Hi! Sorry but I can't answer every question right now because I myself don't know some of the answers. What I could say is, yes rescue him!! It's better to give it a chance than letting him suffer over there. Hey I've read some threads here where people bought them from a pet supermarket looking terrible and they saved their lives. Now they are very healthy. Imagine the great feeling you'd get after helping him. I would say try to take him to a vet and see what the vet tells you. A hatchling-3 month old cham should be in 74-76F. A lamp usually isn't required. A 3 month to 5 month 76-78F. Lamp also not required. Their basking spot should be 95F during the daytime and at night drop 10-15F. Make sure the humidity levels are 50%. Mist the plants because that helps you keep the humidity up. When it comes to misting, make sure you mist about 4 to 5 times a day for 2-3 minutes. A small cage is good for now. Try to work for a 24x24x48' cage. If not then a 18x18x36' would work too until you could afford the 24x24x48'. I hope this helps a little. Good luck with everything!

 

[Ferrah88]

I snapped a photo of her, but like all chameleons, she doesn't like them at all. You can't really see her ribs, as they show when she's relaxed, but you can see how thin her hips are... I don't know if that's normal for young chameleons, but to me it looks fairly bad. The thinness of her arms doesn't show as much in this picture. I suppose if you imagine that she's puffed out as big as she can get, you can get an idea....

(Sorry for the quality, phone cameras you know )

 

[Kate]

Love the pic. She doesn't look at deaths door. It look like you will have something to work with.good luck she is very pretty.

 

[Ferrah88]

Love the pic. She doesn't look at deaths door. It look like you will have something to work with.good luck she is very pretty.

Yes, she's still fairly lively. Although she doesn't move around much yet. She ate yesterday and today though, but only from my fingers. Her tongue keeps getting slightly faster, but it still flops out of her mouth most of the time.

Also, what could be reasons as to why she's closing her eyes? I'm certain it's not the light, as I did temporarily put the ellioti's lights on her cage (He was hanging out on the big ficus tree we have) and she still kept closing her eyes. Are there other possible reasons for this behaviour? I was searching on the forums, but only really found lighting answers.

 

[Chameleonic]

Poor baby looks so very very thin. She seems uninjured though and life means there is hope. It appears that not enough food has been the major problem. With now getting proper care and enough food she maybe will do very well. i think it would be best to give her not too much food to start with. Poor baby is in "starvation mode".

 

[Ferrah88]

Poor baby looks so very very thin. She seems uninjured though and life means there is hope. It appears that not enough food has been the major problem. With now getting proper care and enough food she maybe will do very well. i think it would be best to give her not too much food to start with. Poor baby is in "starvation mode".

Well, watching her try and eat the grasshopper that was as long as she is... I would say she is really hungry. I gave her a couple of flies yesterday (around 5) and today (same amount). The flies are fairly small, and not really gutloaded all that well (Still working on that). Today she only ate two of them though, and I'm hoping she will eat a couple more. But she is starting to shed (there was a piece hanging off her eye yesterday. She didn't care though, as she still ate, which was odd.) so that might be why she's not inclined to eat today?

Either way, I'm glad we got her. My husband is all over her, and sits in front of the terrarium at times to make sure she's doing all right. (Temps, humidity, etc). Still worried about her closing her eyes however...

 

[Chameleonic]

I think that she didn't have good humidity at the pet store. Maybe this could be something connected to the eye?
It is good she is eating something. Maybe the shedding is causing not eating so much. I hope she can be ok

 

[dom1959]

good job by you guys to rescue this cham!
she will be in my prayers!

here is to hoping that you are the people
to get her through her journey!

 

[Ferrah88]

I think that she didn't have good humidity at the pet store. Maybe this could be something connected to the eye?
It is good she is eating something. Maybe the shedding is causing not eating so much. I hope she can be ok

Might be. Her eyes were much more sunken yesterday. Today they seem almost normal, and I have been misting more frequently than I would normally (Although obviously not too much, and I do let the plants dry before doing so again). She has her eyes open again, so I'm going to cross my fingers that it's just the low humidity she was in!

good job by you guys to rescue this cham!
she will be in my prayers!

here is to hoping that you are the people
to get her through her journey!

Thank you She will be as cared for to the best of our abilities! She's already owned herself a place in our family, and we will be sad if anything happens to her. I will certainly keep everyone posted of her progress - should anything turn up, I know where I can ask for reliable answers!

 

[Kate]

I can't be sure but I think because she is half starved and probably dehydrated she will not be feeling top notch. Add in a new environment and she probably is suffering some degree of stress. Give her time and lots of places to hide also loads of TLC and hopefully she will come good.

 

[Ferrah88]

Snapped two more shortly after she drank for the first time (And right before lights out). She was more relaxed when I took these!

Now all that we can do is slowly get some meat on her bones! But she does show the will to live, and that's what's important, right?

 

[tony19]

Im vary glad you got him i think your the right person to take care of this cham... you sound like a avry caring cham owner.......he looks a lot better now then you were saying earlier. im glad the pet store isn't going o be getting any more babies in..... to many times i walk in to a pet store and they get in over there heads with pets like lizards...especailly chams and snakes....i really hope you keep everyone up to date with your new friend.

