dog or cat food deathly?
- Thread starter SarahChamlove
- Start date
fluxlizard
Avid Member
Yeah- I mean I don't know- specialists like silkworms I doubt it, generalists like crickets, probably so- I'm talking mostly roaches and guessing it applies to crickets here- guess I need to clear that up before things get too out of hand. The studies I have seen are for different species of roaches. (hissing was one, can't remember another, and then the study I cited earlier in this thread was another species).
I think I already pointed out that things change if you are using a lot of other insects in your chameleon diet- then of course the total content of what you feed your crickets and roaches becomes much less significant percentage wise, because so does the percentage insects that are fed some dog food being offered to the lizard.
Well, most species of feeder roaches or crickets are said to eat each other in this situation and solve the protein part by cannibalism.
In the case of your mix, they may simply select the tiny bits of your mix that smell more strongly of spirulina (protein content 65%), bee pollen (protein content 40%), etc to reach their preferred protein levels, and maintain that level for as long as those items are available in the mix.
Which is kind of my point- as long as any source of protein is available, studies are showing that they self-regulate- they will select and pick out what they need to maintain their preferred protein level.
Similarly those fed a diet that has dog food (purina one protein content 30%) as one part of it will ignore the dog food and consume the other stuff rather than exceed their protein intake once they have achieved their desired level. You could have 5" thick dog food on the bottom of the enclosure and they will keep a constant protein level the same as if you had only a small bowl of it in one corner, as long as you continue to also feed other food items that are lower in protein.
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SarahChamlove
New Member
I totally agree with what you just said, i have dog food in there and they don't eat much of it anyways. i get 3 dozen every couple of days because my girl can eat 10-15 per day or more. and every time i get a new crickets i put other veggies and foods in there to satify them.
fluxlizard
Avid Member
And at this point I think I better give a word of caution- Part of the reason I am arguing here is to see what I can learn from the argument.
I am not intending necessarily to promote without caution and lots of additional variety the use of dog food as part of a gutload.
I will admit that I sometimes use it as part of mine. I have had 1 chameleon in 20 years that I can ever recall having gout, and she came to me already with it.
And like all things nutritional, there is more to the issue than protein content-
preformed vit a, vit d (perhaps not an issue sometimes as many manufacturers sub d2 for d3 and d2 is useless to lizards last I heard), would be examples.
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SarahChamlove
New Member
LOL NO! But the funny thing is, they do feed their crickets with part dog food, part veggies, part bread, part fruit. coz i asked them what they gutload with.
I don't know why she wanted me to put hojuse gecko in there. After i was satified that i was right about that, I ran back up to the store adn told them if they do that, they will be paying for the next vet visit!!
I was not joking with them!
Pssh said..."if the roaches cannot get to another food that does not have such high protein, they have no choice in the matter (unless they have some way to solve this problem that i am unaware of"... exactly what I was thinking! If all they have to eat is the high protein food then how do they self-regulate without starving????
I'm more concerned with the D3 and the vitamin A content of the dog, cat, fish food than the protein.
I'm more concerned with the D3 and the vitamin A content of the dog, cat, fish food than the protein.
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
pssh
Avid Member
It was just an example. I mean, would cannibalism solve the problem if say, they were only fed spirulina? Wouldn't they all have the same protein content because they cannot choose another food item? I certainly do not think this type of situation (one food and one food only) is appropriate at all, but I am curious about it. I didn't mean with a varied diet but instead an extremely strict one.
Vit A content and D3 content are indeed something to consider, but if I were to ignore those things, I could be much more concerned with the type of protein it is rather than how much there is. That was my $0.02 on the whole protein debate when not considering other factors.
Vit A content and D3 content are indeed something to consider, but if I were to ignore those things, I could be much more concerned with the type of protein it is rather than how much there is. That was my $0.02 on the whole protein debate when not considering other factors.
Elizadolots
New Member
Isn't there a work around? Dry dog or cat food is convenient and inexpensive (particularly as it's usually pilfered from the pet's bowl). To me, it's fine for raising crickets. Crickets, by all accounts, empty out pretty fast, so why not save the good, pricey gutload experience for the crickets "on the chopping block"? If you're feeding on Tuesday, cull out the crickets you will be feeding and put them in a separate container with the good stuff for 24 hours before introducing them to the chameleon.
Amanda1801
New Member
IMO - feeding and gutloading are totally different concepts.
Yes, you can FEED your insects cat/dog food.
No, you shouldnt GUTLOAD them with cat/dog food (for reasons already stated).
Basically the gutloading rule I use, is would I feed it to my chameleon if it wasn't inside an insect?
SarahChamlove
New Member
okay, so what brands of gutload does everyone prefer? I'm gonna go to the store today and get some. Because i would like other things to be fed other then veggies
sandrachameleon
Chameleon Enthusiast
make your own gutload, and you'll be far better off.
Ellie And Me
New Member
Ive been have good luck with flulkers High-calcium cricket diet and i trow in some corrots for them. They seem to love the stuff and look pretty fat for feeding time. Thats just what i do and it seems to work but ive been wrong before.
I rember when the fda recalled all them dog foods for getting our pets sick and killing a few. I would stay away from it.
I rember when the fda recalled all them dog foods for getting our pets sick and killing a few. I would stay away from it.
Amanda1801
New Member
Make your own - then there's no need for additives like colours and preservatives
