Do you trust your chameleon to thermoregulate?

[GrogStudio]

Wherever my guy is-- in the cage, free roaming on his ficus or on the screened patio-- he always seems to choose a favorite basking spot and just hangs there, even when it gets hot and he starts gaping.

If he's in his cage, I turn down the basking light (I keep the temp between 85 and 90-- usually about 87) and he stops gaping. But he rarely leaves his preferred basking spot except to do a little patrolling or eating and then back to his spot. He does sometimes go to his sleeping spot early, though. He has no signs of a RI-- no mucus or labored breathing or lethargy.

I just built him his third cage and put lots of dowels at slightly different levels so he has even more options for basking but he hasn't used the different levels much yet. The cage is full of live plants and is quite tall so he has lots of temperature options beyond the dowels.

Do I really need to keep my eye on the temp or will he eventually move on his own if he gets super hot?

*Your Chameleon– Male veiled just over a year old and in my home about 8 months.

Handling– He loves coming out. I usually let him hang on ficus or screened patio (in summer) several times/week

Feeding – He gets pickier as he get older. Mostly hornworms, superworms and crickets these days. We gave up and sold our dubia colony. Has also eaten butterworms and phoenix worms and soldier flies (as well as wax and mealworms) but not lately. He has eaten red pepper, yams, carrots, apple, melon, strawberries, blueberries, and raspberries but his current favorite is grapes. Won't eat greens (except his plants) so I gutload mostly with greens (e.g., dandelion, collards) and bug burger. He mostly cup feeds.

Supplements – Reptivite calcium daily, reptivite mulitvitamin and flukers calcium with D3 2x/ month.

Watering – I mist 2-6 times daily depending on cage humidity and I set up drippers for about an hour 1-2x/ day. Rarely see him drink but has always had white urates.

Fecal Description – Black w/ white urate. If I see any hint of yellow I soak his veggies super well and increase mistings.

History - I had no intention of getting a chameleon but he was in a way-too-small glass cage (about 8 inches square) at a petshop and he convinced me to try to do better by him. (I know purchasing in petshop has complex ethics).

Cage Info:
Cage Type – Just moved him to a converted corner china cabinet, about 46 high x 38 wide at widest, but tapers to corner.
Lighting – 100 watt heat bulb on a dimmer and 5.0 UVB tube by reptisun.
Temperature – Ambient temp around 70 but there are lots of cool spots if he wants as the cage if FULL of live plants. Basking about 87. Lowest overnight 62 (higher in summer). Have digital probes for temp and humidity.
Humidity – The swamp cooler was great in the summer but humidity is a challenge in the winter. He has shower curtain liners around most of cage, and I have a fogger and 2 room humidifiers to help.
Plants – Pothos, shefflera and dracena.
Placement – Cage is in my studio so I keep an eye on temp and humidity all day and he sees me regularly.

Location - Colorado

 

[Lathis]

I love my Jax Ferdinand, but he can be really dumb. If he has an opportunity to sit too close to the heat lamp and gets overheated, he will just sit there gaping and turning pale. I keep an eye on his basking spot temperatures because he will not move away when it's too hot.

(Curiously, in his outdoor cage, he doesn't seem to have this problem and will migrate into a shady spot when he gets too warm. I have always assumed it's something to do with the mental effect of a spot of bright light versus natural sun.)

That being said, I think providing "zones" in the enclosure is very important, like you have done. I have a warm/dry zone under the basking light that never gets sprayed by the mister; a warm/wet zone where he can sit and be misted or dripped on; a cool/dark zone with heavy foliage, and a cool/light zone with less foliage but away from the basking lamp. Ferds will spend the morning in the warm/dry zone, then migrate all over.

I'd say if he's gaping consistently, try to dial down the temperature by just 1-2 degrees. That may be enough to get the basking temps into the "sweet spot" your guy likes.

 

[GrogStudio]

Thanks so much for the feedback. Lathis. Grog seems equally hesitant to leave his chosen sunning spot indoors and out.

