Do chameleons dream?

[Chameleonsthecoolest]

I walked in on my new Jackson today and he was shaking his head in his sleep. So I was wondering if its possible for them to dream.

 

[qdude46]

It's possible I mean dogs can so why not chameleons. Although it's possible that he may have just been trying to get a comfortable sleeping position.

 

[Chameleonsthecoolest]

Yeah I just saw a few crickets that got out of their feeding cup so one could have been on him and he was trying to shake it off.

 

[Mredhorse]

Not sure about chameleons, but I have a one eyed turtle and he dreams.
He pretends to swim while he is sleeping on his basking rock and takes bites out of his dream superworms.
So why not a chameleon----probably checking out them juice bugs.

 

[Psychobunny]

It's possible I mean dogs can so why not chameleons. Although it's possible that he may have just been trying to get a comfortable sleeping position.

Mammals have a more advanced brain, that's why they can dream.

Reptiles do not, they only have a primitive brain stem and nervous system.

Dreaming (as we know it) involves the interaction of several brain area's,
including the prefrontal cortex, which chams do not have, only mammals.

With that said, there is very little known about the reptile brain, so they may still be able to go into a kind of dream state.
Most of our vivid dreaming occurs during REM stage, we don't know if reptiles have the the brain structures required for that.
We don't even know if reptiles even DO sleep like mammals, or simply go into a kind of 'dormant' state.

 

[ridgebax1]

I would think their state of sleep is different than ours. Fish do not sleep, they sort of hang out at the bottom of the tank. I notice that Omar will often sleep in a vertical position holding on tightly to his vine. If they would have the same sleep state I would think they would not be able to hold on the branches (vertically or horizontally). Mammals at different points in sleep are "paralyzed" during dream states, I think. So we are totally relaxed and could not maintain a position like the chams.
It suggests to me that because of their primitive brain structure they do not need to have such a sleep state. Additionally, I think it is also an survival thing so as a prey animal they may be able to awaken more quickly and escape the predator.

 

[Mredhorse]

Great topic!

 

[Kenny C]

Very interesting I have wondered the same thing.

 

[Mredhorse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_g_Eb7H0yI

This little bearded seems to be dreaming of some juicy fruit or some tasty worms.

I believe they do something besides shutting down.--Just my opinion
There is a baby tortoise and water dragon doing similar things could just be muscle twitches.

 

[Psychobunny]

I would think their state of sleep is different than ours. Fish do not sleep, they sort of hang out at the bottom of the tank. I notice that Omar will often sleep in a vertical position holding on tightly to his vine. If they would have the same sleep state I would think they would not be able to hold on the branches (vertically or horizontally). Mammals at different points in sleep are "paralyzed" during dream states, I think. So we are totally relaxed and could not maintain a position like the chams.
It suggests to me that because of their primitive brain structure they do not need to have such a sleep state. Additionally, I think it is also an survival thing so as a prey animal they may be able to awaken more quickly and escape the predator.

Exactly, the brain shuts the motor functions down in deep sleep, like paralized, so that we can not "act out" our dreams and injure ourselves.

 

[ChamAllen]

Shakescham said it best...

To be a cham, or not to be a cham, that is the question—

Whether 'tis Nobler in the limbic mind to suffer
The Slings and Arrows of outrageous Ferrets,

Or to take Arms against a Sea of male competitors,

And by opposing, kick them off the branch.

To die, to sleep—

No more; and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache of an extra short rainy season, and the thousand Natural shocks That these chromatiforic skin cells are heir to? 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished.

To die, to sleep,

To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub.

 

[Lathis]

and by a sleep, to say we end
The Heart-ache of an extra short rainy season, and the thousand Natural shocks That these chromatiforic skin cells are heir to?

Omg I'm dying . This is hilarious!

 

[FlChamMom]

I just laughed out loud. At work.

 

[Mredhorse]

Well,
After doing some research (which is all over the place) the science world states a few things about reptiles.

