Dubia or Green Banana Roaches?

[dudeking]

So I've researched and researched on roaches lately, I've wanted to start a Dubia colony as it appears many fellow cham owners on the forums love these.

But the last few days I've been looking at the P. Nivea - Green Banana roach.

You know, it's not even the sound that crickets make, I actually enjoy the chirping; reminds me of hiking and camping and such. I just can't take that rank cricket smell anymore. Washing out that bin just makes me SICK. And living in Chinatown doesn't help either, goin' outside for a breath of fresh air doesn't quite help. And the whole breeding and keeping my costs down seems prudent.

But a couple days ago I found out about these Green Banana Roaches that live in Texas, Florida, Mexico, Cuba... and other North and Central American Tropics, (finally! pretty green roaches!), they sound just perfect for a feeder colony. They definitely won't start an escapee base in a Canadian house as they are tropical/subtropical and need a lot of heat and humidity, won't last a cool night. Green bugs apparently are very attractive to chameleons. I've read on a couple other threads that even the most picky cham would eat these little guys.

the climbing and flying doesn't sound very great to deal with, but I used the nifty searchamabob and read on this forum:

"They like to be down in the substrate (even the adults) I never had any fly out of the container when I opened it."

however:

"I did find them difficult to feed if the chameleon did not "zap" them right away. They won't stay in a feeder cup and they are good hiders."

The fact that they're attracted to warmth and artificial lights like a moth should be helpful, (They'll head right for the beast!)?

Does anyone know what their growth rate is like? Or how many I would need in a colony to replace crickets as the staple for my adult panther cham as sayyy... 70% of his food source?

I realize that they are not quite as large as Dubia, and I will need to feed him more... individuals... but these bugs are so pretty I would make that sacrifice. I would almost WANT to show my tub of cockroaches to my friends! And I could always give away some little males to some friends with smaller lizards.

So there's The normal Green banana roach, M~14mm, F~24mm, (~1")
*Giant* Green Banana roach : males ~14mm, females ~38mm (~1.5")

I've read that they require practically exactly the same setup as Dubia + more humidity and soil substrate for nymphs to burrow in.

For the life of me I can't find anyone selling these to the Canadians! Any members near Toronto breeding some to sell/send??

And the fact that I'll have plenty of little males and nymphs will help me next year when Clementine is fully grown as I plan to get some Praying Mantis going too, and again, I won't want to deal with crickets all that much.

So whats the word? Anyone with first-hand experience?

 

[clarkrw3]

So I've researched and researched on roaches lately, I've wanted to start a Dubia colony as it appears many fellow cham owners on the forums love these.

But the last few days I've been looking at the P. Nivea - Green Banana roach.

You know, it's not even the sound that crickets make, I actually enjoy the chirping; reminds me of hiking and camping and such. I just can't take that rank cricket smell anymore. Washing out that bin just makes me SICK. And living in Chinatown doesn't help either, goin' outside for a breath of fresh air doesn't quite help. And the whole breeding and keeping my costs down seems prudent.

But a couple days ago I found out about these Green Banana Roaches that live in Texas, Florida, Mexico, Cuba... and other North and Central American Tropics, (finally! pretty green roaches!), they sound just perfect for a feeder colony. They definitely won't start an escapee base in a Canadian house as they are tropical/subtropical and need a lot of heat and humidity, won't last a cool night. Green bugs apparently are very attractive to chameleons. I've read on a couple other threads that even the most picky cham would eat these little guys.

the climbing and flying doesn't sound very great to deal with, but I used the nifty searchamabob and read on this forum:

"They like to be down in the substrate (even the adults) I never had any fly out of the container when I opened it."

however:

"I did find them difficult to feed if the chameleon did not "zap" them right away. They won't stay in a feeder cup and they are good hiders."

The fact that they're attracted to warmth and artificial lights like a moth should be helpful, (They'll head right for the beast!)?

Does anyone know what their growth rate is like? Or how many I would need in a colony to replace crickets as the staple for my adult panther cham as sayyy... 70% of his food source?

I realize that they are not quite as large as Dubia, and I will need to feed him more... individuals... but these bugs are so pretty I would make that sacrifice. I would almost WANT to show my tub of cockroaches to my friends! And I could always give away some little males to some friends with smaller lizards.

So there's The normal Green banana roach, M~14mm, F~24mm, (~1")
*Giant* Green Banana roach : males ~14mm, females ~38mm (~1.5")

I've read that they require practically exactly the same setup as Dubia + more humidity and soil substrate for nymphs to burrow in.

For the life of me I can't find anyone selling these to the Canadians! Any members near Toronto breeding some to sell/send??

And the fact that I'll have plenty of little males and nymphs will help me next year when Clementine is fully grown as I plan to get some Praying Mantis going too, and again, I won't want to deal with crickets all that much.

