Cross-Breeding pics
- Thread starter Rickky
- Start date
Nicodemayo
Avid Member
except the problem after this is what if the buyer decides to sell the animal and mislabels it to make a few extra bucks?
CleanLineChameleons
Avid Member
True, people do want pure bred dogs. I am somewhat of a purist as far as locales go and think some of the locales show different traits and a little different bone structure. I want mine to look good but also look as if there were right from Madagascar, not an Americanized melting pot panther. I think there is still a lot to learn and maybe one day with enough research each locale will turn into sub-species, who knows?
-chris
-chris
spatulars
New Member
Walter: 50% Ambilobe 50% Ambanja sire Mihoatra Finoana great grandsire Glorfindel (maternal relation)
In the middle of eating a few Dubia:
Approach upon spotting his prey:
Roaming around the cage:
This is an older picture (sorry for blindingly bright flash), the only one that I've caught when he's at his brightest colors:
The coolest thing about him is that he has a very, very wide range of colors. I would call his variation in color chaotic, at times.
I like crosses, but I also know that their offspring are more or less undesirable. It's hard to expect that everyone will keep the records they should, I think many are lax and a few might purposefully misrepresent them.
In the middle of eating a few Dubia:
Approach upon spotting his prey:
Roaming around the cage:
This is an older picture (sorry for blindingly bright flash), the only one that I've caught when he's at his brightest colors:
The coolest thing about him is that he has a very, very wide range of colors. I would call his variation in color chaotic, at times.
I like crosses, but I also know that their offspring are more or less undesirable. It's hard to expect that everyone will keep the records they should, I think many are lax and a few might purposefully misrepresent them.
ToniandGizmo
New Member
He's a beauty
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
I dont mind crosses, so long as I KNOW they are crosses.
I had a female sold to me as a NosyBe, and was provided pictures of the father who was a beautiful blue. She was mated with a wc nosy male who was a nice torquoise colour. I havent been able to keep in touch with all the buyers of the offspring. But from what I can tell, the majority of the male offspring looked a lot like my wc father, at least two also sometimes give that beautiful sky blue. BUT one of them, from the beginning, seemed a bit different from his brothers, with a few red dots on his chin. I kept him, and now he is a beautiful fellow, with a fabulous personality. But with his red bars, he's no pure Nosy, not as we have come to think of a Nosy anyhow, which means his siblings are not either.
I sold most of the siblings, and I told the buyers that the father was a wild caught Nosy Be, and that the mother was sold to me as NosyBe. Even thought I believed the female was NosyBe as sold to me, I knew one couldnt be positive, given her breeder wasnt someone with a big company reputation, just some guy breeding occasionally for fun, like me. So I made sure to thus word it cautiously to my buyers as I did. I made sure they knew I had no way of being sure of the mother. I priced at $250 (though they sell for much more locally) because I wanted to pick the homes more than I wanted cash. And as far as I know none of the buyers are breeders. Still, its possible someone who bought one of those babies did not choose to hear what I said, and thinks they for sure have a pure Nosy Be.
I know the "problem" wasnt with the male, his mating with a different cb true nosy female tured out 100% lovely torquoise and blue nosy be offspring.
I suspect even in Madagascar there is a bit of cross-breeding going one. Its not like the wild animals care all that much about lineage.
Basically, when I buy an animal as a certain local, I want it to be as true to that local as possible. But I dont mind buying a cross either, so long as I know it is a cross. Some of the crosses are fantastic looking, and since I'm just a hobbist, not in any way preserving the species in case of some disaster in another country, keeping chameleons cuz they are just so kewl and awesome, why not!?
I had a female sold to me as a NosyBe, and was provided pictures of the father who was a beautiful blue. She was mated with a wc nosy male who was a nice torquoise colour. I havent been able to keep in touch with all the buyers of the offspring. But from what I can tell, the majority of the male offspring looked a lot like my wc father, at least two also sometimes give that beautiful sky blue. BUT one of them, from the beginning, seemed a bit different from his brothers, with a few red dots on his chin. I kept him, and now he is a beautiful fellow, with a fabulous personality. But with his red bars, he's no pure Nosy, not as we have come to think of a Nosy anyhow, which means his siblings are not either.
