Death of a Pygmy

[Ryan Jarosek]

Well, one of my Pygmys died last night. I saw her in the bottom of the tank sitting on the ground with her eyes closed looking very dark.

My wife and I took him out and placed her in a deli cup with a papertowl and a little branch from an umbrella tree. She lighted up almost right away. after giving her a little water. We left her in a dark cool place for a couple of hours.

I went back to check on her and she was motionless. I placed her on my finger and she started to wake. After a little while she opened her eyes. She began to thrash back and forth with her mouth open. Her tongue would shoot in and out. It was quite hard to watch. She calmed down and just looked really bad. We decided to let her rest so we put her back in the Dark place. A couple of hours later we looked at her and she had obviously passed away. She was Black, tongue hanging out, and had white spots on her.

She was half the size of everyone else. I don't know if she wasn't eating or was just to small to make it. I couldn't tell anything was wrong that morning but she went down hill fast. I received two very small girls, one that has grown quite a bit. She was black when I received them and I thought she was dead for sure. She ended up making it and looks really healthy now.

Does anyone have any ideas what might cause this? This is the second one in about three weeks that has died like this.

Temps are 72-75 about 70% humidity (sometimes gets down to 60%) I am housing 1.2 in each 20 gal tank. I have a fan blowing over the top of the cages that provides a little breeze. (Very little)

EDIT : I should mention they are all CB

 

[jannb]

I am so sorry for the loss of your little one. That had to be hard to go through. Jann

 

[Julirs]

I am yet to figure out why pygmies die when all of the conditions are right. With WC's I chalk it up to them beiing, well, WC, but with CH or CB it is just really hard to tell. These little ones just don't live very long regardless.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

I am yet to figure out why pygmies die when all of the conditions are right. With WC's I chalk it up to them beiing, well, WC, but with CH or CB it is just really hard to tell. These little ones just don't live very long regardless.

Thats why I need a Veiled right? Juli

My wife says no more Pygmys , They are breaking her heart. I told her for now on only true Chameleons.

 

[Julirs]

Thats why I need a Veiled right? Juli

My wife says no more Pygmys , They are breaking her heart. I told her for now on only big Chameleons.

Now Ryan-I do have some CH male 3+ month old pygmies that need homes and I will be happy to put one in the box with the Veiled!

 

[Justin Carl]

Sorry to hear that Ryan.
Pygmies can be tough, but such is life and caring for little chameleons.
You have to take the good with the bad.
If I'm not mistaken...I have a pair of veileds for sale.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

Sorry to hear that Ryan.
Pygmies can be tough, but such is life and caring for little chameleons.
You have to take the good with the bad.
If I'm not mistaken...I have a pair of veileds for sale.

Will those two fit in a 20Gal tank? jk

This is too much . Come on you all know I am addicted. I need help not enablers. . HAHAHAHA

 

[MandaRyan]

So sorry to hear about your pygmy. Our baby veiled died about a month ago and we have no idea what even happened to him. He was perfectly healthy or what had seemed to be healthy, started to close his eyes during the day so we took him to the vet. Turned out he only weighed 4 grams (too small for the vet to take any blood from him). The vet gave us some anti-biotics and liquid calcium but he died the next morning. We got him from Petco and were told he was probably a couple months old. We had him for a couple of months and the vet had said he was probably only a couple weeks old when we got him. It was really a let down because we really babied him and tried so hard to make sure everything was right but sometimes no matter how well you treat your chams, it seems they can die unexpectedly.

 

[FooL111394]

I am yet to figure out why pygmies die when all of the conditions are right. With WC's I chalk it up to them beiing, well, WC, but with CH or CB it is just really hard to tell. These little ones just don't live very long regardless.

I think it is just that we still don't know too much about them. They are newer for keeping in captivity. It took everyone atleast 20 years to get where we are with husbandry for panther chams. Back then people didn't know as much about them as we do now. I think right now we are in that just learning about pygmies phase.

 

[Fate X]

maybe the pygmy chams need to be in a screen cage.its probably like with other chams that can more easily get some kind of infection if kept in a glass cage.

