curious if anyone has refused a cham sale ???

[Snootchie0210]

I found that the new keepers ended up being better than some of the priors. They joined the forums, did tons of research, posted their set ups (way before their baby arrived) and ask tons of questions.

Yessss! Haha. Dexter is my first chameleon. I keep in touch with the breeder I got him from. Also find myself logging in to the forum everyday to pick up some pointers.

I'm also the annoying guy who's been asking about lighting, enclosure stands, misting schedule, and plants. I'm in the process of upgrading the enclosure and the guys here have been more than helpful.

 

[deadhd5]

$150? I think that's way too much for a Veiled. Seriously, just because you pay more doesn't always make it better... I think mills are terrible, but at the same time I sometimes feel that breeders charge insane amounts for chameleons. I wish they could all have a standard price, hehe, and I could buy them at Costco. Anyways, that's the way the cookie crumbles. Some breeders think they are selling living gold for an average cham, and then there are mills that mass produce through inbreeding...Find a middle-road.

Do you have any breeding experience so you can actually understand the costs of breeding and raising baby chameleons without taking shortcuts? I suspect not.

 

[Mike Fisher]

There is also such a thing as "over-screening" your customers so that you come across as an elitist. Those customers will find someone to sell them a chameleon, regardless if it is from you. If you make it too hard on them, they'll just bypass the CB altogether and buy a cheap WC import from a dealer who won't hassle them. Further contributing to the problem of diminishing populations in the wild.

There is a balance there. Never assume that your prospective customer won't take care of an animal based on their current knowledge. Most are eager to research and make the perfect home for their new addition.

Providing a printed care sheet for each species you breed or sell is a must! You'd be surprised at how many breeders do not supply them, instead just telling them to go to a website.

Also, demanding proof that they have kept chameleons before you sell to them is a big turn off, especially to experienced keepers.

 

[stacy76]

thanks for all the input everyone.

 

[VigilantSpearIII]

Do you have any breeding experience so you can actually understand the costs of breeding and raising baby chameleons without taking shortcuts? I suspect not.

Arrogant much? Suspect all you want, $150 is way too much for a veiled, spend all you want though, stimulate the economy buddy.

 

[deadhd5]

Arrogant much? Suspect all you want, $150 is way too much for a veiled, spend all you want though, stimulate the economy buddy.

Is it arrogant to point out that your statement has no basis in experience?

Seems arrogant to make a bunch of claims about a subject in which you have no experience. At least do a little reading on the subject before spouting off.

 

[VigilantSpearIII]

Is it arrogant to point out that your statement has no basis in experience?

Seems arrogant to make a bunch of claims about a subject in which you have no experience. At least do a little reading on the subject before spouting off.

It is arrogant because you don't know me, you have no insight on my level of experience. This forum is here so that people could offer constructive advice and personal opinion. I could care less about how much you charge buyers or how much you pay, that is your problem. I do however have an opinion that some prices are too much. You are a prime example of people that jump to conclusions. You believe that you have more knowledge and experience just because of what? Is there a placard on your wall that somehow gives you a guarantee that you are the greatest internet breeder? Do not assume so much, it is unbecoming of a senior member on this forum.

OP sorry for hijacking the thread on such a petty issue. Refusing to sell to prospective buyers is acceptable.

 

[nightanole]

I believe that my joke of not buying a veiled since the 90's ($150) went down hill fast...

Still, what would be a good price for a veiled that you knew the parents had never been inbred?

 

[DanSB]

Contrary to what some may think I think price is an excellent way to ensure you're selling to someone with the means to care for an animal you're selling. A 15 dollar wc Senegal is less likely to get good care than a 600 dollar faly...

Charge a little more than the going price, offer a pedigree, and a healthy parasite free animal it is well worth it to anyone who has done their research.

I think low prices or a deal could tempt someone to take an animal they aren't ready for no matter their experience level. If you aren't doing it for the money donate the extra to some chameleon research or spend it on rehabilitation of a sick animal somewhere...

 

[laurie]

There is also such a thing as "over-screening" your customers so that you come across as an elitist. Those customers will find someone to sell them a chameleon, regardless if it is from you. If you make it too hard on them, they'll just bypass the CB altogether and buy a cheap WC import from a dealer who won't hassle them. Further contributing to the problem of diminishing populations in the wild.

There is a balance there. Never assume that your prospective customer won't take care of an animal based on their current knowledge. Most are eager to research and make the perfect home for their new addition.

Providing a printed care sheet for each species you breed or sell is a must! You'd be surprised at how many breeders do not supply them, instead just telling them to go to a website.

Also, demanding proof that they have kept chameleons before you sell to them is a big turn off, especially to experienced keepers.