I sold most of the siblings, and I told the buyers that the father was a wild caught Nosy Be, and that the mother was sold to me as NosyBe. Even thought I believed the female was NosyBe as sold to me, I knew one couldnt be positive, given her breeder wasnt someone with a big company reputation, just some guy breeding occasionally for fun, like me. So I made sure to thus word it cautiously to my buyers as I did. I made sure they knew I had no way of being sure of the mother. I priced at $250 (though they sell for much more locally) because I wanted to pick the homes more than I wanted cash. And as far as I know none of the buyers are breeders. Still, its possible someone who bought one of those babies did not choose to hear what I said, and thinks they for sure have a pure Nosy Be.
I know the "problem" wasnt with the male, his mating with a different cb true nosy female tured out 100% lovely torquoise and blue nosy be offspring.
I suspect even in Madagascar there is a bit of cross-breeding going one. Its not like the wild animals care all that much about lineage.
Basically, when I buy an animal as a certain local, I want it to be as true to that local as possible. But I dont mind buying a cross either, so long as I know it is a cross. Some of the crosses are fantastic looking, and since I'm just a hobbist, not in any way preserving the species in case of some disaster in another country, keeping chameleons cuz they are just so kewl and awesome, why not!?
Rickky
Avid Member
Thank you sandra..I believe that they cross in the wild also...there is not to say the jus because a region is seperated by mountains or a river that it is impossible for a chameleon to cross it...I like crosses it puts the color concept out of the box...you get so much more variety...but if they are sold be honest and let people know what they are...
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Here is McLovin' ...He is a F. Pardalis... Crossed with a F. Pardalis...
Just kidding...But not really though... He is a Nosy Be/Ambilobe... I really don't like it when people use the comparison of Cross vs Purebred dogs when referring to Panther Locales. This is a horribly reckelss comparison, as we are talking about something that is drastically different from the idea of purebred dogs. I used to own a Dog that was a "Mutt"... It was a Pit Bull, Beagle Mix. If you can show me someone who bred a Male Panther to a Female Veiled... Then I will call that a Mutt. I really can't stand that comparsion, and believe it is a marketing tactic used by Breeders who base their buisness off of selling true locales. Nobody can really prove how "Pure" their Chameleon's line is. Shoot nobody can even prove how "Pure" the bloodline of the panther they caught just North of Ambanja is, Shoot could be an Ambilobe that wandered south... Or it could be a Nosy Be someone brought over and released. There are just too many variables in the wild alone, and that is before they enter captivity.
I might go as far to consider the Locales we see on the Market today are just a product of selective breeding of the best looking Chams in the shipments, and not really an accurate reflection of what the majority of the Chams in a certain area of Maddy really look like. When I see pics of Panthers in the wild... They hardly ever resemble the Locales we see in the captive breeding world today. And when a breeder gets a shipment of WC's, They are going to pick and breed the ones that most closely resemble what they feel the market demands. All of the animals in the shipment should supposedly be "pure" since they are all wild caught... Are the ones they don't breed "unpure"? Nope, They just don't fit the Label the breeders have put on "Pure".
With the way the market is...Most people do aim to keep the Locales looking a certain way, I think this is because it adds another demension to the hobby. So ethically you should always be completely forth right on the lineage of the animals you breed and sell, and never misrepresent them.
Just my take on it... No offense meant to anyone.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
SoCaliSon
Avid Member
Thanks for the Compliment Royden!
... He really is getting more and more beautifull by the day. He is a spoiled little guy, but he is still the most friendly Cham I have ever encountered. I can't spot clean his cage without him trying to climb onto me... I love it.
Rickky
Avid Member
I like when the major panthers are crossed when you are going for major color...(Ambilobe Ambanja Nosybe)...I have a pink and I was told and I believe that if you breed the Ankaramy to a cham with more than one color it drowns the pink out...I would only breed a pink to a Nosy Be or maybe a Tamatave...But I overall would keep the pink a "pure color" Too unique to blend
ciafardo 4
New Member
yes hes somthing else he looks all ambanja in the pics
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