My family members think I'm a bit indulgent with the little guy so I thought maybe worrying about his basking temp all day could be another instance. But I guess I get to keep on worrying.

 

[Carlton]

Wherever my guy is-- in the cage, free roaming on his ficus or on the screened patio-- he always seems to choose a favorite basking spot and just hangs there, even when it gets hot and he starts gaping.

If he's in his cage, I turn down the basking light (I keep the temp between 85 and 90-- usually about 87) and he stops gaping. But he rarely leaves his preferred basking spot except to do a little patrolling or eating and then back to his spot. He does sometimes go to his sleeping spot early, though. He has no signs of a RI-- no mucus or labored breathing or lethargy.

Do I trust the cham to thermoregulate? Answer IMHO is "sort of". The reason I say that is because we are subjecting them to a captive situation instead of the wild one they are so finely adapted to handling. In the wild, they would absolutely thermoregulate, or they wouldn't survive. In captivity under artificial lighting, they can end up getting overheated a bit easier due to the way we provide heat. Basking lights create a very focused intense beam of heat and the rest of the cage may be significantly cooler. The cham naturally climbs up to the bright light (as the source of heat too), but may sit unmoving too long under it. They are trying to warm up their interior to an optimal temp for digestion etc, but in the process can end up with a skin burn. They actually don't have that many temp receptors where they might do the most good in that situation. Sure they start gaping when they are getting too warm, but I suspect this is when their internal organs are getting too warm. Their skin might reach this point sooner.

I also think that even if we offer them lots of traveling perches at different heights they would still prefer NOT to climb down to lower levels even to cool off. Instead, if we provide varying levels of shade and sun at the same height they might prefer to move horizontally instead. Chams in larger cages that offer more horizontal room as well as free ranges might not get burned as often because they can move out of that intense beam of heat yet still be warm. If the whole upper part of the cage is too warm or dry they can then move lower.

I think many of our cages are TOO vertically-oriented. Yes, we "get" the whole idea behind providing vertical gradients, but without some room to move laterally as well this may be adding to the burn problem. Just my $0.02.

 

[Lathis]

My family members think I'm a bit indulgent with the little guy.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. He is 100% dependent on you for his care, so I think all prudent owners of any pet should spend a great deal of their time spoiling their tiny loved ones.

 

[Cait0420]

I agree!!

 

[fluxlizard]

My thinking is similar to Carltons- I think enough horizontal room is important and understressed in most caging. Most of us are keeping panthers or veileds that reach 14-23" in cages that are only 2' wide. That's not a lot of room to get up, stretch out, and actually walk somewhere.

But I do trust my chameleons to thermoregulate. They know what they are doing when provided with a true thermogradient to do it in. They have zillions of years of instinct and it is just as critical to their survival as the instincts of drinking and eating.

Think about it- if your force your chameleon to remain in the sun, it will overheat pretty fast on most sunny days because they build heat up in their body. Healthy wild chameleons aren't dropping dead when the day happens to not be cloudy simply because they are too instinctually challenged to move in and out of the sun to thermoregulate.

The problem is, many keepers are not very good at setting up a thermal gradient, and especially in a screen cage, it is easy to set up a simple "hot spot" in a cool cage without a real gradient. So it is more a question of "do I trust the thermal gradient I have set up is one that my lizard can use properly?" more than "do I trust my lizard to thermal-regulate?").

A thermal gradient provides a gradual change in heat, not a hot spot and a cold cage. Two different concepts. A simple hot spot is unnatural and is not what chameleon instinct is built to work with. If your lizard is faced with a cold cage and wants to keep warm, then yes, he will sit and may burn himself if your temperature is not exactly right in that hot spot (hot spots are more of a pain to keep track of- on a hot or cold day, the hot spot temperature changes- a gradient always has what the cham wants somewhere in it). If he is faced with a gradual temperature gradient, then he will not choose to sit and do this- he will select an area that is comfortable.

