Dehydration + Blindness
- Thread starter ChameSecret
- Start date
JGspecial
Established Member
man, that sucks. sorry it had to go that way. mine went over night too with no signs at all he was going to go, i just found him at the bottom of the cage when i got home from work gasping and passing in his pj colors, there was nothing i could do. it looked like he threw up a huge wad of food and there was blood in it. the night before he was excellent climbing anything with tons of strength. im speaking about my guy in my avatar, not the current panther i have.
Lizzie The Chameleon
Avid Member
Yes, that's what happened to mine. It's so weird how 1 small thing that's not perfect can kill them
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm sorry for everyone that lost their chameleon.
In my experience they don't die for no reason and it isn't a small thing that kills them. I always open them up and have a look. Sometimes I can tell by looking at them, sometimes not. Sometimes I send stuff off to pathology. Doing your own necropsy is a good way to learn about chameleons.
Lizzie The Chameleon
Avid Member
That's actually a great idea. Unfortunately we were not thinking along those lines, I was crying my eyes out and I had to stay out of school for almost a week.
WAMBO
Chameleon Enthusiast
I worry abut my husbandry skills every day, for the sake of my cham. I follow the caresheets and don't stray from them. Other needs, I read this forum to get the right info. If there comes a point that I realize that he needs better care, I made a couple friends here that live close enough to take him. I'll just provide the additional set up and money for food.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm so sorry. I can understand your not being able to do it yourself.
I have only done one necropsy--actually the vet did and I just watched--on a favorite animal where I was balling my eyes out so I can understand your reluctance. You can put them in the fridge (do not freeze) and wait a day or have a vet do it. My vet's have charged about $100 to do a necropsy. Pathology is a lot more, but often the likely cause of death is obvious. That first cut can be hard, no doubt about it.
Because I have a large collection, finding or ruling out the cause of death is important. Sometimes understanding why an animal dies is important for the pet owner. It helps to understand one's failings and tweak husbandry. It might help to relieve guilt.
Animals dying is not normal. I think the hobby accepts that chameleons die in great numbers, but I don't. I think dying animals are the canary in the coal mine and something is amiss with husbandry.
Lizzie The Chameleon
Avid Member
I got her as a birthday gift from pet smart (we did research for almost a year before getting one and had the proper setup before we got her) we also knew that petsmart was horrible in caring for animals, but we came in there to get some dog beds and had seen other chams, but when I saw Lizzie, I knew she was the one. The vet said that she had a calcium deficiency when we took her (the day we got her) and she got a few calcium shots and all was well. We dusted the crickets and gutloaded them properly. We went back to the vet because she had a piece of shedding in her eye (she was gravid at that time) and the vet said that they would keep her overnight and give her a shot to absorb the follicles so that they could get the shedding out. The day we got her back she was stiff, but still alive. The next morning she was dead in her tank. We still really have no idea what happened except for possible just too much stress.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I question my husbandry all the time, too.
I don't think chameleons are particularly hard to keep and if someone is prepared to buy them a good misting system and maybe a fogger, proper lighting and set them up in appropriate caging, most species should do very well in the hands of even a novice owner. It isn't rocket science.
I think the care sheets are important, but more important is a deep understanding of where the animal came from. It goes beyond the country of origin. Where in that country? Which side of the mountain are they found--the leeward (dry side) or the windward side? How high up the mountain or how close to the coast? Even if you know the exact geographical location they are commonly collected from (which will give you seasonal rainfall and temps), where are they actually found--low to the ground on bushes or high in trees?
Not only should we think of current climate, but ancient climates when chameleons evolved. Take the Veiled chameleon which is found in the southwest of the Arabian Peninsula. That's a pretty harsh climate. It recently dawned on me that although they might be able to survive in pockets of habitat in that very harsh environment, the current climate might not necessarily be the kind of climate they evolved or thrive in. It is only recent that archeologists are realizing Saudi Arabia was not an empty desert 200,000 years ago, but had lakes and rivers and evidence of human habitation right smack in the middle of The Empty Quarter, the world's largest desert. I've seen it with my own eyes, having collected prehistoric sharks' teeth and mollusks from the middle of the Arabian Peninsula.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I think a lot of veiled chameleons hatch--HATCH--calcium deficient caused by generations of females being calcium deficient. An egg contains enough calcium and Vitamin A to last the baby for months. I've heard that breeders take one clutch from a female and then dispatch her.
Your description of what happened doesn't make sense to me. I can't think of any reason for them to keep her overnight. I don't know of any shots vets give to stop/reverse follicles in reptiles. Vets can give birds hormone shots to stop egg production but I have never heard of that with reptiles. I would be questioning the vet about what they actually did and if you are not mistaken about what transpired, I would be looking for a new vet.
Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. I don't think a necropsy would have shown anything unless the vet nicked a vein or artery when giving the injections which can happen with fatal consequences.
Chachi
Established Member
I agree with jajeanpierre. I know a little about chams and I have never heard of a shot for follicle absorption. I would surely have used it. I don't understand the overnight stay or the release when the little girl was 'stiff'. My gosh, I would have totally y freaked out! I'm sorry you lost her.
jannb
Chameleon Enthusiast
I have heard of an injection to prevent egg laying in female chameleons. In the past a couple members here on the forums have used them. I ask my vet about them and he said he didn't feel they were safe and would never give one to one of my chameleons.
Lizzie The Chameleon
Avid Member
I'm starting to wonder if it was all a scam because we paid almost 1k for that vet visit and she was dead the next day...
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
I'm starting to wonder if it was all a scam because we paid almost 1k for that vet visit and she was dead the next day...
For $1000 you would have received an itemized bill. I would LOVE to see what was on that bill.
Lizzie The Chameleon
Avid Member
I'll try to find ih
Chachi
Established Member
Really. Wow. My vet has never said a word about that but, if I remember correctly, you have the guru of veterinary medicine regarding chameleons. Unfortunately, I don't. Lol.
WAMBO
Chameleon Enthusiast
It's probably akin to something that stops or reduces ovulation.
jajeanpierre
Chameleon Enthusiast
Vets use Lupron for birds.
ChameSecret
Member
Hey,
Sorry to keep everyone in suspense. I had a necropsy performed a few days ago. While the veterinarian did not find anything abnormal in the thoracic exam, it does appear that deNo did undergo some neurological damage in his right hemisphere. From the look of it, my guess is it was a stroke. The veterinarian did not get that specific, but from my graduate school and research experience with mammalian brains (not the same, I know), that is my best guess without paying them another $150 (which I do not have) for histological analysis. That sort of explains the vestibular + visual problems, but not, IMHO, the lack of swallowing reflexes near the end. I wonder if these reflex arcs are spinally or CNS-localized in reptiles....
Anyway, that provided a few answers. Thanks to everyone for caring/posting.
Sorry to keep everyone in suspense. I had a necropsy performed a few days ago. While the veterinarian did not find anything abnormal in the thoracic exam, it does appear that deNo did undergo some neurological damage in his right hemisphere. From the look of it, my guess is it was a stroke. The veterinarian did not get that specific, but from my graduate school and research experience with mammalian brains (not the same, I know), that is my best guess without paying them another $150 (which I do not have) for histological analysis. That sort of explains the vestibular + visual problems, but not, IMHO, the lack of swallowing reflexes near the end. I wonder if these reflex arcs are spinally or CNS-localized in reptiles....
Anyway, that provided a few answers. Thanks to everyone for caring/posting.