So whats the word? Anyone with first-hand experience?

I have been working on buying a couple hundred of these for a few weeks now. They seem to be very hard to come buy and even those that are selling them don't seem too interested in selling them off. Front what I have found they are about the size of large crickets so you would have to feed about the same amount. I think that Dubia's are MUCH easier to deal with but you are right the green color might just make them worth a colony

 

[Texas Panther Man]

I'd really like to know what areas in Texas these guys are found? Im a native Texan and Ive never seen one and Ive traveled all over our state. I dont think they're found here naturally. Unless someone let them escape and reproduce.

I keep dubia and I know for a fact they can and will survive texas winters. So anyone here be careful with your colony they can handle our mild winters and will reproduce if they escape.

 

[Ekaj13]

I love my dubia. Don't banana roaches lay eggs? That sounds like it would be a hassle. Dubia are almost care free.

 

[SSimsswiSS]

Go with Dubia.
P. Nivia are a very slow growing species. At lease to get adult sized feeders

 

[EvilLost]

I have been raising a dubia colony that I started on 2/26 of this year with 24 females and 6 males.

I keep them in a plastic tub with a large hole cut in the lid (i glued on some screen). I purchased a small $10 heating wire and wrap it around the tub to keep it nice and warm (roughly mid 80s with a small variant of course). I put in cricket chow and my leftover veggies whenever I have them and water crystals like every 3-5 days.


I would say my TOTAL cost on my dubia colony PER MONTH:
-$10 max for food/etc (after setup)
-30 minutes time

Today (6/14) I have roughly 400ish roaches and have been feeding out of my colony (5-10 per day) for about a week now; not entirely sure if I can permanently feed out of it just yet but its doinog ok...

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!!!!

PS: this was my first try. just make SURE YOU HAVE VENTILATION. I originally started my colony a week before in the same tub but with no ventilation (just a solid plastic lid) and found heavy condensation inside due to the heat coil evaporating some of the water crystals. Dubias HATE humidity.....also, secondary lesson learned: don't have your heat coil directly under your water crystals or you will waste many.

 

[JohnnyD]

Banana roaches tend to be very expensive as well. The last I saw them for sale they were $2 each.

 

[icegecko]

Ok, I've posted a good amount of info on this site about P. nivea- I think you may have quoted me. I'm concerned that i might wind up being known as the "the P. nivea guy"on this forum. As much as I like P. nivea, you can't have P. nivea as your only roach species. They are way too small. They are about the size of the last section of your finger (with the fingernail). I've started a culture of the giant variety which are larger, but the colony is taking a while as I bought only a couple dozen. They too are insufficient as a single staple, or even a secondary staple. I have Madagascan hissers and Banana roaches as my roach feeders. P. nivea just isn't meaty enough- you'd have to feed 20 to make a normal sized meal for an adult cham (and by that time he'd be sick of the roaches). They are not a substitute for staples such as hissers, dubia, crix, silks etc. They reproduce and maintain a colony well as long as you keep the coir substrate moist and the enclosure warm. Not gonna lie, I bought 300 P.nivea to establish my colony and it still took some time. I have a lot now, but I haven't counted exactly. As with all feeders that reproduce themselves, it's an investment.

P. nivae are light in weight, so they get past roach barrier in food container/cups. I learned the hard way that you're going to have to pretty much hand feed these guys. That's another reason you can't have them as a staple-you'd have to use so many each time that they would all get out of the food container. Also, your colony would be wiped out unless you had thousands of them. I use 6-10 P. nivea in conjunction with other feeders twice a week. I put 1-2 P.nivea on my hand and Mugestu eats them one after another until they are all eaten. Then I put the rest of the food (non P. nivea) in his food container. P. nivea are an appetizer. P. nivea fly, but it's usually no more than a power glide. And you should be able to tell when they are going to do it-it's just like how other roaches jump when they are on an edge to get to another surface. It's really not a big deal. They are fast, but no worse than any other small roach.

Clarkrw3, P. nivea are the easiest animal I've ever raised. They don't eat much, and all you have to do is mist one a day. Use a dish with water crystals and that's it. They don't destroy the egg carton like larger species do. The key to keeping the enclosure clean is adding lesser mealworm beetles (forgot the scientific name). They eat all the dead roaches and left over food so you don't have to clean anything - ever.

If you have any questions on P. nivea or G. portentosa, send me a pm or ask it here.

Your question is not whether you'll be getting dubias or p. nivea, but rather if you'll be getting dubias and P. nivea. Unless, of course, you already have a staple food source or two.

Phew, I should just write all of this on the forum's feeder page when I have time...

**If you have mantids as a pet (I have Java Shielded Mantids), P. nivea are great as a feeder!

 

[jessica]

I love my P. Nivia but I typically feed them to rescues who wont eat or little guys. Although all of my chameleons love them my adult panthers can easily pack 15-20 of em down and beg for more lol

I would start with Dubia or discoids especially if this is your first go at roaches.