 

[ponders]

Hey Ryan,
Sorry to hear about your pyg! When I got my shipment of baby pygmies(last Oct) they were all the same size. One female just never grew and remained baby size while her sister grew to full grown size. She lived for 4-5 months, but one day just died. I saw her eat the day before and she was always a hearty eater. It's sad. The sire of my baby just up and died 2 weeks ago, he was fine when I went to work I just think their life span is short and that's why they have so many babies with a short gestation to pass on the torch when they go. My baby boy is all alone in his tank now. Time to get some new blood. See you tomorrow at the bug swap!

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

uhggg!!!

I had another baby die today. This time it was a male in another tank separate from the other. These guys when I got them were pretty young (2 months) . It does seem the small ones are dying. Most of them are much bigger than their siblings.

I am going to remove them from the tanks and keep them in separate from the rest to see if I can prevent another loss. I am going to wait until they are bigger before I put them back in the tank. I need to monitor there eating.

My temps are good, humidity good , Maybe everyone is not getting to eat. In all instances the pygs look good either the day before or in the morning then dead by evening. No warning at all. They have even shed the day before.

 

[Fate X]

i still believe they will do better in a screen cage.it seems like theres alot of pygmys dying.

 

[Ryan Jarosek]

i still believe they will do better in a screen cage.it seems like theres alot of pygmys dying.

I don't know of anyone or read of anyone keeping pygs in a screen enclosure. Would you mind if I asked what your method of keeping them is? Do you keep them in a screen enclosure.

It would be difficult to provide the 3 + inches of substrate on the bottom. Maintain the humidity and provide a filtration method that keeps clean and stays moist and provide a laying medium. I would be hesitant to try to keep pygs different than the proven method used by a number of keepers. I am always open to suggestions but would be a little more comfortable if someone has tried this and has some setup recommendations.

I think a lot has to do with their age rather than the environment. They have plenty of air flow. There are 6 thriving in the current setup. It seams some are being bullied out of food or just are not resourcefully enough to do it on their own.

 

[Julirs]

It is just too hard to come up with a reason for them dieing. I really have no luck at all with WC-I kept one alive for 5 months-optimal conditions, all eating up until the moment of death I swear! I had CB for well over a year but then the same thing happens.

 

[Roni013]

I had pygmy experts help me setup my enclosure for my pygmy girl and she only lasted 2 1/2 months, she seemed fine until the day before when I noticed her not moving around as much, then bam- dead. I love the little guys but its hard to know if they are eating, or drinking or if their growing at all! We will see how much better I do with a "real cham".
-still refuse to go veiled though

 

[chamelisa]

I don't know of anyone or read of anyone keeping pygs in a screen enclosure. Would you mind if I asked what your method of keeping them is? Do you keep them in a screen enclosure.

It would be difficult to provide the 3 + inches of substrate on the bottom. Maintain the humidity and provide a filtration method that keeps clean and stays moist and provide a laying medium. I would be hesitant to try to keep pygs different than the proven method used by a number of keepers. I am always open to suggestions but would be a little more comfortable if someone has tried this and has some setup recommendations.

A long time ago I kept R. brevicaudatus in a small screened enclosure but I don't think it was ideal because I couldn't control the humidity as well. You can still have a substrate in the bottom of the cage. I used peatmoss and sand with green live moss on top. Line the edges where the screen is with sphagnum moss and put the loose soil (I used peat moss and sand) toward the middle. There were various plants planted directly into the substrate.

I have also tried a large terrarium with substrate, plants and a humidifier. It didn't work. Worst mistake yet.

Now I have a planted glass terrarium with a foam insert that I got from Reptile Depot. There is running water but no pooling water. I keep just enough in there to keep the fountain running. There are pockets of moss for egg laying, but it's not throughout.

Keeping pygmies is in a class by itself. I bought some for a friend but after I got them here I thought maybe I should try keeping them again. So I had to go get him all new ones.

You can get more pygmies from that supplier who gave us all the free samples yesterday. I got mine for $12 each. They are pretty young and so far so good.

I share your frustrations though with pygmies. I have no idea how I broke my own rule of "no more pygmy leaf chameleons."

 

[summoner12]

Ryan, sorry to hear about your pyg.