1. Mammals are related and have evolved from reptilian ancestors.
2. Reptiles do not have a dream state (in-between sleep and awake)
3. Some reptiles experience REM but REM does not mean an animal/reptile will dream.
Problems with science--- (what they have determined, not me)
1. Some say reptiles don't sleep.
2. Some say dreams are memories, reptiles have memories, and are capable of learning. (good foods, predators, situations, territorial etc...)
This was tricky: If reptiles were dreaming they would change colors as they would experience mood issues. ---Since they don't change colors, this means they don't dream---Since they don't change colors, this means they are sleeping, just not dreaming. (yes, I am confused at this point) {This was gathered from a few different papers, not just one author}

The ideology of primitive brain structure does not fly with everyone, since smaller animals dream more than more advanced animals, and is species independent. Same goes with sleep and the association with REM (rapid eye movement)..

The latest data found indicates they do not dream but further testing is needed.

Sorry so lengthy but there is no 100% proof either way, since dreaming is not 100% understood, and it varies so much among the animal kingdom.

It is important to know that their is little or no brain activity during the stage the eyes are closed. {now I don't know if they are even sleeping or not, or why they close their eyes at all} I just might be more confused no than before.

 

[Kenny C]

Well,
After doing some research (which is all over the place) the science world states a few things about reptiles.

1. Mammals are related and have evolved from reptilian ancestors.
2. Reptiles do not have a dream state (in-between sleep and awake)
3. Some reptiles experience REM but REM does not mean an animal/reptile will dream.
Problems with science--- (what they have determined, not me)
1. Some say reptiles don't sleep.
2. Some say dreams are memories, reptiles have memories, and are capable of learning. (good foods, predators, situations, territorial etc...)
This was tricky: If reptiles were dreaming they would change colors as they would experience mood issues. ---Since they don't change colors, this means they don't dream---Since they don't change colors, this means they are sleeping, just not dreaming. (yes, I am confused at this point) {This was gathered from a few different papers, not just one author}

The ideology of primitive brain structure does not fly with everyone, since smaller animals dream more than more advanced animals, and is species independent. Same goes with sleep and the association with REM (rapid eye movement)..

The latest data found indicates they do not dream but further testing is needed.

Sorry so lengthy but there is no 100% proof either way, since dreaming is not 100% understood, and it varies so much among the animal kingdom.

It is important to know that their is little or no brain activity during the stage the eyes are closed. {now I don't know if they are even sleeping or not or why they close their eyes at all} I just might be more confused no than before.

Thank you for that very interesting read! But while Golem is in his "sleep state", I have seen him change colors at times I have seen him get dark or even get black dots as if he were having a "bad dream".

 

[Mredhorse]

Thanks for the info:
I would record and get the info to some of the scientist studying the issue.
My personal opinion is there is more that what is known..

There are general rules to go by and many unexplained anomalies.

I am old school and most of what I was taught in the 70's and 80's does not even come close to the truth now. (Heck, I don't even know how to use my 1 year old smart phone properly)

For such a great and evolved species here on earth, we as humans have done the most destruction is such a short period of time. (proven by science, just overlooked and ignored by political agendas)
So I don't always believe what I am told anymore and even question the truth at times.

 

[Chris Anderson]

The short answer is we really don't know. Studies on the neurophysiology of reptiles are far fewer than in mammals and some other vertebrates and what has been done is typically inconclusive.

There has been one study on sleep in chameleons and it found that brief periods of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep is present in chameleons while sleeping, at least in the form of unilateral eye movements. Electroencephalograms, however, suggest no true REM sleep occurs (no change in the EEG trace between periods of REM and no eye movement). That said, their recordings were made in the telencephalon and recordings from the brain stem would really need to be made to confirm a lack of REM sleep. Now, REM sleep does not necessarily mean dreaming in mammals, and we really don't know if reptiles brains would be similar anyway in that regard.

Chris

 

[Chuck G]

I had a dream about a Calumma Globifer with Chris Andersons head on his body.
He shall be called Calumma Andersonii. Chrisizzle for short.

 

[LordOfTheChameleon]

I like to think Sammy dreams about endless butterworms and hot female chameleons to mate with all day in an exotic jungle at the perfect humidity

 

[Mredhorse]

lol TOO FUNNY!