Mike you and I do not come close to thinking alike. Mine is from experience. A couple years ago I sold a pair of quad babies to a guy I met and talked to here on the forum. I should have been more careful. He said he had the care sheet and was all ready to go. He got a care sheet off LLL's website, it was for quads. Had I screened him a bit better, I would not have sent a pair of the quads I love so much to a guy who cooked them at 95 as that is what the care sheet said. It still haunts me. I checked and the care sheet came fro LLL and did say quads should be 95. I don't think you can over screen, but I think a lot of people sure do under screen.

 

[DanSB]

Reading this thread, I wonder if we should establish a terminology difference. After all words define much of our perception.

Those who care, who want to screen, are not selling, they are adopting out.

If I get a cham from a typical dealer or breeder I am buying a chameleon. If I get one of Jann's or Laurie's babies I am adopting a loved part of the family. With adoption screening is expected. There would be an adoption fee of course but the psychology is different. This is common with dogs, cats, tortoises, and a few other animals.

Maybe the choice should be if your adopting or selling. If your adopting it wouldn't be weird to make them fill out an application, provide photos of the enclosure etc... You have to do that for a kitten, why not a chameleon?

Of course there will still be sellers, but there is no reason those who are breeding for love shouldn't be super picky. The new owners should be happy to get a quality loved animal and the adopter would be happy to know their babies are going to a good home.

 

[VigilantSpearIII]

There is also such a thing as "over-screening" your customers so that you come across as an elitist. Those customers will find someone to sell them a chameleon, regardless if it is from you. If you make it too hard on them, they'll just bypass the CB altogether and buy a cheap WC import from a dealer who won't hassle them. Further contributing to the problem of diminishing populations in the wild.

There is a balance there. Never assume that your prospective customer won't take care of an animal based on their current knowledge. Most are eager to research and make the perfect home for their new addition.

Providing a printed care sheet for each species you breed or sell is a must! You'd be surprised at how many breeders do not supply them, instead just telling them to go to a website.

Also, demanding proof that they have kept chameleons before you sell to them is a big turn off, especially to experienced keepers.

I agree, there should be a balance. Screening shouldn't come off as an interrogation. We need more people in the hobby and by scaring off potential buyers... this hobby will stay occult. Most people have no idea about chameleon care. Its a small group of people that keep reptiles as pets. This group is even smaller when we specify chameleons as pets. All in all, we need more people in the hobby so that basic care will be as well known as cats and cat-litter boxes. I say, do screening, but be prepared to offer a lot of info. Also don't be abusive when you screen people, they are customers in the end, they came to you because they are interested. Keep them interested.

 

[retroangles]

Ive never paid less than $150 for my veiled's thank you very much

Wow its been a while since ive bought a veiled. I still remember saving up for my first veiled because i didnt want to get one of those cheap parsons that werent very hardy.

Just had to ask why on earth would paying more money for your Cham, make you a better caregiver? I understand that the cheaper something is means a broader range of potential owners there is. But for Pete's sake that's a dilly of a statement. Vieled Chams are becoming way more common, and with that the price will plunge. It's the whole supply on demand thing. I paid $40 for my male Veiled, and three years on can garundamntee anyone I take very good care of him. Of course I have spent some jack on cages, lights, foggers, etc.... But in closing will say

It is wise to make sure your pet goes to a loving home, but to add a level of selective monitary scrutiny to that is really not cool.

And by all means the price of something has Absolutly nothing to do with its quality or future care.

 

[Kerrek]

There is also such a thing as "over-screening" your customers so that you come across as an elitist. Those customers will find someone to sell them a chameleon, regardless if it is from you. If you make it too hard on them, they'll just bypass the CB altogether and buy a cheap WC import from a dealer who won't hassle them. Further contributing to the problem of diminishing populations in the wild.

There is a balance there. Never assume that your prospective customer won't take care of an animal based on their current knowledge. Most are eager to research and make the perfect home for their new addition.

Providing a printed care sheet for each species you breed or sell is a must! You'd be surprised at how many breeders do not supply them, instead just telling them to go to a website.

Also, demanding proof that they have kept chameleons before you sell to them is a big turn off, especially to experienced keepers.

Scary thing is the number of breeders of reptiles that don't think they owe the purchaser anything. They think it is the purchasers responsibility to
know everything before they buy. I don't get this I love talking about the animals I breed and what it takes to take care of them. Its fun to help some one who wants to learn I just don't like the bratty kids and the people that want a cool animal but don't want to do the uncool stuff to take care of it. Worst question I ever got "Can we leave it alone for 2 weeks while we go on vacation?"