 

[clarkrw3]

I try and keep as many different feeders as possible and have been working on getting several different colonies going. I already have a starter Dubia colony going. I started a little different with my Dubia colony by starting with 1200 nymphs. But They are growing fast!! Will mealworm beetles keep the Dubia colony clean too? How long do those beetles live? and do you buy them as beetles or do you pupate them from mealworms?
What do you recommend for a cage for P. Nivia? I am afraid that if I use a sterilite container they will get out I have been told a 10 gal aquarium but how do you keep it dark?

 

[icegecko]

Keep them in a sterilite container with two inches of coir substrate. Mix in a handfull or more of hydrated water crystals into the substrate to help keep up the humidity. Add a dish for food and one for water crystals. Put egg carton on the side opposite of the two dishes. Make sure to stack the egg cartons on top of each. The nymphs are brown and burrow, so you won't really see them much. The adults usually stay in the egg carton, so finding adults to feed off is easy. Use a lamp with a heat bulb (incandescent black/red bulbs are perfect and cheap). Cut a rectangle out of the sterilite lid (put the scissors under hot water before cutting-it helps with cutting the plastic). The use a glue gun to attach screen mesh to cover the rectangular hole. These guys need ventilation, but not too much-they like things humid. Add a good two inches of barrier to the inside top of the bin as an extra level of security. These guys have no problem climbing and can fly well.

Sterilite containers are the best (and cheapest) way to go for roaches. The plastic block out the light. Make sure you buy one that is opaque (mine are gray and work great). You don't need a big bin for these roaches-they like things a bit cramped.

 

[clarkrw3]

icegecko....Thanks so much for the info! So with the roach barrier you have had NO escapees? And is there a best type of roach barrier? With my Dubia's I have only put packing tape for a barrier and since they don't climb I just haven't worried about it.

 

[icegecko]

Roach barrier + sterilite lid = no escapes. Make sure you glue the screen on well. These guys can fit themselves anywhere. I get my roach barrier and roach food from Greg's Exotic Inverts- he's very informative and has good prices. His roach food is very high quality. Make sure to reapply the roach barrier once you see roaches climbing up it and getting halfway. Ultimately, you have a secure lid on the roach bin, so you have little to worry about. People who keep climbing roaches without a lid and get escapees kinda deserve it...

I hope this helps!

 

[dudeking]

Wow thanks everyone for all the wicked info!! Icegecko! Yeah you've been a fantastic source of information for all this, your posts are detailed and thought out, thank you!!

And yeah you're right, looks like BOTH is clearly the best way to go haha.

Looks like I'll be gettin a Dubia colony started asap! Yeah and I'll keep my eyes open for the little greenies if they're ever around up here!

 

[icegecko]

Glad to be of some help!

Check out www.roachcrossing.com and Greg's Exotic Inverts (google it). I swear by these two guys, they have everything you could ever need regarding roaches! If one doesn't have a species, the other does. You can email them with a billion questions, they will answer them all. Where do you think I learned what I know?

 

[mickeyratfink]

Has no one in continental America tried Turkistan Roaches (Blatta lateralis)?

A friend breeds these in the UK and they are very prolific, a lot more so than the banana roaches. He feeds his Bradypodions these as a main staple, with crix and other things added to the menu. Shame my missus won't allow them in the house!!

He did try to breed the banana roaches (didn't find them to be prolific breeders), but found the dubias and turks were a more reliable food source. Also, with the numbers produced, there is always ample supplies of differing food for different sized chams.

I've tried banana roaches, dubias and turkistans with my chameleons and they were just not interested after taking the first one.

 

[clarkrw3]

Anyone have any info or experience with horseshoe crab roaches? They are pretty cool!

 

[icegecko]

Hm, they look a lot like red and black roaches, which I keep a few of with my P. nivea. They're cool, but really slow breeders. Also, it looks like they have some serious spikes on their hind legs which could be painful to your cham. I'd email Greg to see if they are good for feeders.

 

[clarkrw3]

Hm, they look a lot like red and black roaches, which I keep a few of with my P. nivea. They're cool, but really slow breeders. Also, it looks like they have some serious spikes on their hind legs which could be painful to your cham. I'd email Greg to see if they are good for feeders.

Emailed Greg. What a GREAT guy answered all my questions and fast. He seemed to think the nymphs would be no problem the have much less defined spikes the adults might even be fine but for large chams. He knows people that feed them off just doesn't know anyone with cham's that do.
Also said he would be having some banana roaches in a bit.

 

[icegecko]

That's fantastic! Glad things are working out for you. Keep us updatedw ith the horseshoe roaches-I'm thinking about getting some porcelain roaches from Greg in the future.