 

[MCSEB]

Snapped two more shortly after she drank for the first time (And right before lights out). She was more relaxed when I took these!

Now all that we can do is slowly get some meat on her bones! But she does show the will to live, and that's what's important, right?

Hey again Ferrah!
She's a beauty. Go for it and rescue her!

 

[tony19]

Wow that poor little guy is so thin.. just be careful your not feeding him to much at a time right now... your right you do gotta put meet on those bones.....thats great that shes eating and wanting to live..

 

[Ferrah88]

A little update:

Today she drank a bit off of a leaf, and then wanted to reach the source of the dripping cup (Which was falling through the screen). I allowed her to use my finger as a temporary branch which she weakly climbed and drank for quite a while. She seemed to enjoy the lukewarm water! Her eyes are also starting to look less sunken (Her urates were not white either. I'm hoping after she's had some more to drink, they will start getting better).

The one thing I am worried about, is that she doesn't seem to want to eat anything today. I'm not sure if this is normal for a starved and dehydrated chameleon, but it does worry me a bit. She's also spending a lot of time under her lights, not moving around much and closing her eyes most of the time. Could this also be because of the dehydration? (Her colours at the moment are fairly dark splotches on light green, if it helps any. Perhaps she is still slightly stressed from the whole ordeal until now.) I hope she manages to eat something tomorrow. I left a couple of flies in there for her, just in case.

As a whole, she looks a TAD livelier. Her eyes have a bit more spark to them, if only a minuscule amount.

 

[tony19]

A little update:

Today she drank a bit off of a leaf, and then wanted to reach the source of the dripping cup (Which was falling through the screen). I allowed her to use my finger as a temporary branch which she weakly climbed and drank for quite a while. She seemed to enjoy the lukewarm water! Her eyes are also starting to look less sunken (Her urates were not white either. I'm hoping after she's had some more to drink, they will start getting better).

The one thing I am worried about, is that she doesn't seem to want to eat anything today. I'm not sure if this is normal for a starved and dehydrated chameleon, but it does worry me a bit. She's also spending a lot of time under her lights, not moving around much and closing her eyes most of the time. Could this also be because of the dehydration? (Her colours at the moment are fairly dark splotches on light green, if it helps any. Perhaps she is still slightly stressed from the whole ordeal until now.) I hope she manages to eat something tomorrow. I left a couple of flies in there for her, just in case.

As a whole, she looks a TAD livelier. Her eyes have a bit more spark to them, if only a minuscule amount.

glad to see shes at least drinking.... i know sometimes they take awhile to get used to there surroundings and that might have something to do with her not eating lot.... about the food mabe she still cant catch the flies. i know you were saying before that she kept missing them. have you tried crickets or other feeders... also have you tried hand feeding her..... over all she sounds like shes getting lot better then when you first got her....but hopefully someone with more experience will be ble o tell you more....

 

[Ferrah88]

glad to see shes at least drinking.... i know sometimes they take awhile to get used to there surroundings and that might have something to do with her not eating lot.... about the food mabe she still cant catch the flies. i know you were saying before that she kept missing them. have you tried crickets or other feeders... also have you tried hand feeding her..... over all she sounds like shes getting lot better then when you first got her....but hopefully someone with more experience will be ble o tell you more....

I have the flies in a wide cup-like-container where I dusted the sides so they can't climb out. They're non-flying ones, so they can't just fly out either. I tried both house crickets and some other, darker kind. She's not having any of it! That being said, I do hand feed her... she's too weak to catch things properly on her own. I have just been trying every now and then over the course of the day. I'll try again tomorrow, as lights will be going off fairly soon.

I also tried to get a hold of some small silkies or something, but those are VERY rare here, and they're only about in the summer. The only other option I have available to be is grasshoppers, which might be too much work to eat (And I'd have to pick them up). I can also offer wax worms, but those aren't all that healthy, are they?

 

[dom1959]

again good job by you, wax worm is not normally good but
given the circumstances would prolly be ok in moderation.

do you haave phoenix/calci worms available?
they are small and have high calcium which i am sure is needed.

 

[Ferrah88]

again good job by you, wax worm is not normally good but
given the circumstances would prolly be ok in moderation.

do you haave phoenix/calci worms available?
they are small and have high calcium which i am sure is needed.

Would the phoenix worms be these? http://www.quality-bugs.de/product_....html/XTCsid/q1gdjqc9ig2f27hd82tfvk9r448ltpe6 (I know it's in german, but that should be the latin name on there. "Soldier fly larvae")

Not sure what the calci would be.... do they turn into any kind of beetle or fly or so?

If those are the right worms, I think that's the only place I can get them and will order them Should I order some small wax moth larvae as well, or would flies, crickets and phoenix worms be enough for her? Either I have not yet found good places to get cham food, or the food supply here in Germany is low I suppose the plus side is that the bugs that we DO get are fed well! (They don't get those egg-cartons to eat and stuff, but some generic dry gutload when shipping in the case of crickets.)

::EDIT::
If those are the right ones, would you recommend I get the small, medium or large ones? The site doesn't state their rough size... so I was thinking the small ones. Although I have NO idea how small small will be. I would like them small enough for her to eat, but large enough for me to hand feed her!

 

[dom1959]

those are the ones.

thank God for google translate