 

[deadhd5]

It is arrogant because you don't know me, you have no insight on my level of experience. This forum is here so that people could offer constructive advice and personal opinion. I could care less about how much you charge buyers or how much you pay, that is your problem. I do however have an opinion that some prices are too much. You are a prime example of people that jump to conclusions. You believe that you have more knowledge and experience just because of what? Is there a placard on your wall that somehow gives you a guarantee that you are the greatest internet breeder? Do not assume so much, it is unbecoming of a senior member on this forum.

OP sorry for hijacking the thread on such a petty issue. Refusing to sell to prospective buyers is acceptable.

Enough insight to be right, it is obvious from your comments. You haven't disputed my assumption about your lack of experience breeding.

I'm just trying to explain to you that you don't understand the costs involved in breeding so you don't really understand what the price point should be for a well taken care of juvenile chameleon. You should be asking questions not pretending you know it all.

 

[stacy76]

Just had to ask why on earth would paying more money for your Cham, make you a better caregiver? I understand that the cheaper something is means a broader range of potential owners there is. But for Pete's sake that's a dilly of a statement. Vieled Chams are becoming way more common, and with that the price will plunge. It's the whole supply on demand thing. I paid $40 for my male Veiled, and three years on can garundamntee anyone I take very good care of him. Of course I have spent some jack on cages, lights, foggers, etc.... But in closing will say

It is wise to make sure your pet goes to a loving home, but to add a level of selective monitary scrutiny to that is really not cool.

And by all means the price of something has Absolutly nothing to do with its quality or future care.

this is where im unsure of prices of chams and there monitary of scrutiny should be selective..lots of people own pets,but cant affordd vet bills and regular checkups..is that truley care of our chams and pets alike????if your kids or family was sick would you not make a way to make sure they got medical care?if you can not afford this, why own a pet??? i would sooner keep my pets than sell them to one who could not payfor their care if they were sick..

 

[VigilantSpearIII]

Enough insight to be right, it is obvious from your comments. You haven't disputed my assumption about your lack of experience breeding.

I'm just trying to explain to you that you don't understand the costs involved in breeding so you don't really understand what the price point should be for a well taken care of juvenile chameleon. You should be asking questions not pretending you know it all.

*Sigh*

I think Mark Twain said it best: "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference..."

 

[stasisb5a4]

I listed my 1 year old veiled for sale yesterday on craigslist and someone called me within 4 hours. The guy wanted to meet up with me Saturday morning at 11. I thought about it all day at work. I needed the money though but I spent too much time and money on this guy and hate to give him away for $200 with this cage and supplies. It's just no worth it and I feel bad. This is my first Chameleon and so far I think I've done a good job keeping him healthy and happy. Not only that, it's the nicest chameleon ever. I'm also afraid that the new owner won't take care of him. I just text the guy right now and told him the deal is off. I could of sold everything, chameleon, his cage and mistking all for $300. I want to shoot myself right now.

 

[djfishygillz]

Reading this thread, I wonder if we should establish a terminology difference. After all words define much of our perception.

Those who care, who want to screen, are not selling, they are adopting out.

If I get a cham from a typical dealer or breeder I am buying a chameleon. If I get one of Jann's or Laurie's babies I am adopting a loved part of the family. With adoption screening is expected. There would be an adoption fee of course but the psychology is different. This is common with dogs, cats, tortoises, and a few other animals.

Maybe the choice should be if your adopting or selling. If your adopting it wouldn't be weird to make them fill out an application, provide photos of the enclosure etc... You have to do that for a kitten, why not a chameleon?

Of course there will still be sellers, but there is no reason those who are breeding for love shouldn't be super picky. The new owners should be happy to get a quality loved animal and the adopter would be happy to know their babies are going to a good home.

This was put amazingly. Great job Dan.

 

[djfishygillz]

Just had to ask why on earth would paying more money for your Cham, make you a better caregiver? I understand that the cheaper something is means a broader range of potential owners there is. But for Pete's sake that's a dilly of a statement. Vieled Chams are becoming way more common, and with that the price will plunge. It's the whole supply on demand thing. I paid $40 for my male Veiled, and three years on can garundamntee anyone I take very good care of him. Of course I have spent some jack on cages, lights, foggers, etc.... But in closing will say

It is wise to make sure your pet goes to a loving home, but to add a level of selective monitary scrutiny to that is really not cool.

And by all means the price of something has Absolutly nothing to do with its quality or future care.

If you live in lala land then yes money wouldn't matter, but in reality if you pay more for a reptile, fish, cat, dog it will most likely have better care provided. Children who buy a $1 dollar gold fish will not take as good of care as an adult male who buys a $1500 dollar fish.

Like Dan said, a pedigree, higher prices, all these typically "HELP" and strongly "CORRELATE" (emphasis I am not saying cause but correlate too) a better cared for animal.