Crested Chameleons Sick

[kkey1066]

I have lost due to sickness two of four Crested Chams. In the first pair both were sickly and the male wasted and died at 1 week The female is doing much better but was lethargic for the first week or so. The second pair was even worse the male died this morning after only 3 days. The second female is not feeding but at least drinks water from a drip.
Typically, when they arrive , they look pretty healthy and eat a few crickets. Next thing I know , they look stressed and stop eating and become skinny slow and lethargic . Later they will seem to not want to drink and soon after they die. Maybe its something in the crickets passed on to the host that makes them sick. Both males have died and seemed very weak and delicate. Both females are currently still alive but not exactly in great condition IMHO. Please respond to the info here if you have anything of interest. Thanks!

Origin: WC
Housing: 30x30x18 screen cage
Hydration: 2 pints of drip plus 2x mist per day / humidity 60 % (humidifier active in their room)
Feeding: crickets and waxworms
Lighting: 50 watt incandescent 5.0 UVB bulb plus 12 inch flourescent UVB
bulb
Temps: 75 to 80 in day / - Daytime basking 80 - cage lower area is 75 / Nightime 72 to 65 .

 

[Carrie Anne]

Did you treat them for parasites or know if they had been treated for them?

 

[Sohumvet]

First thing to do is get a fecal run. Parasites are highly likely in your situation. Add in the stress they are going through and that could easily kill them.

 

[kkey1066]

Im thinking along those same lines . It is probably internal parasites. Both males died before I could get a fecal sample. I did get a fecal sample from the oldest captive female (she seems reasonably healthy and is actually feeding) and will get it to my vet. The other female hasent even made a stool yet. I just got her last thursday.
A long shot I thought possible is a change in barometric pressure. These are from what I understand, from the mountain slopes of west cameroon or thereabouts about 4000 feet altitude. I am in Louisiana USA at sea level. A long shot but I am grasping at straws. Its odd how quickly their condition goes downhill. I have 1.1 healthy Jacksons housed nearby eating crickets from the same source.

 

[Sohumvet]

Get the stool sample to your vet as soon as you can. The fresher the sample the greater the chance to find the parasite ova and to check for coccicidia and giardia. Once the stool dries out its very hard to get it to mix with the solution to do a fecal float. I know this from personal experience.
Also, the older the stool sample is the less likely to find parasites.

 

[kkey1066]

Ill drop off the sample at the Vet this afternoon.

Im really infatuated with the idea of caring for and enjoying Cresteds and would like to see them reproduce. Due to their delicate nature however , it looks as tho ill have to get informed on how to deal with whatever it is that is taking them out. Thanks for all the replies. Any other advice is appreciated. I see very little in depth info on the internet so far.

 

[kkey1066]

update

The test took ten minutes. The fecal tested from the oldest captive female tested clean. I even mentioned to them the types you suggested they check for (coccicidia and giardia). Unfortunately the female tested is the one that is feeding and seems in the best health. I still dont have a testable sample from a new arrival or an apparently infected example. When they get sick, they stop making stool. Can the vet get a fecal sample from a cu tip swab without a full stool sample? Anyone?

 

[Sohumvet]

It is possible to get a small stool sample that way but it may not be adequate to run a fecal. Plus you run the risk of hurting the animal and stressing it. However that's how fecal cultures are obtained and the risk is minimal. My personal recommendation is to deworm any WC chameleon that appears healthy enough. Realize that there is a risk when deworming chameleons so you have to weigh the benefits against the risk. In my opinion, the benefits far outweigh the risks so I recommend it to my clients and I do it with all my chameleons. To date I've not lost any of mine or my clients animals deworming them.

 

[kkey1066]

thanks

Thanks for the response Sohumvet. There is a place in town called Allpets and their site says Our specialty is "Dogs Cats Birds and Exotic pets". I think the only thing I can do is take my new arrivals to their "exotic pet specialist" and ask him to do a deworming and fecal swipe from the get go the moment I get the pet. That is who Pet Smart recommended. Im in Baton Rouge Louisiana.
Unfortunately the other remaining female looks worse this evening wont drink water and her eyes are more sunken in and she is not moving at all except to shake her tail when I lightly misted her . I dont think she would survive a trip across town and examination. Bummer. Oddly the oldest captive female looks good and I just cup fed her a waxworm and three mealworms her eyes look great and are very alert. Hopefully, someone will offer a CB male for sale and maybe he will work out better (not die immediatly).

 

[Trace]

There are a lot of species of chameleons that could fall under the moniker ‘Crested Chameleon’ but I would assume you have a Trioceros cristatus, but even if it is something else the same guidelines apply. If you could post a few pictures we could identify them for you.

Many of the specimens are wild caught (like yours) and as such pose a more difficult challenge to acclimate to captivity. In many instances they are close to death upon arrival and it sounds like yours are no different. Sadly the cristatus are particularly fragile and have an abysmal survival rate. I apologise for sounding harsh but that’s the way it is. While I appreciate deworming wild caughts I find hitting them with a dewormer right away tends to kill them more than make them better. These wild caughts are stressed out from being held in sub-par conditions while waiting for export, they are dehydrated and malnourished. Hitting them with essentially a poison (the deworming meds) does more harm than good.

Hydration at this point is a priority and showers, long misting sessions and drippers will help rehydrate the remaining few. This will also help them clean their skin and eyes. Also the cristatus come from areas of Cameroon that get prolonged rainy seasons so they are used to lots of water. Give it to them. Food, it they are interested, is also important at this stage. The cristatus aren’t generally fussy eaters but I had no success with getting them to eat soft bodied worms like silks or horns (that’s just me though!) but they did relish roaches, crickets and flies. Force feeding at this point may also be prudent if they aren’t eating on their own. Avoid handling and hovering. Go into their cages to pick up poops and offer food and water; otherwise the unwelcome attention just leads to further stress. Otherwise I think your temperatures and such are good although humidity could be boosted.

