Drinking problems

[lukjak]

Hi Chameleon Forums!

Chameleon Info:

• Your Chameleon - Veiled male - about 10 month old - in my care for about 9 months
• Handling - not much, maybe once a week and it's just because I want him to have some direct sunlight
• Feeding - 2 grasshoppers per day (6 times per week) - gutloaded mostly with carrots and apples
• Supplements - Zoo Med's calcium without D3 every feeding and Zoo Med's multivitamin with D3 once per week.
• Watering - I mist by hand about 3 times per day - now I have also a dripper
• Fecal Description - consistency is good and the color also, urate is a bit yellow (which refers to our problem)

Cage Info:

• Cage Type - via photos
• Lighting - UVB and basking light, both by Zoo Med's
• Temperature - lowest is about 75 F (25 C) even in the night - it's just this hot in here and I am not sure how to drop the temperature down. At his basking spot it's around 92 F (33 C).
• Humidity - around 40 - 70 %.. depends on the misting
• Plants - I have larger Hibiscus, two photoses, bromelie and one more, which i forgot the name (but it's safe - I checked it)
• Placement - I believe it's large enough for veiled male. The top is around 30 cm above my eye level. In the corner of my room. Not high traffic.
• Location - Central Europe

Current Problem - Yesterday when I was feeding him, I noticed he can't shoot his tongue like always and the prey does not "stick" to his tongue. I was very worried so I took him to the vet in the evening. The vet told me he looks very well and the tongue is okey too. I persuade the vet to take the blood tests and the blood is also good (there is a bit higher level of phosphorus, but it's not a big deal he said). But it could be from dehydratation. The thing is, when he was younger, he was used to to a little exoterra glass enclosure and he was drinking from the glass walls. But he was obviously too big for it so I made this custom enclosure, which I believe is really good for him. The problem is he looks like he's not interested to water on the leaves at all. Is it possible he just learnt to drink from the glass and he will never drink from leaves?

I hope some more experienced keeper will help!

Thank you!
Lukas

 

[CasparChameleon]

Maybe you could try to add some branches in the enclosure for him to climb on. My cham also prefers licking the branches to get water rather than licking the leaves, so you could try that.

 

[Angelwolf]

Much more foliage is needed. My cham prefers to lap up the droplets hanging from the vines. Make sure you are spraying for at least 3 minutes, minimum, each time you spray. You want to replicate the rainforest after a rain.

 

[lukjak]

Oh I'm sorry @CasparChameleon and @Angelwolf . The photo of the enclosure is not the latest. There is a large hibiscus and also some more branches. I edited the original post - there is a new photo now.

 

[Remkon]

• Feeding - 2 grasshoppers per day (6 times per week) - gutloaded mostly with carrots and apples
• Watering - I mist by hand about 3 times per day - now I have also a dripper

I'd feed a larger variety of feeders than only grasshoppers and 2 grasshoppers isn't a whole lot either for a chameleon in growth.

Watering I'd highly recommend to automate it.
Reason for this is that some chameleons are shy about drinking and with you misting it they will likely could be reluctant to do so. Another thing is that you may not mist long enough with your 3x a day by hand... My mister goes off for ~18 minutes a day in total which is good for 10liters, I would have to fill my handmister 10x to do that.

 

[lukjak]

Thank you for the response. I agree and the automatic misting system is already on the way. But is it gonna help him learn to drink from leaves? From the glass he was drinking normally in front of me. And the thing which scares me the most - how should I feed him now, when his tongue is weak because of dehydration? And is it normal for chameleons to bad tongue function when dehydrated?

 

[etclement]

Tongue troubles, and the high level of phosphorus, indicate a calcium deficiency. You seem to be dusting with calcium enough, but grasshoppers may be too high in phosphorus to let that calcium get to the cham (Couldn't find a phosphorus amount in grasshoppers online). Try feeding a better variety, stay away from grasshoppers, and gutload with more greens like collard greens, or kale, or even butternut squash etc. Also, not sure if someone said this, but 92F is too high for basking. Lower it to more around Mid-Low 80s.

 

[CasparChameleon]

Oh I'm sorry @CasparChameleon and @Angelwolf . The photo of the enclosure is not the latest. There is a large hibiscus and also some more branches. I edited the original post - there is a new photo now.

Good to know!

 

[Angelwolf]

Another thing is that you may not mist long enough with your 3x a day by hand... My mister goes off for ~18 minutes a day in total which is good for 10liters, I would have to fill my handmister 10x to do that.

What can I say, @Remkon! Go big, or go home!!

 

[lukjak]

Tongue troubles, and the high level of phosphorus, indicate a calcium deficiency. You seem to be dusting with calcium enough, but grasshoppers may be too high in phosphorus to let that calcium get to the cham (Couldn't find a phosphorus amount in grasshoppers online). Try feeding a better variety, stay away from grasshoppers, and gutload with more greens like collard greens, or kale, or even butternut squash etc. Also, not sure if someone said this, but 92F is too high for basking. Lower it to more around Mid-Low 80s.

Thank you very much for the response and ideas. I will definitely try to feed better variety of feeders and will change the gutloading. Here I have a question. Is it okey to gutload for example the collard greens from the store? Could there be any problem with any bad substances from the grow? I will also try to lower the basking spot temperature - with moving the basking lamp higher I guess.

 

[kinyonga]

If your chameleon is developing a calcium imbalance it needs to be corrected. Did the vet not mention that?

 

[lukjak]

If your chameleon is developing a calcium imbalance it needs to be corrected. Did the vet not mention that?

@kinyonga Hi kinyonga! How should it be corrected? In the end the vet just told me, that if it's not get better in a week, I should come and he's gonna give some phosphorus reducing medicine to my cham.

 

[lukjak]

but grasshoppers may be too high in phosphorus to let that calcium get to the cham (Couldn't find a phosphorus amount in grasshoppers online).

@etclement I did also find this: "According to the growth rate hypothesis, P-rich insects have higher growth rates."

Is it possible, that commercial feeders are high on phosphorus, because of it? What is the best option then?

 

[JacksJill]

I will definitely try to feed better variety of feeders and will change the gutloading. Here I have a question. Is it okey to gutload for example the collard greens from the store? Could there be any problem with any bad substances from the grow?

Try to buy the organic vegetables, they are grown without pesticides and weed killer. If none are available wash the heck out of what you can find.

 

[etclement]

@etclement I did also find this: "According to the growth rate hypothesis, P-rich insects have higher growth rates."

Is it possible, that commercial feeders are high on phosphorus, because of it? What is the best option then?

Commercial feeders aren't going to be super good for your cham, so I recommend breeding them. That said, commercial dubia and crickets have been feed as a staple by some people for a long time with no ill effects.

 

[kinyonga]

Usually liquid calcium sandoz or liquid calcium gluconateis used to improve the calcium to phosphorous ratio. Feeding/gutloading your insects with an appropriate diet (crickets, superworms, grasshoppers/locusts can be fed dandelion greens, kale, endive, escarole, squash, carrots, zucchini, sweet potato, sweet red pepper, etc and a bit of fruit such as melon, berries, apples, pears, etc.) and dusting properly with supplements (as you were told in this thread https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/my-veiled-crooked-casque-mbd.154493/ ) and keeping the basking temperature in the right range (mid 80's F) are also important. Many not the feeder insects have a poor ratio of calcium to phosphorous so we try to balance it.