Do you still think my cham is a male?
- Thread starter zsazsa85
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broderp
Avid Member
I've read this thread with great interest over the debate of gender of this little cham.
Since there are valid arguements on both sides, what the chance this little cha, is an anomoly and a mixture of both?
I'm not saying a transgender cham, but a female with small spurs or a male with female coloring kind of thing.
I read in a book about a male cham that NEVER developed his colors and as such never was able to attract a mate. He was a plain green as any female, but definatly had spurs.
Since there are valid arguements on both sides, what the chance this little cha, is an anomoly and a mixture of both?
I'm not saying a transgender cham, but a female with small spurs or a male with female coloring kind of thing.
I read in a book about a male cham that NEVER developed his colors and as such never was able to attract a mate. He was a plain green as any female, but definatly had spurs.
teejayteej
New Member
zsazsa85
Established Member
Wow this is very interesting. I haven't thought about that! If one day he/she start to dig, then the mystery is solved.
What are the chances of a cham being a transgender? Have you ever read about that? I know, nature can be tricky.
zsazsa85
Established Member
Sorry I meant he/she was 5" including the tail, when I got her. Now she/he is about 9" long with the tail.
zsazsa85
Established Member
I am going to say male.
In 3 of the pictures (3, 4 & 5 in the first post and 2 in the second) I can see a spurr. The bets one is the 3rd in the first post, but in the 2nd in the 2nd post you can see it too. I just observed Yuki walking and when she has her hind leg in that position too, where the leg and the base of the foot connect it's perfectly flat/straight. In your picture, his leg makes an L, which is how Ryuu's looks.
His casque looks more male than female. His is already much larger that Yuk's, who has a fairly large casque already for a female. His is more triangular and tall, and it will get taller!
Thirdly, I know this isn't the typical way of telling a veiled gender, so I am not sure how correct it is, but your chameleon's bum is lower, more protruding than Yuki's is, and more like Ryuu's, which is, imho, a sign that he has man-parts.
Lastly, I think his colouring is more male, he's just starting to get them. I would guesstimate his age at around 5 months. He also seems to be a "late bloomer". Why do I think his colouring is more male? Look at his tail, it had large bands on it. All the pictures of female veileds I have looked at do not have these large bands, only the males and their extravagant colouring! Females tend to have smaller bands and double pairings between the spots.
My guess is to wait another month or two, then you will start seeing his true colours shine!
Long story short: Your cham looks a lot more like Ryuu does at 3 months than Yuki at 3 months. I will say male.
In 3 of the pictures (3, 4 & 5 in the first post and 2 in the second) I can see a spurr. The bets one is the 3rd in the first post, but in the 2nd in the 2nd post you can see it too. I just observed Yuki walking and when she has her hind leg in that position too, where the leg and the base of the foot connect it's perfectly flat/straight. In your picture, his leg makes an L, which is how Ryuu's looks.
His casque looks more male than female. His is already much larger that Yuk's, who has a fairly large casque already for a female. His is more triangular and tall, and it will get taller!
Thirdly, I know this isn't the typical way of telling a veiled gender, so I am not sure how correct it is, but your chameleon's bum is lower, more protruding than Yuki's is, and more like Ryuu's, which is, imho, a sign that he has man-parts.
Lastly, I think his colouring is more male, he's just starting to get them. I would guesstimate his age at around 5 months. He also seems to be a "late bloomer". Why do I think his colouring is more male? Look at his tail, it had large bands on it. All the pictures of female veileds I have looked at do not have these large bands, only the males and their extravagant colouring!
Females tend to have smaller bands and double pairings between the spots.My guess is to wait another month or two, then you will start seeing his true colours shine!
Long story short: Your cham looks a lot more like Ryuu does at 3 months than Yuki at 3 months. I will say male.
zsazsa85
Established Member
They're about to go to sleep right now, so I'll try and get some pictures of them tomorrow!
You can even come back after his next shed with more pictures, maybe he will have more colour then
Deal!
Thanks!
teejayteej
New Member
looks more like a crease where the foot is on the branch .... to answer the question to the 5th picture.
broderp
Avid Member
Males have spuds on the back of their hind feet. He is definitely a male! He is beautiful by the way
I bet the OP wishes it were that simple.
The spuds, (actually called spurs I believe) are very tiny and could possibly be just how the skin is folded. My cham at that age and size as well as most others I have ever seen it is VERY obvious the spurs are present. They liik like little "thumbs" and there is no doubt they are there. The OP needs a much closer and clearer picture with better lighting to be sure.
ridgebax1
Avid Member
The whole point of male/female in the animal world is passing on one's genes in an effort to improve the species. It is not until you look at complex social animals that one gets into the transgender debate. I suppose it is possible for a less complex animal like a reptile to be hermaphroditic, snails are I think and so are some worms. It even happens very rarely in humans. I would bet that a hermaphroditic chameleon would not survive very long (although in captivity, survival chances may be better) but this is a debate for a whole other topic!!! But I still go with female.Wow this is very interesting. I haven't thought about that! If one day he/she start to dig, then the mystery is solved.
What are the chances of a cham being a transgender? Have you ever read about that? I know, nature can be tricky.
brownie64
Avid Member
still think its a male
He should already be showing his colors in full bloom by now, but what colors he does show could be both, but I lean towards male.
I have a great idea. Take him and put him in front of a mirror. Males are very territorial if he is indeed a male he should puff up his colors should become bright. If he don't because his colors aren't in yet, he should still get mad and puff up at the image of himself if he is indeed a he.
Not that I would condone doing this on a regular basis, it would cause undo stress on him/her.
He should already be showing his colors in full bloom by now, but what colors he does show could be both, but I lean towards male.
I have a great idea. Take him and put him in front of a mirror. Males are very territorial if he is indeed a male he should puff up his colors should become bright. If he don't because his colors aren't in yet, he should still get mad and puff up at the image of himself if he is indeed a he.
Not that I would condone doing this on a regular basis, it would cause undo stress on him/her.