The other thing to think about though, is that it is perfectly normal for lizards to sit for a little while and gape in the hottest spot from time to time. Nothing wrong with it. Lizards have been shown to give themselves fevers if fighting infection, and sometimes they appear (at least to me) to want to get their "engines revving" a bit and heat up. Maybe to help with digestion or absorption of vitamins or conversion of uvb, maybe to activate their immune system or whatever. My lizards do this regardless of whether they are under artificial lighting or out in real sunlight. People and other animals are the same. Nobody things it odd if their dog sits by the fire or warms himself on the lawn in the sun and pants. Gaping in lizards and panting in dogs is pretty much the same thing in this situation, and is pretty normal for nearly all diurnal lizards some of the time.

 

[GrogStudio]

My thinking is similar to Carltons- I think enough horizontal room is important and understressed in most caging.
.. So it is more a question of "do I trust the thermal gradient I have set up is one that my lizard can use properly?" more than "do I trust my lizard to thermal-regulate?").

... if we provide varying levels of shade and sun at the same height they might prefer to move horizontally instead. ...I think many of our cages are TOO vertically-oriented.

Really interesting and helpful info. Thanks so much. I have definitely thought more about vertical zones. I'm going to try to pay more attention to whether Grog moves horizontally during the day. Though either way, he still gapes quite a bit and it's also helpful to hear this isn't necessarily bad.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that. He is 100% dependent on you for his care, so I think all prudent owners of any pet should spend a great deal of their time spoiling their tiny loved ones.

As I said, I never planned on getting a chameleon but he told me in no uncertain terms that I had to rescue him (I know some people will think I'm anthropomorphizing but I'm sticking to this story AND I have witnesses). The first couple of months he seemed like such an alien; so out of place in a cage in Colorado. As much as I loved having him around I really think if I could have bought him a one-way ticket to Yemen I would have done it. All this to say I am VERY aware of his 100% dependence on me in this foreign world he has found himself in.

And despite his total dependence on me for his physical needs, I am shockingly surprised how much I love/admire/am amused by his emotional independence. From what I've read on the forum, Grog is an unusually even-tempered and good-natured veiled chameleon but there's no danger of him groveling for my attention and love and caresses like my dogs and cat do. Which is kind of special. I just love my little ingrate.

 

[Juliaf3]

I agree with Carlton. Both my chams are in enclosures that are wider then they are tall. I don't see them going to lower parts of the enclosures unless they are hunting. I constantly see them at different areas at the upper region of the enclosures.

 

[sanitysake]

I agree with Carlton. Both my chams are in enclosures that are wider then they are tall. I don't see them going to lower parts of the enclosures unless they are hunting. I constantly see them at different areas at the upper region of the enclosures.

Me too! My cage is a Zilla 30Hx30Lx18W and I have noticed that my panther does not venture down to the lower 1/3 of his cage and usually stays in the upper half. I have lots of live plants and many bendable branches set up everywhere, and specifically so there are at least four different levels under the basking spot. But, he doesn't seem to step up and down as much as he moves sideways...his basking spot is between 80-90. It's been a little tricky lately adjusting the temps because where I am it's pretty cold outside already (20-30F), and he is nearby the window (I leave a little crack open for ventilation).

 

[pigglett79]

I do work to have a good thermal gradient in my cages without a basking spot that is too hot. None of my boys have ever sustained a burn or had any issue. I do see them roam their entire cage though. All three of my guys will go all the way to the bottom as well. I built my cages to be tall as well as wide and they do use both the horizontal and verticle space. They do tend to spend most of their time in the too half but my experience has been that they do also go down low at times as well.

Each individual is a bit different. I have one that loves to bask for long time periods and another who spends very little time basking. It seems that they figure out what they need on their own.

I find its the same w drinking. While two of my guys will drink plenty during misting sessions, the third won't and prefers use of a dripper.

Its all about figuring out what works for the individual and the situation. There really never is just one right method or answer.