Good luck! If you have any further questions or need clarification please do not hesitate to ask!

 

[Sohumvet]

Trace

I absolutely agree that the animals need to be hydrated hence my statement that the animal needs to be healthy enough to deworm. Deworming a stressed, dehydrated, and emaciated will more than likely push it over the edge and kill it.

 

[Sohumvet]

Thanks for the response Sohumvet. There is a place in town called Allpets and their site says Our specialty is "Dogs Cats Birds and Exotic pets". I think the only thing I can do is take my new arrivals to their "exotic pet specialist" and ask him to do a deworming and fecal swipe from the get go the moment I get the pet. That is who Pet Smart recommended. Im in Baton Rouge Louisiana.
Unfortunately the other remaining female looks worse this evening wont drink water and her eyes are more sunken in and she is not moving at all except to shake her tail when I lightly misted her . I dont think she would survive a trip across town and examination. Bummer. Oddly the oldest captive female looks good and I just cup fed her a waxworm and three mealworms her eyes look great and are very alert. Hopefully, someone will offer a CB male for sale and maybe he will work out better (not die immediatly).

I agree with Trace about the hydration. Get them lightly showered, keep misting and if possible use a drip.

 

[kkey1066]

Thanks Trace, Sohumvet

It is definately Trioceros Christatus

My only available option in the near term is to increase the sick females exposure to moisture. Ill run the humidifier wide open. And increase misting. The drip is full time. What does lightly shower mean? Is it longer duration misting?

 

[Chameleonmaster]

What they mean by shower is just spray down the cage with the spray bottle for a couple minutes so the whole cage get watered.

 

[kkey1066]

Heres a pic of the healthy one she closed her eye as I snapped .

 

[kkey1066]

How do I post a large picture ? That was only a few kilobytes.

 

[Trace]

Trace

I absolutely agree that the animals need to be hydrated hence my statement that the animal needs to be healthy enough to deworm. Deworming a stressed, dehydrated, and emaciated will more than likely push it over the edge and kill it.

Ah yes you did! I sort of skimmed the thread initially and wanted to get some how-to-deal-with–a-wild-caught information out quickly before my dinner was ready (It was delicious BTW) but I did miss some things.

I do want to add seeing a veterinarian is recommended. As much as forums like these are good for getting information on care and breeding of these odd species, health directives should come from a professional. I guess my training as a vet tech taught me to never diagnose things even if I’ve heard the symptoms a million times before. I do deworm my wild caughts just not the instant I obtain them and that’s what’s worked for me in the past. Some wild caughts are more debilitated than others and that should be taken into account.

Thanks Trace, Sohumvet

It is definately Trioceros Christatus

My only available option in the near term is to increase the sick females exposure to moisture. Ill run the humidifier wide open. And increase misting. The drip is full time. What does lightly shower mean? Is it longer duration misting?

Showering is just that. Simply place a plant or perch into the bathtub or shower stall. Aim the showerhead against a wall so the water bounces back against the plant or aim so the water is partially showering the perch. Allow an area for the chameleon to escape the water should they choose. Turn on the water and set to lukewarm (warm and hot water will burn your chameleon!) and place your chameleon on the plant. Keep a close eye on the animal so they don’t escape the bathtub but most chameleons find this time to be relaxing and settle into a good rehydrating drink and don’t try to escape. Initially I do this every day for 15-30 minutes until the specimen starts looking better then may decrease times.

Again good luck! I really like the cristatus so hopefully these girls can turn around for you.

What they mean by shower is just spray down the cage with the spray bottle for a couple minutes so the whole cage get watered.

Not really. See above.

 

[kkey1066]

Oh duh I see just click on it. ooops

 

[Trace]

Dang another thing! I'd have to look back at my notes re: breeding seasons vs. rainy seasons but there is a possibility these gals are gravid so make sure they have a lay bucket available. That healthier one doesn't look too bad!

 

[Sohumvet]

Ah yes you did! I sort of skimmed the thread initially and wanted to get some how-to-deal-with–a-wild-caught information out quickly before my dinner was ready (It was delicious BTW) but I did miss some things.

I do want to add seeing a veterinarian is recommended. As much as forums like these are good for getting information on care and breeding of these odd species, health directives should come from a professional. I guess my training as a vet tech taught me to never diagnose things even if I’ve heard the symptoms a million times before. I do deworm my wild caughts just not the instant I obtain them and that’s what’s worked for me in the past. Some wild caughts are more debilitated than others and that should be taken into account.



Showering is just that. Simply place a plant or perch into the bathtub or shower stall. Aim the showerhead against a wall so the water bounces back against the plant or aim so the water is partially showering the perch. Allow an area for the chameleon to escape the water should they choose. Turn on the water and set to lukewarm (warm and hot water will burn your chameleon!) and place your chameleon on the plant. Keep a close eye on the animal so they don’t escape the bathtub but most chameleons find this time to be relaxing and settle into a good rehydrating drink and don’t try to escape. Initially I do this every day for 15-30 minutes until the specimen starts looking better then may decrease times.

Again good luck! I really like the cristatus so hopefully these girls can turn around for you.



Not really. See above.

I couldn't have said it better Trace! And shower just like Trace said. It's the best way to hydrate them short of intracoelemic fluids.